PHILADELPHIA | THE LAUREL @ 1911 Walnut | 604 FT | 48 FLOORS

[mja]

Originally Posted by 1487

I think people fighting to stop a highway that would displace thousands is a little different from people who try to stop building from going up because it may affect their views or because they dont want more congestion in an already urban neighborhood. I don't think the two groups deserve to get placed in the same category.

These aren't two distinct groups. The people generally fighting tall buildings are also the people fighting billboards are also the people fighting strip malls are also the people fighting expressways. Sometimes they're on the right side of the argument, sometimes they're not. Now, I'm not defending the current dynamic, but people here tend to be overly dismissive of the concerns of near neighbors. I agree that they've hurt development in the city in many cases, but they've also improved it at times, too.

[1487]

Originally Posted by mja

These aren't two distinct groups. The people generally fighting tall buildings are also the people fighting billboards are also the people fighting strip malls are also the people fighting expressways. Sometimes they're on the right side of the argument, sometimes they're not. Now, I'm not defending the current dynamic, but people here tend to be overly dismissive of the concerns of near neighbors. I agree that they've hurt development in the city in many cases, but they've also improved it at times, too.

There are 2 sides to almost every proposed development. Stopping a highway from replacing thousands of homes is one thing, stopping buildings because you don't want traffic to increase or because you like a certain view corridor doesn't impress me as much. And I'm not aware of many recent instances where fierce opposition to prominent projects has actually left the area much better off. I still believe the Phillies and the city wouldve benefited more from a stadium near CC vs the current location but there was vehement opposition from neighbors. Same with the proposed 8th/market location for a casino which had a ton of opposition because of proximity to Chinatown.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by mja

These aren't two distinct groups. The people generally fighting tall buildings are also the people fighting billboards are also the people fighting strip malls are also the people fighting expressways.

No.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by mja

These aren't two distinct groups. The people generally fighting tall buildings are also the people fighting billboards are also the people fighting strip malls are also the people fighting expressways. Sometimes they're on the right side of the argument, sometimes they're not. Now, I'm not defending the current dynamic, but people here tend to be overly dismissive of the concerns of near neighbors. I agree that they've hurt development in the city in many cases, but they've also improved it at times, too.

I don't think that's true. I chain myself to a building if they tried to build an expressway through my neighborhood or any other neighborhood anywhere near mine because I recognize it is awful for the city as a whole, but I hate people who fight tall buildings for the most part. Their reasons are selfish.

[1487]

Originally Posted by br323206

I don't think that's true. I chain myself to a building if they tried to build an expressway through my neighborhood or any other neighborhood anywhere near mine because I recognize it is awful for the city as a whole, but I hate people who fight tall buildings for the most part. Their reasons are selfish.

I think its interesting how people can live in or around CC and then oppose new projects that they feel will add too much traffic or too much activity to their specific area. Same with people wanting shorter buildings near their residence in spite of the fact they chose to live in the downtown area in a major city. This is similar to people in the suburbs who move to an area and then fight like hell to make sure no more developments are built because any population growth after they got there is supposedly going to ruin the character of the area.

[mja]

Don't get me wrong.

I've been vocal in meetings supporting the building of a tower in my neighborhood only to be suspiciously called out as a plant of the developer by people literally scared of shadows. I've seen neighborhood groups actively hurt the city firsthand. That doesn't mean that these groups shouldn't have some sort of say in what happens near them, however. There needs to be a balance, which I'll agree we don't have right now. I don't think they should be able to hold up a development through lawsuits, etc. I do think they should have some input (and just that, input, not authority) in use & design. I mean, we can all agree that the Piazza is better than another Blatstein strip mall special, right? That's thanks to NIMBYs.

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

Originally Posted by mja

Don't get me wrong.

I've been vocal in meetings supporting the building of a tower in my neighborhood only to be suspiciously called out as a plant of the developer by people literally scared of shadows. I've seen neighborhood groups actively hurt the city firsthand. That doesn't mean that these groups shouldn't have some sort of say in what happens near them, however. There needs to be a balance, which I'll agree we don't have right now. I don't think they should be able to hold up a development through lawsuits, etc. I do think they should have some input (and just that, input, not authority) in use & design. I mean, we can all agree that the Piazza is better than another Blatstein strip mall special, right? That's thanks to NIMBYs.

Right...which distinguishes NIMBYs from simply people who are involved in their neighborhood group/registered community organization (RCO). Different RCOs have completely different character and aims. Also one must remember some are parochially interventionist while some are also parochially non-interventionist (think of the proliferation of G-Ho stucco "bay windows"...)

[iheartphilly]

If SLC could put something like this on Rittenhouse Square, it would be awesome...

[url=https://flic.kr/p/zUbBGY] [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/128450769@N08/]

[McBane]

The problem with NIMBYs is that they have been empowered by elected officials. How many times have we seen the local councilman tell developers, "I'll support your plan after you work our the details with the community." Basically, city council has outsourced city planning to the NIMBYs. And Council never thinks about lost revenue when NIMBYs demand shorter towers and fewer units.

The tower in the previous post is nice but the NIMBYs would never allow it. See paragraph above.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

If SLC could put something like this on Rittenhouse Square, it would be awesome...

Dare we dream...the impossible Dream?

My gut...my sinking feeling...is we're going to get a glorified Philly Special. A little bit nicer, a little bit taller, than your traditional Special...but a very straight forward, uninspired design nonetheless.

Hope I'm wrong...

[Williard Mouse]

Originally Posted by McBane

The problem with NIMBYs is that they have been empowered by elected officials. How many times have we seen the local councilman tell developers, "I'll support your plan after you work our the details with the community." Basically, city council has outsourced city planning to the NIMBYs. And Council never thinks about lost revenue when NIMBYs demand shorter towers and fewer units.

The tower in the previous post is nice but the NIMBYs would never allow it. See paragraph above.

Amen.

[kraggman]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

If SLC could put something like this on Rittenhouse Square, it would be awesome...

[url=https://flic.kr/p/zUbBGY] [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/128450769@N08/]

What a cool building !!!

[boxbot]

Originally Posted by kraggman

What a cool building !!!

And yet, the NIMBYs in New York hate 56 Leonard. NIMBYism is everywhere.

[jsbrook]

Hmm...love 56 Leonard (but might love a building like 30 Park Place for that Rittenhouse lot even more). What are construction costs for a building like 56 Leonard? Much more than 500 Walnut of 1706 Rittenhouse? Probably. One key reason it is hard to get buildings like that in Philly or most any U.S. city that is not New York is that it's hard to charge prices for units that make it a financially good investment for the developer.

[1487]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Hmm...love 56 Leonard (but might love a building like 30 Park Place for that Rittenhouse lot even more). What are construction costs for a building like 56 Leonard? Much more than 500 Walnut of 1706 Rittenhouse? Probably. One key reason it is hard to get buildings like that in Philly or most any U.S. city that is not New York is that it's hard to charge prices for units that make it a financially good investment for the developer.

exactly.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Dare we dream...the impossible Dream?

My gut...my sinking feeling...is we're going to get a glorified Philly Special. A little bit nicer, a little bit taller, than your traditional Special...but a very straight forward, uninspired design nonetheless.

Hope I'm wrong...

We need to stop calling those buildings "Philly Specials." Uninspired architecture is not unique to Philadelphia. If anything, Philadelphia is worlds ahead of most places in the U.S.

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

If SLC could put something like this on Rittenhouse Square, it would be awesome...

[url=https://flic.kr/p/zUbBGY] [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/128450769@N08/]

Agreed . A really interesting design . How about I take your statement one step
further and say a duplicate of this baby at 8th.& Market .

I don't recognize it's location ...... Where is this beauty located .

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by br323206

We need to stop calling those buildings "Philly Specials." Uninspired architecture is not unique to Philadelphia. If anything, Philadelphia is worlds ahead of most places in the U.S.

Thank you. I don't know why many folks insist on defining this city as "not New York." Our younger sibling to the north did the urban equivalent of getting a better paying job. NYC drives a BMW, we drive a loaded VW. That's life. Except, perhaps, for Chicago, some other cities may have gotten lucky with (at most) a handful of unique towers, but I fail to see how that differentiates them from Philadelphia - which stands head and shoulders above them on so many levels. Maybe we should call most non-New York buildings "American Specials" since the Chinese and Arabs are building most of the flamboyant stuff nowadays.

[Knight Hospitaller]

To quote my late Irish-American mum: "Let's not borrow trouble." We can have a collective ulcer (if justified) when the 1911 renderings are released. No sense in doing it over imagined deficiencies and prospective NIMBYism.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Outta here

Agreed . A really interesting design . How about I take your statement one step
further and say a duplicate of this baby at 8th.& Market .

I don't recognize it's location ...... Where is this beauty located .

I love the design myself. If you take a look at it from different angles, it looks like the game, Jenga. Yes, 8 and market would also work for me.

The bldg is located in the Tribeca neighborhood of NYC. There's 80 some units-10 or 15 are penthouses. Last I hear, the lowest unit costs $3.5 million. The most expensive unit is $50 million. And, I think it's close to selling out if not sold out already.