Phoenix Development News (3)

[PHXFlyer11]

http://ktar.com/22/1841872/HOME-FOR-2

This would be amazing! It makes the Suns hopes of a new arena more promising and could really accelerate things. Also, any development is likely to include much more than just the arena itself.

Spring training is a different animal and not indicative of what would happen during a normal season. The weather is better. The seats are cheaper. Hundreds of thousands visit from out of town. The stadiums are also much smaller.

[azsunsurfer]

Great and the Tempe Athletics District would be a great fit! Better location demographically speaking too...

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

http://ktar.com/22/1841872/HOME-FOR-2

This would be amazing! It makes the Suns hopes of a new arena more promising and could really accelerate things. Also, any development is likely to include much more than just the arena itself.

Spring training is a different animal and not indicative of what would happen during a normal season. The weather is better. The seats are cheaper. Hundreds of thousands visit from out of town. The stadiums are also much smaller.

Lol, yea. Comparing Spring training games to regular season is like comparing apples and oranges...the biggest factor being ticket cost and the fact that a lot of the fans at the Diamondbacks spring facility are snowbirds rooting for the other team. ALL the Spring training facilities are packed during training games.

Regardng location, Suns and Coyotes should be downtown. Tempe has enough going on and is already a traffic nightmare. Any more from a major sports events outside of an ASU football game would just be not doable IMHO. Phoenix on the other hand has freeways on all 4 sides, Central and the 7's making for a better getaway route for those not leaving on the light rail.

[phoenixwillrise]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Lol, yea. Comparing Spring training games to regular season is like comparing apples and oranges...the biggest factor being ticket cost and the fact that a lot of the fans at the Diamondbacks spring facility are snowbirds rooting for the other team. ALL the Spring training facilities are packed during training games.

Regardng location, Suns and Coyotes should be downtown. Tempe has enough going on and is already a traffic nightmare. Any more from a major sports events outside of an ASU football game would just be not doable IMHO. Phoenix on the other hand has freeways on all 4 sides, Central and the 7's making for a better getaway route for those not leaving on the light rail.

You obviously don't attend spring training or you would know the prices have been creeping up for years and are not cheap in the least and most teams are, like the Giants have, going to a priced by demand system where when you buy tickets day of game the price via computer is escalating as the stadium sells out and a lot of spring training attendance is spontaneous not season tickets holders. The success of the D'backs in North Scottsdale is a strong indicator of where the money is and the Coyotes not going to Mcdowell and Scottsdale Rd. ,as originally planned and screwed up by the former owner , pretty much screwed the franchise as it is a fact that their largest season ticket fan base was Scottsdale and North Phoenix. Oh and check your attendance figures for spring training outside of the D'backs, Giants and Cubs and weekend games for Dodgers and Angels there are a lot of empty seats for spring training most especially on the west side with the Red's, Indians, Brewers, Padres, Seattle, KC. and Texas. If you are going to talk shit do your research!

[TakeFive]

Oh Boy, we're having fun now.

"Arizona Coyotes file restraining order against City of Glendale"
abc15.com staff

[somethingfast]

As talk about a new combined facility downtown starts to build, I hope all this Coyotes drama reminds people that public financing of sports venues is fraught with danger in our modern times. This isn't 1995 anymore...or 2005...it's a brave new world where public use of funds *has* to have clear, tangible paths to payback. I don't live in Phoenix anymore but if I did I would not support a large public financing element to any new construction, especially for hockey which is, like it or not, of somewhat limited and fickle interest in Arizona. And the Suns...well, they certainly haven't earned themselves state-of-the-art new digs but I grant that their current facility is reaching economic obsolescence if not functional. Plus, building by committee (i.e., government involvement in design, etc.) does not foster anything but a regression to the mean in design. Just look at how awful Chase Field has aged, both aesthetically and economically. Phoenix is a big enough market to support a new venue downtown for basketball/hockey (I guess Glendale's arena would cater to concerts...that's okay)...but I would be very leery of jumping the gun. I can totally see someone like Sarver licking his chops right now at the possibility of getting a new facility and pushing a large chunk of the cost onto the people. That's how billionaires roll. And the people have had enough of that "publicizing the costs and privatizing the profits" bullsh*t of the past. At least I hope so...

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by phoenixwillrise

You obviously don't attend spring training or you would know the prices have been creeping up for years and are not cheap in the least and most teams are, like the Giants have, going to a priced by demand system where when you buy tickets day of game the price via computer is escalating as the stadium sells out and a lot of spring training attendance is spontaneous not season tickets holders. The success of the D'backs in North Scottsdale is a strong indicator of where the money is and the Coyotes not going to Mcdowell and Scottsdale Rd. ,as originally planned and screwed up by the former owner , pretty much screwed the franchise as it is a fact that their largest season ticket fan base was Scottsdale and North Phoenix. Oh and check your attendance figures for spring training outside of the D'backs, Giants and Cubs and weekend games for Dodgers and Angels there are a lot of empty seats for spring training most especially on the west side with the Red's, Indians, Brewers, Padres, Seattle, KC. and Texas. If you are going to talk shit do your research!

First of all spring training tickets are still not in the realm of what regular season games cost. Also, the size of the stadiums is 1/3 that of a pro ballpark. The games are outside in nice spring weather (yes, I know the Giants can get expensive, but they have alot of local fans and fans that fly in. They have also won three world series recently).

Both teams have proven they can draw nice crowds downtown when they are winning - and neither is foolish enough to jeopardize that for a repeat of Glendale.

In downtown Phoenix you can draw from all surrounding communities. If you put yourself in North Scottsdale you will draw little to nothing from Gilbert, South/Central Phoenix, Glendale and East Mesa. It's the same weekday commute issue that Glendale has. That's fine that more people can afford to go, but there are also fewer people in an acceptable radius to make the drive. A scottsdale population of 226K is not filling a 35-40K stadium for baseball nor a 22-25k arena for basketball/hockey. Just like Glendale which only has 234k people.

In central phoenix you can reach more of the burbs and are accessible to 1.5M phoenix residents.

It's a good thing you don't own a team.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Regardng location, Suns and Coyotes should be downtown. Tempe has enough going on and is already a traffic nightmare. Any more from a major sports events outside of an ASU football game would just be not doable IMHO. Phoenix on the other hand has freeways on all 4 sides, Central and the 7's making for a better getaway route for those not leaving on the light rail.

I agree.

Freeway... Not that I agree but your arguments always make great sense.
Your most important fan base financially is the corporations, business owners and specific fans that want the boxes and lower bowl seats. CEO's may not even attend many games; it's more for the employees and clients to use who could live anywhere.

somethingfast... Fair enough but if the Milwaukee Bucks can get public support for 50% of a $500 million new downtown arena surely the Suns can I would hope. Sarver is no billionaire but maybe the combination of all owners is.

I'm mildly concerned about the Suns. I'm sure Sarver and friends know they could pick up the phone and quickly have a deal with Chris Hansen and/or Jeff Bezos for say $750 million to move the franchise to Seattle. I'll assume the Suns stay in Phoenix though.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I'm mildly concerned about the Suns. I'm sure Sarver and friends know they could pick up the phone and quickly have a deal with Chris Hansen and/or Jeff Bezos for say $750 million to move the franchise to Seattle. I'll assume the Suns stay in Phoenix though.

A lot would have to go wrong for that to happen. The league would not move a team that does OK financially in a market that has been in a market for 47 years just because there is a higher bidder.

They would have to exhaust the arena battle. Thus far, Sarver has brought the topic up with the city only lightly and has not asked for a new arena. From the point he demands one you have about 5 years.

[dtnphx]

Phoenix city councilman pushing for dual Suns-Coyotes arena, downtown mall and grocery store

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/b...dual-suns.html

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by dtnphx

Phoenix city councilman pushing for dual Suns-Coyotes arena, downtown mall and grocery store

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/b...dual-suns.html

The downtown mall being a reference to the existing arena.

Nowakowski said the old Suns arena, US Airways Center (soon to be named Talking Stick Resort Arena) could be repurposed as an urban mall.

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

A lot would have to go wrong for that to happen. The league would not move a team that does OK financially in a market that has been in a market for 47 years just because there is a higher bidder.

They would have to exhaust the arena battle. Thus far, Sarver has brought the topic up with the city only lightly and has not asked for a new arena. From the point he demands one you have about 5 years.

Oh, I agree the odds of moving are dim at this point. The option is out there though.

I'd have to double check but I believe Sarver has an option coming up in ~2019. Behind the scenes it's known he wants a new arena; the reason for the PBJ piece posted by dtnphx above.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by dtnphx

Phoenix city councilman pushing for dual Suns-Coyotes arena, downtown mall and grocery store

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/b...dual-suns.html

What luck! Downtown could go from 0 to 2 grocers!

[combusean]

I doubt Phoenix wouldn't build a new arena, especially if it were in the context of a convention center expansion.

Expanding the underground exhibition hall for a dual use sports facility that could also bring back a lot of concerts from Glendale would have enough ripple benefits and not just be benefiting "billionaire sports owners."

Such a facility would be tremendously expensive, however, much more so than the average arena. Phoenix financed the convention center upgrade with 50% state aid, whether that'd be around for the next time is anyone's guess.

At least I hope they'd put it in the context of a convention center expansion. It would be stupid not to.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by combusean

I doubt Phoenix wouldn't build a new arena, especially if it were in the context of a convention center expansion.

Hmm... I wasn't sure what the heck they mean by "a new arena at the current site of the South Building of the Phoenix Convention Center." They hardly need any expansion though of the convention center I wouldn't think.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Hmm... I wasn't sure what the heck they mean by "a new arena at the current site of the South Building of the Phoenix Convention Center." They hardly need any expansion though of the convention center I wouldn't think.

They are talking about tearing down the old building across from Chase field for the new arena, not expanding convention space.

I hate the idea of trying to turn US Airways center into a mall. Better to level and seek new developments. I personally believe we need more housing in south downtown. But of course commercial, retail and entertainment should all be included on some scale. I W would be nice, but I don't think we need another hotel.

Remember there is talk also of selling the city-owned Sheraton to help finance a new arena.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I hate the idea of trying to turn US Airways center into a mall. Better to level and seek new developments. I personally believe we need more housing in south downtown. But of course commercial, retail and entertainment should all be included on some scale. I W would be nice, but I don't think we need another hotel.

Councilman Nowakowski has good intentions, but doesn't seem to understand how to cultivate urban vitality. He proposes big projects with big flaws -- not only this one, but also his idea to transform First Street and/or Adams into a pedestrian mall. When it comes to fine-grained details, however, he worked against urban vitality by siding with Circle K and scolding those opposed to the store at Roosevelt and 7th Street. The result of his vision, if fully realized, would be big projects that either sit empty or that everyone would drive to, while the streets just a few blocks away would be lifeless. Councilwoman Gallego, who represents the other half of Downtown, seems to have a much better grasp of how to cultivate a vibrant city from the ground up.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Lol, yea. Comparing Spring training games to regular season is like comparing apples and oranges...the biggest factor being ticket cost and the fact that a lot of the fans at the Diamondbacks spring facility are snowbirds rooting for the other team. ALL the Spring training facilities are packed during training games.

Regardng location, Suns and Coyotes should be downtown. Tempe has enough going on and is already a traffic nightmare. Any more from a major sports events outside of an ASU football game would just be not doable IMHO. Phoenix on the other hand has freeways on all 4 sides, Central and the 7's making for a better getaway route for those not leaving on the light rail.

I agree with most of what you are saying but all spring training facilities are not packed during Cactus League games, and it again points to why location, as well as the teams involved, is important. The Reds and Indians share a stadium in Goodyear and their attendance is typically lousy.

http://ballparkdigest.com/2015/04/05...ce-by-average/

[azsunsurfer]

Good news, that billboard where the new Circle K is going on 7th and Roosevelt will be replaced with a new state of the art electronic static billboard. Finally cleaning up some of that blight.

[biggus diggus]

I suppose that's good, but I kind of like the tattoo shop ads, they're just clever enough to be non-offensive in my opinion. I bet the rent will be higher on the billboard so those guys won't be able to afford it.

[PHXflyer]

Purely brainstorming here...

What if the Suns were to play two seasons in Tempe at Wells Fargo Arena and have their new stadium built in the same location as the current one? This would keep there stadium immersed more with downtown as the site of the south convention center is a bit blocked off from any street activity, plus I'm hopeful our city will one day need more convention space and rebuild the south building to match the north.