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  #41  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 5:31 AM
austlar1 austlar1 is offline
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I guess some HQ operations are just more significant than others. ExxonMobil has nominally been headquartered in Irving for two decades or so. I don't think the HQ staff there ever exceeded 300 people. Almost all significant activities that might be associated with a HQ operation were taking place in the Houston area or in major financial centers like New York. Boeing HQ in Chicago has/had a headcount of about 400 people and never contributed much to the Chicago economy. Irving/Dallas and Chicago are not going to notice much of a change after losing HQ status. Oracle named Austin their HQ a year or two ago. Oracle had already created several thousand jobs at their new Austin campus, and supposedly that number was set to double as a result of the HQ relocation. Sounds impressive, and I guess it is. Still, I wonder how much WFH is going to impact these plans. I am more and more convinced that the conventional office work model has been turned upside down. Covid was just the catalyst to speed up this process which was well underway before the pandemic.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by R1070 View Post
Yep. I work in Las Colinas.
Rumors are Wells Fargo could be moving their HQ here. If not the global HQ then a large office with over 5K employees.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...outputType=amp
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  #43  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 9:52 PM
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DFW and NoVA are unquestionably the top two Fortune 500 poachers / relocation cities.

Off the top of my head, LA has lost the following to those two metros:

Northrop Grumman (NoVA)
CB Richard Ellis (DFW)
AECOM (DFW)
Jacobs Engineering Group (DFW)
Computer Sciences Corporation (NoVA, now defunct)
Fluor Corporation (DFW)
Hilton Hotels Corporation (NoVA, no longer in F500)

Plus several regional HQs.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2022, 1:39 AM
Don't Be That Guy Don't Be That Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
Philadelphia has 6 Fortune 1000s in the city limits, so Diamondpark was slightly off.

Still, your point stands. Philadelphia city limits has an awful business tax structure. Despite constant pressure from Philadelphia business leaders to change the tax structure, Philadelphia City Council is so thick-headed and uninterested it’s gross.

There are 35 fortune 1000 companies in the Philadelphia metro in 2022, and only 6 are in the city. Missed opportunity much?
Philly has one of, if not the largest, reverse commuting populations in the country. A shocking number of people who live in the city limits commute out to work in the suburbs. The tax structure in that city is indeed ridiculous and anti-business.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2022, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy View Post
Philly has one of, if not the largest, reverse commuting populations in the country. A shocking number of people who live in the city limits commute out to work in the suburbs. The tax structure in that city is indeed ridiculous and anti-business.
That's not a tax structure issue, it's a scapegoat. Detroit almost certainly has a higher percentage of city residents that reverse commute and they always scapegoat the city tax structure but that's nonsense.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2022, 5:23 PM
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Well, minus one for Chicagoland.

Caterpillar is moving their HQ from Deerfield, IL to Irving, TX.

It's a similar move to Boeing's recent exit, as the actual HQ in Deerfield was quite small, mainly just the C-suite and support staff, the vast majority of ops are located elsewhere.

The company's time being HQ'd out of Chicagoland was very shortlived, as they had just moved the big-wigs up to Deerfield from downstate Peoria (the company's ancestral hometown since its founding over a century ago) only 5 years ago.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jun 14, 2022 at 6:10 PM.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2022, 5:34 PM
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^Yeah. . . I read that today and completely forgot they moved their HQ to Deerfield. . .

. . .
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  #48  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2022, 6:03 PM
austlar1 austlar1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
Rumors are Wells Fargo could be moving their HQ here. If not the global HQ then a large office with over 5K employees.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...outputType=amp
Article is almost a year old. Did Wells Fargo seal the deal?
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  #49  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2022, 8:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasPlaya View Post
Fortune 1000

Bay Area ( SF + San Jose + Santa Clara) = 46

Houston metro ( Houston + Spring) = 40

Dallas metro (Dallas + Irving) = 30

I would imagine Houston numbers increase the next few years then start dropping precipitously in the 2030s if not late 2020s.
Why would Houston's start to drop? I assume you think the energy companies will lose value, but so far they continue to innovate. Look at crown castle that is the largest 5G installer in the nation. They used to only contract with oil companies. Then you have others like Academy which went public and entered the Fortune list. Plus Houston will still have the ability to be attractive for relocations and is a city that makes new companies that become valuable.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2022, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austlar1 View Post
Article is almost a year old. Did Wells Fargo seal the deal?
More recent article

Quote:
Dallas developer KDC and architect GFF have filed for zoning changes in Irving to build the project called North Shore. The more than 30-acre site at Las Colinas Boulevard and Promenade Parkway is the largest vacant development tract in the Las Colinas Urban Center.

Since last summer, Irving officials have been working to land Project Falcon — the code name for Wells Fargo’s North Texas office search.

Real estate brokers have identified the North Shore site as the bank’s top choice for a new Dallas-Fort Worth office center.
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...-fargo-campus/
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  #51  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 2:59 PM
JMKeynes JMKeynes is offline
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Caterpillar: Moving HQ from Chicagoland to Dallas

In yet another blow to Chicago…

Texas, by contrast, is booming.

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/stor...ea-11655224397

Caterpillar to move headquarters to Texas from Illinois in fresh blow to the Chicago area

First Published: June 14, 2022 at 12:33 p.m. ET
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  #52  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 3:21 PM
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The biggest loser in this game of corporate hop-scotch is Peoria, Caterpillar's hometown for roughly a century.

Prior to moving the C-suite up to Deerfield just 5 short years ago, the company was actually planning to build a very expensive and fancy new HQ building in Peoria, which would have represented a sizeable investment in, and solid commitment to, the small downstate IL city. But then they flipped the script at the last moment and decided to abandon those plans and instead moved around 200 employees (top-level execs + support staff) up to a random and anonymous suburban office park in Deerfield, IL.

And now another decision to move down to another random suburban office park in Texas.


Here's what could have been in Peoria, a city that really could have used a shot in the arm like this:


Source: https://www.mining.com/caterpillar-w...uarters-33807/


Oh well.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jun 15, 2022 at 6:01 PM.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 4:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
In yet another blow to Chicago…

Texas, by contrast, is booming.

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/stor...ea-11655224397

Caterpillar to move headquarters to Texas from Illinois in fresh blow to the Chicago area

First Published: June 14, 2022 at 12:33 p.m. ET
Corporate relocations to Texas have actually slowed down significantly in 2022. Local business leaders are spinning it as a 'lull' but who knows?

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/n...ns-dallas.html
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  #54  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 5:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
In yet another blow to Chicago…

Texas, by contrast, is booming.

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/stor...ea-11655224397

Caterpillar to move headquarters to Texas from Illinois in fresh blow to the Chicago area

First Published: June 14, 2022 at 12:33 p.m. ET
It's getting crazy and really to much between DFW, Austin, Houston.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 6:13 PM
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I am baffled by the inability of Chicago - a real city - to compete with the Texas blobs.

I fear that the total nonsense in Chicago government and the Illinois Statehouse is single-handedly sinking the place. Chicago was able to plow ahead in the postwar decades in spite of its political machinery since it had the air travel advantage over all other cities between the coasts. But someone based in Texas is also able to fly commercial relatively quickly to either Los Angeles or New York City.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 6:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
I am baffled by the inability of Chicago - a real city - to compete with the Texas blobs.

I fear that the total nonsense in Chicago government and the Illinois Statehouse is single-handedly sinking the place. Chicago was able to plow ahead in the postwar decades in spite of its political machinery since it had the air travel advantage over all other cities between the coasts. But someone based in Texas is also able to fly commercial relatively quickly to either Los Angeles or New York City.
Caterpillar was in Deerfield (an amorphous blob analagous to Irving) for a few years after decamping from Peoria.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Caterpillar was in Deerfield (an amorphous blob analagous to Irving) for a few years after decamping from Peoria.
Yeah, but why the move to Texas? I understand why businesses move from smaller, struggling cities to bigger cities where they're better able to recruit to. When NCR left Dayton, OH for Atlanta, it sucked for Dayton, but made sense for the company. What advantage does some gross suburb of Dallas have over Chicago or its suburbs?

I can't really feel bad for Chicago losing businesses to other places, though. Chicago has poached numerous businesses away from their traditional homes, so I guess what goes around comes around to some extent.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
Yeah, but why the move to Texas? I understand why businesses move from smaller, struggling cities to bigger cities where they're better able to recruit to. When NCR left Dayton, OH for Atlanta, it sucked for Dayton, but made sense for the company. What advantage does some gross suburb of Dallas have over Chicago or its suburbs?

I can't really feel bad for Chicago losing businesses to other places, though. Chicago has poached numerous businesses away from their traditional homes, so I guess what goes around comes around to some extent.
It's a good question. I feel like good talent would stay away from Las Colinas if they could help it, but there's no accounting for taste...
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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
Chicago has poached numerous businesses away from their traditional homes, so I guess what goes around comes around to some extent.
indeed.

and neither Boeing nor Caterpillar were ever truly "chicago" companies with any real history or legacy in this town. they both came to town as small little c-suite offices with the big fancy impressive "HQ" on the front door (boeing lured by tax breaks that then expired and so they skipped town, and caterpillar came ostensibly for ORD, but then decided that DFW is just as good and puts them in texas where more of their customers are), but over 95% of actual company ops remained elsewhere.

it goes back to this post by ocman:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocman View Post
At this point Fortune 500 city lists is now just a game of luring other cities'/states’ headquarters with cash and tax incentives. It’s not even real anymore. Companies avoiding taxes by relocating like 2% of their company. It’s paper.
Boeing and Caterpillar having "chicago" HQ's was good PR "feather in the cap" stuff for our local civic booster orgs, but neither one ever had any serious footprint here.

the loses are more symbolic than anything, not that it doesn't mean that they don't still sting. when boeing left seattle it was seen as some huge coup, but in the end all it ever really gave chicago was the ability to say "hey, look, we have the HQ of Boeing!!!" even though that never really meant a great deal, what with their relatively small 300-person office space downtown.

now if an company like Mcdonald's or Mondelez left chicago entirely (meaning all of it, not just a couple hundred c-suiters), THAT would do some serious damage.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 6:56 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
What advantage does some gross suburb of Dallas have over Chicago or its suburbs?
Toyota moved its North American HQ from a NKY suburb to Plano back in 2016 or thereabouts. That move actually made some sense since Delta moved its hub from Cincinnati to Detroit. But Chicago's air connections are similar if not better than Dallas's.

Meanwhile, Nissan moved its North American HQ to...suburban Nashville (across from a shopping mall). Nashville's never had a hub operation or international flights.

This is what's so frustrating about all of this - the Richard Florida, etc., predictions for cities only play out in some examples. There is always an example of success (or failure) in the exact opposite circumstance. There is no rhyme or reason to any of it.
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