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  #1041  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 10:15 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
Very much agree.
And it's not just Philly and its burbs. Lehigh County is blue-er than many of Philadelphia's suburban counties. Rather than this sea of red in and around Philadelphia and Allegheny Counties, I see nodes of blue emerging. Aside from Centre and Erie Counties, I see the Lehigh Valley continuing to urbanize and I see the affluence in South Central PA forming a sub-region that will become an economic power in its own right. In the not too distant future, I think Dauphin and Cumberland Counties will be reliably center-left in the way Lehigh and Northampton are. I also see Lancaster County being less conservative than it is today. I don't see it turning blue in my lifetime but I see it becoming more educated and affluent and the sort of place where Democrats can narrow the margin to 5-7 points as opposed to the blowouts they used to receive there. Trump won Lancaster County by only 13 points. It's hardly the rural backwater other counties in PA are where he won by 70 points.
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  #1042  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 11:47 PM
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This aspect of Philadelphia's relationship with it's suburbs is getting better for sure. You have the generation of suburbanites (i.e. Baby Boomers) who super charged white flight to the suburbs and spent unnecessary and counterproductive energy opposing everything having anything to do with Philadelphia dying off and being replaced by younger generations who by and large have mostly positive memories and experiences with the city.

Further, as evidenced by the recent election, the tilt of the suburbs leftward to me signifies a sort of regional mindset...one that is less so the burbs versus Philadelphia, but moreso SE PA (and the Lehigh Valley for that matter) versus everybody else.

While that might make things harder at the state level, I think it bodes well for regional thinking and planning which will only make Philadelphia stronger in the long run.
I must say 3rd & Brown we don't see eye to eye on everything, but I agree with you 100% here.

Hopefully the whole aTri-state can start working together and improving things for everyone in the area.
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  #1043  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2021, 1:21 AM
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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
I agree with some of this. Yes, the state and city are to blame for a lot of Philadelphia's issues and general stagnant growth. It also confuses me why the state holds Philadelphia back, in reality, Philadelphia is by far the largest city (and region) in the state, therefore allowing it to excel will only benefit the entire state. I know its a conservative vs. liberal match, but I am looking at this from a simple common sense standpoint.
I think it's much more complex than just liberal vs. conservative, Democrat vs. Republican. The fact of the matter that PA is held back by a lot of the autocrats and technocrats that occupy Harrisburg. And while many of those autocrats and technocrats may be mostly Republican, the fact that the Democrats in the city and the five-county region can't come with any solutions to help this region grow economically, financially, physically, and aesthetically is a testament to the lack of vision and urgency that has plagued the city, region, and state.https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20200326.html

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The second half of your post I don't agree with. Yes, Philadelphia is falling in the population ranks, but that is generally an irrelevant and highly circumstantial criteria of measuring a city's success. For example, you could fit 3 Philadelphia regions into 1 Phoenix region. And Phoenix (as far as I am concerned) is largely economically and culturally irrelevant when matched against Philadelphia.
Phoenix may be culturally and economically irrelevant than Philly, but one thing Phoenix has that Philly wished it currently has is population growth and give it 20 more years, and if Phoenix can sustain it's growth, and greatly improve it's infrastructure, as well as make improvements to it's cultural and educational offerings, and Phoenix may compete with the Chicagos and the Bostons and the SFs of the world.

I didn't say Phoenix will become this booming cosmopolitan metropolis, but it does have more human capital than Philadelphia at the moment, and although Philly does have more colleges, universities, hospitals, cultural offerings, museums, historical sites, and our transit system is slightly better than Phoenix, I won't doubt the Phoenixes, the San Antonios, the Fort Worths, the Austins, and the San Joses that they will be the "it cities" of the 21st century.

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Second, Philadelphia and its suburbs to this day have remained extremely relevant economically, culturally, institutionally, and historically, that is not changing. The only difference is that other cities have caught up. But, I still cannot find an legitimate argument that would paint Philadelphia as somehow inferior to Phoenix, Miami, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, etc.
Nowadays, Houston and Dallas are eating Philly's lunch when it comes to economics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global...h_Network#Beta) and business and Dallas practically took one of our storied companies (Sunoco) away from us after being here for over 100+ years. Atlanta and Miami aren't going to surpass us in the city population, but they will surpass Philadelphia in the MSA and the CSA. There's just not enough population growth nowadays to sustain Philadelphia as a Top 10 metro. (MSA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_areas CSA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combin...tistical_areas)

However, I do see similarities with other metros like NYC, Chicago, Detroit, and LA. Along with Philadelphia in 1950, those cities compromised the Top 5 American cities. The rest of the Top 10 cities in 1950 are Baltimore, Cleveland, St Louis, Washington, and Boston. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950_U...#City_rankings) Baltimore was a port hub and major manufacturing center during it's heyday, and it's importance in comparison to DC was higher than DC, now those roles have reversed. Cleveland and St Louis also had huge manufacturing presences, and St Louis was renowned for it's aerospace industry. Washington DC was never a manufacturing center and Boston only had light manufacturing, and a seaport.

Once manufacturing went overseas, Baltimore, Cleveland, and St Louis fell the most, their local economies were never the same after that while Washington DC and Boston were able to rebound starting in the 2000s. It also helps that DC and Boston are the national and state capital, respectively, meaning that there are more people with college degrees in those cities than Baltimore, Cleveland, and St Louis.

Detroit at one point was the fourth largest city in 1940, and ended up being the fifth largest once LA surpassed it. Detroit had the largest amount of manufacturing than any American city, with automobiles being the largest sector, but there was also petroleum refining, steel plants, and warehousing. Detroit did also have a smaller banking industry, hosted a major pharmaceutical company (Parke-Davis), brewing (Stroh), and it even had it's own stock exchange.

LA later surpassed Philadelphia in 1960. But unlike Philly, Detroit suffered from a major riot in 1967, which accelerated the suburbanization of Detroit, as well as missing an opportunity to host the Olympics in 1968 to Mexico City, rampant deindustrialization in the 1970s and 1980s, the Japanese overtaking American automakers in the 1980s, and crime waves which plagued Detroit from the 1970s onward.

Also, Detroit never really had the prestigious hospitals and universities that Philadelphia has been blessed. The closest Detroit has as far as prestigious universities goes is Wayne State and I believe the best hospital in Detroit is Henry Ford Hospital. However, in 1950, both cities, along with St Louis, and believe it or not, Baltimore and Cleveland were regarded as world-class as well as Pittsburgh. But deindustrialization and suburbanization kicked the bottoms of all American cities from the 1970s onward. Nowadays those 1950 Top 10 American cities are what is called as "legacy cities".

But what could've really saved Philadelphia was maintaining SEPTA's commuter rail system from Philly to Allentown, Reading, Lancaster, and West Chester, further expansion of our subway system like what other cities are currently doing, lower business taxed to compete with NYC, Chicago, and Boston, immigration, and keeping hi-tech jobs here in Philadelphia as opposed to see many of those hi-tech jobs go to Silicon Valley (any Philadelphia was actually the birthplace of the original computer, at that).

Also, losing companies like Sunoco and Sovereign/Santander doesn't help the economic reputation of a city. We did have up to 8 Fortune 500 companies in 2010, we're down to two today (Comcast and Aramark). And a lot of posters here piss on the Fortune 500 as if it's not relevant today as it was back then but it's an indicator as to how cities are doing economically as well as the economic health of companies and corporations, which is why I see proposals like Schuylkill Yards and 30th St Station District as really more pie-in-the-sky than a reality waiting to happen even though I like both projects but I won't be surprised if one of those projects never happen or it changes drastically like what's currently happening with SY.

Lastly, back to the 2020 Census estimates, Philadelphia will slip to San Antonio, at the very least not because SA is a better city or it has better food or people, but the economic potential in TX and the lower taxes in that state, as well as other cities like Austin and Fort Worth is currently outperforming cities like Chicago. Don't be surprised if Houston surpasses Chicago if not by 2020, definitely within this decade. I'm not saying all this to be the bearer of bad news for Philadelphia and PA, but the writing is already on the wall and the only people who were responsible is the city council, the mayor, the state reps and senators, all the way to the governor. And had the powers that be don't their job to offer better incentives and better quality of life for this city, the SY and 30th St proposals would've been a reality by now.


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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
And pre-Covid (2019), Philadelphia was kicking ass from an economic growth standpoint, GDP and job growth on par with some of the other large cities you mentioned, GDP per capita higher than many other major metros, venture capital was at record rates, tourism at record rates, investment very much picking up, poverty decreasing and was on track to inch below Houston, etc. Philadelphia was not a ho-hum dreary city that you paint it out to be. Yes the city has a lot of problems and Covid certainly pushed progress back, but I have no doubt the city will continue to grow and improve its reputation.

The only hindrance (which we can agree on) is crappy, shortsighted leadership. If Philadelphians could elect visionary leaders, then the sky is the limit for future potential. I always say Philadelphia is a world class city held back by crappy leadership.
I have never said the city was a ho-hum dreary city. I did say that Philly was a growing, vibrant city with many problems. Our school system is currently in shambles, corruption is still rampant here although not at the same level like Chicago, our mass transit system won't expand and grow, 25% of the population is below poverty levels, a mayor that seems to not really care about the profile and reputation of the city to domestic and foreign interests, and many others ad nauseam. We all want Philly to grow to it's former glory, but you can't place a city as "world-class" when to continue to ignore the problems that's holding you back.

The best athletes are the ones that are the most critical of themselves. Peyton Manning has always been critical of himself even when he wins which is the reason why he has so many passing records and Tom Brady is critical of himself when it matters the most, which is how he won so many Super Bowls. Bill Belichick is nowadays considered the best coach in football, and even when he wins, he still finds room to critique the little things his team does wrong. Even Michael Jordan pushed himself to be the best when he already was considered the best basketball player in the world and it went so far as pushing Pippen and Grant and many other of his teammates because Jordan wanted the Bulls, as well as himself to be the best at whatever he was doing.

It's no different when you're running cities. Even NYC, which is the biggest city in America and one of the most important cities in the world, still finds itself with problems (gentrification, high rents and taxes, a declining population nowadays, COVID-19, inept leadership for the mayor to the governor), but it remains number for a reason.

The only way Philadelphia remains at the top is that it has to start being critical at itself rather than just drinking the Kool-Aid and saying that "Philly is great because we have cheesesteaks, hoagies, Wawa, and the Mummers". You have to move past the cheesesteaks and hoagies and improve in other areas if you're going to compete.

Everybody nowadays wants to have the next South Beach or be the next Silicon Valley. Philadelphia needs to discover a niche and hoard it from the rest of America for now. Pharmaceuticals seemed to be a niche Philly could've had but GSK left town, so maybe bioengineering will be the final frontier.


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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
Also, luckily, Philadelphia has some very powerful and affluent suburbs, not many other suburban regions pack that level of punch. Not everyone will agree, but that is a huge asset that aids Philadelphia (and the state) in many ways. I would just like to see a more unified Philadelphia region team going forward.
We can only see what Philly has in store for the near future. The 2020 Census is coming soon and I can't wait to see what position this city is currently in.
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  #1044  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2021, 7:05 AM
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  #1045  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2021, 7:23 PM
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Checking in on Riverwalk in the Snow





Read/view more here:
http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phill...riverwalk-snow
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  #1046  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2021, 10:32 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by wanderer34 View Post

Nowadays, Houston and Dallas are eating Philly's lunch when it comes to economics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global...h_Network#Beta) and business and Dallas practically took one of our storied companies (Sunoco) away from us after being here for over 100+ years. Atlanta and Miami aren't going to surpass us in the city population, but they will surpass Philadelphia in the MSA and the CSA. There's just not enough population growth nowadays to sustain Philadelphia as a Top 10 metro. (MSA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_areas CSA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combin...tistical_areas)


Also, losing companies like Sunoco and Sovereign/Santander doesn't help the economic reputation of a city. We did have up to 8 Fortune 500 companies in 2010, we're down to two today (Comcast and Aramark). And a lot of posters here piss on the Fortune 500 as if it's not relevant today as it was back then but it's an indicator as to how cities are doing economically as well as the economic health of companies and corporations, which is why I see proposals like Schuylkill Yards and 30th St Station District as really more pie-in-the-sky than a reality waiting to happen even though I like both projects but I won't be surprised if one of those projects never happen or it changes drastically like what's currently happening with SY.

I have never said the city was a ho-hum dreary city. I did say that Philly was a growing, vibrant city with many problems. Our school system is currently in shambles, corruption is still rampant here although not at the same level like Chicago, our mass transit system won't expand and grow, 25% of the population is below poverty levels, a mayor that seems to not really care about the profile and reputation of the city to domestic and foreign interests, and many others ad nauseam. We all want Philly to grow to it's former glory, but you can't place a city as "world-class" when to continue to ignore the problems that's holding you back.

Everybody nowadays wants to have the next South Beach or be the next Silicon Valley. Philadelphia needs to discover a niche and hoard it from the rest of America for now. Pharmaceuticals seemed to be a niche Philly could've had but GSK left town, so maybe bioengineering will be the final frontier.

We can only see what Philly has in store for the near future. The 2020 Census is coming soon and I can't wait to see what position this city is currently in.
I haven't had time to read your entire post thoroughly, but a few things that jumped out for a quick reply...

1. Philadelphia has ~12 Fortune 500s, plus several large private companies (Vanguard and Wawa for example). I know most of these are in the burbs, but it still counts toward Philadelphia, because when you look at most major cities, several of the fortunes are also outside of city limits.

That being said, 2 actually in the city is still not impressive and a sign of how the city has fallen in economic competitiveness. But according to Helen Gym, everything is fine...

2. I hate world ranking lists, they are highly bias and contain odd and dramatic changes with each release (every 2 or so years). But I will say Philadelphia, Atlanta, Houston and Dallas are all in close ranking and Philadelphia actually jumped a few spots in recent rankings while the others maintained or lowered (notably Houston). Aside from Covid fallout, I see Philadelphia maintaining its standing with the other 3, and potentially gaining ground.

3. As of February 2020 (right before Covid), Philadelphia poverty rate was 23.5%, well below 25% AND I was studying some trajectories, if rates kept similar, Philadelphia would likely dip below Houston within the next decade, FINALLY giving away the title as America's poorest big city. Now that Covid hit, who knows...

4. Philadelphia's future success is largely related to life sciences, which is a major bright spot for the city and region economy. I am still waiting on leaders to realize that and cater to it... Comcast could also increase Philadelphia's presence in entertainment and media, but that is a different discussion.

5. While I want to see population grow quicker, it is still a positive that population in the city and region is growing (slowly), many other legacy cities are losing people. I still do no find that super relevant, because its not as simple as Philadelphia is growing slower than Dallas, therefore its not as healthy.

I too am excited for the census and future data, and Philadelphia has all the bones in place to grow, but once again, leadership....
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  #1047  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 12:23 AM
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Their is a new revolution happening in Philly and it's not political . It 's in Biology and it's not in personalized medicine . The new bio rev is a completely different way of understanding cell biology through quantum field effects . Current knowledge in cell biology is insufficient to understand the workings in complex cells . Only basic research in cell biology at atomic scale and the field effects which will a much better understanding .
It will require millions of ft^2 lab space and collaboration with physics dept. , math and biology depts. .
At some point in the not to distance future biologist may be at a place where a non DNA and non carbon based cell , ie silicon based and man made algorithm , be created .
Last year just to our south two universities in Baltimore ,Hopkins and U of Md. received one billion each in basic research funding while Philly Universities were granted only one billion . Philly sciences are being way under funded . Temple in particular by the state and Feds . Philadelphia has a large role in the future of cell biology and needs millions more sq. ft . of lab space and billions more in funding .
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  #1048  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 4:10 AM
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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
I haven't had time to read your entire post thoroughly, but a few things that jumped out for a quick reply...

1. Philadelphia has ~12 Fortune 500s, plus several large private companies (Vanguard and Wawa for example). I know most of these are in the burbs, but it still counts toward Philadelphia, because when you look at most major cities, several of the fortunes are also outside of city limits.
Lincoln Financial, Crown Holdings, and UGI left the city for the PA suburbs, Sunoco, GSK, and Sovereign/Santander left for other cities, Rohm and Haas was acquired by Dow, and our only legacy company that's HQ in the city, Pepboys became a subsidiary for Icahn Enterprises of NYC.

I was referring to companies with the Philly city limits. I know you included the Philly metro area, but we have up to 8 companies in 2010, and now we're down to just two and I'm not sure what the future of Aramark holds, especially since I hope that by downsizing from the old Aramark Tower and moving nearby the Schuykill isn't a harbinger for things to come because rarely do you see companies downsize from their skyscraper HQ unless it means that there getting ready to either move out to the suburbs or elsewhere. We'll see!

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That being said, 2 actually in the city is still not impressive and a sign of how the city has fallen in economic competitiveness. But according to Helen Gym, everything is fine...
The leadership in the mayor's office and the city council is marginal, at best. There hasn't been any major reform as to how this city operates, which is why I'm not surprised that major companies are leaving Philly as well as the population growth currently slowing down to the point where we might be in the negative after sustaining positive growth from 2007 to 2019. And let's not forget the wage and business taxes that are holding this city hostage.

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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
2. I hate world ranking lists, they are highly bias and contain odd and dramatic changes with each release (every 2 or so years). But I will say Philadelphia, Atlanta, Houston and Dallas are all in close ranking and Philadelphia actually jumped a few spots in recent rankings while the others maintained or lowered (notably Houston). Aside from Covid fallout, I see Philadelphia maintaining its standing with the other 3, and potentially gaining ground.
I'm not so much a fan of the rankings, but then again I'm not surprised that Philly is on par with a city like Denver and Seattle, two fine and decent cities. If you look closely at the Beta+ classification, you'll see that Miami fell two spaces down to Beta+ from it's 2019 as an Alpha city, along with LA and Chicago. While I was surprised that Miami was ranked so high, traveling to Miami and seeing the new condos and towers that they were building, as well as the rapid improvements in infrastructure (FL is already constructing high speed rail between Miami and Orlando and will reach Tampa and Jacksonville in the future), plus many of the Latin American banks have their American HQ in Miami. And not to mention, some of the financial and high-tech firms in NYC and Silicon Valley are looking to relocating to Miami, so that's another huge boost for that city.

TX will recover once the COVID-19 and the recent substorm that's hit that state subsides. TX already garnered the reputation of having lower business taxes as well as cheap land, two factors in why TX has boomed in recent decades. I don't see population growth slowing down anytime soon unless something really catastrophic affects much of the state, and there's a very low chance that TX will go back to being sold a state bookended by only two mega cities.

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3. As of February 2020 (right before Covid), Philadelphia poverty rate was 23.5%, well below 25% AND I was studying some trajectories, if rates kept similar, Philadelphia would likely dip below Houston within the next decade, FINALLY giving away the title as America's poorest big city. Now that Covid hit, who knows...
The quality of life is completely different in Houston due to the cheap land in TX as well as the lower wages in comparison to Philadelphia and PA. It's much easier to have a house in TX if you're under 30 as opposed to being under 30 in PA. Either way, the factor in this is housing affordability, quality of life, employment rates, and the wages in each state. TX beats PA in housing, employment, and possible quality of life. The only thing we probably have going for TX are the higher wages, and even then, the dollar stretches more in TX than it does in PA.

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4. Philadelphia's future success is largely related to life sciences, which is a major bright spot for the city and region economy. I am still waiting on leaders to realize that and cater to it... Comcast could also increase Philadelphia's presence in entertainment and media, but that is a different discussion.
We can only hope. It looks like NYC beat us to the punch when it comes to the first face and hand transplant (https://people.com/health/man-underg...ds-transplant/). Let's see how Philly can maintain being a center for life sciences for this country.

Philly did invent the first computer, ENIAC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC) was first developed in Penn, and nowadays, Silicon Valley, and to a lesser degree, Seattle, have much of the high-tech firms within their areas. Even Westchester County, NY has IBM and the Boston area had Wang (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Laboratories), which did help their local economies. Philly had no such company from the computer boom in the 1970's to the dot-com boom and bust of the 1990's. Even despite the dot-com bust, SF, Silicon Valley, and Seattle still managed to stay relevant in the American conscience while Philly remains stagnant when it comes to it's local economy and in some cases, slipping.

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Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
5. While I want to see population grow quicker, it is still a positive that population in the city and region is growing (slowly), many other legacy cities are losing people. I still do no find that super relevant, because its not as simple as Philadelphia is growing slower than Dallas, therefore its not as healthy.

I too am excited for the census and future data, and Philadelphia has all the bones in place to grow, but once again, leadership....
In 2000, Philadelphia had the fourth largest MSA behind NYC, LA, and Chicago. In 2010, Dallas-Fort Worth jumped to number 4 while we fell to number 5. In 2019, we fell 3 spots to number 8, and if the Atlanta MSA continues it's double digit growth, it's estimated that it will have 6.102 million people to Philly MSA's 6,117 million people, placing it closer to Philly in 2020 and if the double digit growth is sustained, Atlanta will take take number 8 while we'll fall to number 9, and you'll have to worry about Boston, Phoenix, SF, and even Riverside CA adding more people to their MSAs. The CSA is even bleaker as Miami and Atlanta looks like they'll surpass the Philly CSA if not now the 2020 census, sometime this decade, taking the Philadelphia CSA out of the Top 10.
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  #1049  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 1:43 PM
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Loving the ignore function on this website.
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  #1050  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 5:52 PM
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Aaaaaand... River Walk.
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  #1051  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 6:29 PM
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Wanderer34.... please stop. 1st warning. Keep it on topic. Also, no City V. City.
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  #1052  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 7:27 PM
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Wanderer34.... please stop. 1st warning. Keep it on topic. Also, no City V. City.
Wasn't meant to be city vs city. Also I was already answering questions. It will end.
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  #1053  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 8:42 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is offline
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Sorry everyone.

Anyways, I am very excited for the new Riverwalk Giant to open. It will add some major foot traffic to the area, and nice to have a traditional grocery store opening in CC.
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  #1054  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 11:34 PM
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These two towers when finished will look awesome as they frame the view very nicely from the area around 30th Street Station. And, the glass on it is very sexy with the cut out rectangular protrusion on the side. definitely not cheap looking glass at all.

"skylinevisuals_" on instagram ahas some nice shots of the 1st tower.
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  #1055  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2021, 7:56 PM
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I noticed the crane lifting bundles of rebar yesterday, so---it might be in slow motion, but it does seem like progress is being made on the south tower.
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  #1056  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 1:08 AM
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CL29WqWH15V/

^added bonus, the Arthaus sneaks in there.
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  #1057  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 1:12 AM
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great find as usual, Jawn!
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  #1058  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 3:07 AM
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Nice view! Is that the new acela at the bottom of the picture?
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  #1059  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 5:59 AM
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  #1060  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 12:53 PM
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Nice view! Is that the new acela at the bottom of the picture?
Yes
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