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Originally Posted by New2Fishtown
I think people overestimate how sophisticated most retailers are in understanding a location's relative strengths. Center City still looks relatively weak if you use the traditional approach of understanding your "catchment area" by calculating a 1-3-5 mile radius or some sort of drive time analysis (because if you understand the value of the location in those terms, your analysis is grabbing vast expenses of low-income neighborhoods on both sides of the river). Some of course can see the more fine-grained picture and understand that the drivers of success are the population within walking distance, its wealth and spending power, as well as more transient populations of tourists, conventioneers, office workers, etc.
But many stick to their guns in fairly ridiculous ways, Trader Joe's being a great example. They've been willing to make exceptions in Manhattan, and ONLY Manhattan, in terms of their attitude towards parking attached to their stores. Despite the business model, target shopper, and other factors of a central Philadelphia store being more akin to a Manhattan store than a suburban California store, they demand the same parking ratios here as they seek anywhere else across the country. The result: a complete unwillingness to consider what any of us would understand to be homerun locations, strange treatment of existing locations (e.g. no door on Market Street), and expansion locations that, while ultimately successful, are kind of head-scratchers. Can you imagine any other supermarket brand looking at their 13th and Arch location and thinking, yep, these are the ingredients I'm looking for for my urban store: minimal foot traffic, very little adjacent residential, multiple blocks rendered dead and useless by the convention center, etc. Their thinking was simple: the store is in a garage, and the garage is necessary to us doing well. I would LOVE to know how many TJ's shoppers in Philly arrive by car relative to other modes. Meanwhile, they remain firm in their convictions even as Giant/Heirloom opens store after store with zero parking and crushes it because they choose locations where people live and understand that locals will make multiple small trips weekly rather than an every two-weeks, load-up-the-SUV trip.
I recognize much of the above commentary was more about luxury brands than convenience or service-based retail. On the luxury front, I'd argue that the growth we've seen in and around CC has been far more in younger, middle-income households than people who actually make enough to spend money routinely at stores like the ones mentioned. I think that demographic reality, coupled with the fact that Center City was really only deemed "acceptable" or ready for its spotlight at a time when brick and mortar was already faltering and then truly disrupted by a pandemic all mean that we're just not ever going to have the kind of retail mix people seem to think is somehow important or an indicator of us having made it.
For my money, I'd much rather we be the city of an Heirloom in every neighborhood than a city with a super sleek prime retail corridor. That is admittedly a reflection of my own socioeconomic status: when I travel to Europe, I'm more struck and enchanted about how easy and livable cities like London and Paris are by virtue of how chock full of basic conveniences each neighborhood is (tons of small supermarkets, clothing staples, specialty grocers, salons, bars and restaurants, etc) than I am by how Regent Street or Rue St Honore is doing.
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Why can't we have both? I've long complained about the lack of grocery and fresh market presence in Center City, that has finally changed, much thanks to Giant and others (Trader Joes long ignored the Philadelphia market, so they suck even though I still shop there). But a lot of other retail (not just high-end) requires ordering online or trips to KoP or Cherry Hill, shouldn't be the case.
And whether you agree or disagree, a strong retail presence does somewhat play into the prestige of a big city, just like the arts scene, culinary scene, parks, museums, etc. Philadelphia has everything but the retail, so not the end of the world by any means, just something that would make Center City more of a showstopper downtown, and an additional lure for tourists since they shop and no sales tax on clothes or shoes.
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Originally Posted by UrbanRevival
Perfectly stated, and I agree 100% about what's truly more important for urban vitality.
I also have to think that there are number of high-end retailers falling out of relevance pretty quickly, especially as younger consumers seem to care MUCH less about brand name shopping and materialism in general.
On another but related note, I get that high-end shopping corridors continue to be seen by many folks as a major status symbol for cities, but I have to think in 2021, that business model may be beginning to be a bit out-of-touch by a significant segment of the consumer population, even amongst many who are wealthier, who would much rather spend a large chunk of money on an "experience" than an Italian leather handbag or a "handcrafted" pair of jeans.
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I can't find any data to support your statements. The days of traditional malls are ending, but there are no signs that designer brands, luxury brands, high-end home stores, etc. are floundering. And a lot of my intel comes directly from friends in the business working for Saks, Theory, Nordstrom, etc.
One thing that has changed is many luxury brands do not have flagships just to have flagships, they have to make money to stay open, but I've only seen spotty circumstances where a flagship closed or moved because of that.
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Originally Posted by EastSideHBG
I totally agree re: livable neighborhoods with the basic services is best but Philly is a big tourist town so not having a high end walkable retail area leaves something missing IMO, especially when you look at the cities we need to compete with...and having our own suburbs to compete with also.
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Your first paragraph was part of my original point. I was NOT painting Philadelphia as a lackluster city, CC is a top 3 downtown in almost every metric, but for shopping, whether its convenience, home, high-end, etc., it's pretty bad compared to DC, Boston, Chicago, San Fran (not using NYC since its in a different tier).
And the competing with the suburbs thing is another problem that goes beyond just retail.
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Originally Posted by skyhigh07
I’m not a high end retailer shopper per se - I think a lot of it is overhyped honestly. That being said, these stores create very attractive storefronts and add vibrancy to the streetscape. I’d love to see an Italian handbag store on Walnut vs another bank or empty space. On a side note, I recently spoke with someone who wished Walnut stores would do more to decorate for the holidays like Anthropologie store does. Luxury stores often go above and beyond in seasonal decoration and as you mentioned they contribute to the “experience” of the area. I’m not saying Walnut should or frankly can become the next Champs Elysees or Saville Row, but given it’s location and brand it’s certainly lacking right now.
I’ve read some pushback regarding the claim that Gen Z is less materialistic than previous generations. Sure, they get their dopamine hits more from tech and social media than shopping these days, but a lot of the data out there doesn’t support that it’s noticeably less. In fact they may be more - if they’re going to keep showing off on Instagram and Tik Tok, they still need money and “stuff”.
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More great points. Most of the buildings on RittRow are beautiful, but everything else needs some TLC. And I also was not advocating for Walnut to resemble Champs Elysees, but it is Philadelphia's premiere stretch retail street, and should be treated as such from whatever entities manage it.
*Anyways, I will get back on topic and agree to disagree with some of ya'll
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