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  #41941  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2018, 1:30 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Saw this on he upcoming Plan Comission Agenda. Which project is this?

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4. A proposed Planned Development, submitted by Ickes Master Developer JV LLC, for the property generally located at 1-23 West Cermak Road; 2210-2458 South State Street; 2401-2459 South Dearborn Street; 2301-2359 South Federal Street; 2301-2309 South State Street; 1-9 East 23rd Street; 1-53 West 23rd Street; 2-24 West 23rd Street; and, 34- 54 W. 24th Street. The applicant proposes to rezone the approximately 20-acre site from C2-3, RM-5, DX-3 and M1-3 to a unified DX-3, prior to establishing the Planned Development. The Planned Development will establish five subareas (A, B, C, D, E) with a maximum of 972 dwelling units, ground floor commercial space and accessory parking spaces to be built in phases. Phase I will include a portion of Subarea B to be located at
the intersection of proposed West 23rd Place and South State Street and will authorize the construction of a 6-story, 81’ tall building with ground floor commercial space, 228 dwelling units and 61 accessory, vehicular, parking spaces (19186:3rd Ward)
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  #41942  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2018, 2:13 PM
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Southbridge is what McCaffery is calling it now
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  #41943  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2018, 2:22 PM
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^ Ahh, ok. I like that they keep a street wall on State and put a prominent building on the corner. I hope they start this soon. My guess is that this is one of those 33% CHA projects, right?
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  #41944  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2018, 4:08 PM
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A 1 story building that used to house Chicago Uptown Ministry on Sheridan Rd to be demolished. Replacement slated to be a new 5 story, 24 unit building with ground floor retail. This is just south of Lawrence. Probably TOD - parking isn't mentioned in the pending permit.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/47...!4d-87.6552229

Always good to add more height when compared to just 1 floor, and add a little more density while at it.
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  #41945  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2018, 5:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Ahh, ok. I like that they keep a street wall on State and put a prominent building on the corner. I hope they start this soon. My guess is that this is one of those 33% CHA projects, right?
At one point the ratio was 50% non-market, split between true CHA units and affordables. It's not clear if the ratio has moved around a bit.

After seeing spyguy's rendering, I'm kinda disappointed they eliminated plans for a plaza at 2350S. Would have been a nice centerpiece for the development to have a plaza surrounded by shops and restaurants. State Street is much better after CDOT put in a cycle track but still kind of a drag strip. Hopefully the east side of the street also fills in with walkable mixed-use as that area and Motor Row develop.
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  #41946  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2018, 5:09 PM
BuildThemTaller BuildThemTaller is offline
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Originally Posted by spyguy View Post
Southbridge is what McCaffery is calling it now
The more I see of this development, the more I like it. It's so close to 2 CTA stops, has a street wall, hides the parking "Barcelona-style" between the buildings, and enhances park space for the high school and community. More of this, please.
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  #41947  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2018, 9:16 PM
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^ Awesome project! I like it for all the reasons everyone has stated (focuses on State, hides parking, adjacent CTA rail stops, tower holds the corner), and also for the fact that it will help connect Chinatown with the booming neighbors to the east: South Loop, Motor Row/Depaul Arena and McCormick Place.
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  #41948  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
A 1 story building that used to house Chicago Uptown Ministry on Sheridan Rd to be demolished. Replacement slated to be a new 5 story, 24 unit building with ground floor retail. This is just south of Lawrence. Probably TOD - parking isn't mentioned in the pending permit.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/47...!4d-87.6552229

Always good to add more height when compared to just 1 floor, and add a little more density while at it.
this is the kind of infill you see when uptown goes on a little upswing
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  #41949  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 5:07 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
The trains are getting too crowded. Further evidence that TOD is a success

Umm, the CTA has a budget problem. How do these fool politicians expect the CTA to make money without full trains?

Quote:
In 2018, we face an unprecedented fiscal challenge. The State of Illinois budget that passed earlier this year included significant reductions in operating budget funding to support regional transit. CTA, which carries more than 80 percent of the region’s transit rides, has shouldered the largest portion of the state cuts: more than $33 million in reduced funding.
https://www.transitchicago.com/asset...eb_version.pdf
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  #41950  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 8:20 PM
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If CTA trains are overcrowded and yet the agency is losing money, that means it’s time for a fare increase. Demand outstrips supply and the price they’re charging doesn’t cover their cost base. Raise the fare, some people will choose other modes of transportation, but trains will remain full with more revenue per passenger.

It would also be worthwhile to look into alternative pricing models. Fare zones aren’t popular politicaly because the poorest residents are farthest from the center, but they could certainly experiment with higher fares at peak times and/or on the most crowded lines. Then you’d be making white collar commuters travelling from Lincoln Park to the Loop at 8am pay a bit more, but holding fares for Pink Line blue collar workers the same. It’s the Uber pricing model.
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  #41951  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 8:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post

It would also be worthwhile to look into alternative pricing models. Fare zones aren’t popular politicaly because the poorest residents are farthest from the center, but they could certainly experiment with higher fares at peak times and/or on the most crowded lines. Then you’d be making white collar commuters travelling from Lincoln Park to the Loop at 8am pay a bit more, but holding fares for Pink Line blue collar workers the same. It’s the Uber pricing model.
Wouldn't this cost a bit of money because the paradigm of when to tap your card would change (or how to buy a ticket)? I've used systems like this in China, Hong Kong, Singapore, and DC. Chicago would have to invest millions to even make this a reality. Point is...is that investment worth it over a 25 or 50 cent price increase across the board?
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  #41952  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Wouldn't this cost a bit of money because the paradigm of when to tap your card would change? Point is...is that investment worth it over a 25 or 50 cent price increase across the board?
It would be easier to implement than fare zones. Fare zones require riders to tap in and tap out, as on London’s tube, and the CTA doesn’t currently have that infrastructure. Variable pricing according to the time or the station being entered would only require the turnstile to deduct a different amount from a fare card.

You’d have to get rid of the paper single fare cards, or just make them invalid for peak travel, but with the Ventra cards and contactless payment it could work just like it does here. Fullerton red line stop going southbound at 8am? Fare is $3.50. Orange line at Archer bound for the Loop at 4:30am? Fare is $2.
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  #41953  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 8:46 PM
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Most commuters probably have monthly passes, so I'm not sure a peak-time fare hike would make a big difference. Probably there is something to be gained by additional short-turns during rush hour though.
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  #41954  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 8:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller View Post
The more I see of this development, the more I like it. It's so close to 2 CTA stops, has a street wall, hides the parking "Barcelona-style" between the buildings, and enhances park space for the high school and community. More of this, please.
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  #41955  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Ahh, ok. I like that they keep a street wall on State and put a prominent building on the corner. I hope they start this soon. My guess is that this is one of those 33% CHA projects, right?
The RFP called for approximately 200 CHA units. I forgot the full breakdown in unit distribution, but everyone involved, including the alderman were, concerned about having too much CHA.
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  #41956  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 9:07 PM
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Most commuters probably have monthly passes, so I'm not sure a peak-time fare hike would make a big difference. Probably there is something to be gained by additional short-turns during rush hour though.
The main advantage to a peak hour price increase is not increased profit. It would be in encouraging thrifty riders to leave earlier or later and spread the peaks out.

The CTA has hit the wall on how many cars they can run during each peak hour, but there are oodles of capacity lying fallow just on either side of those times.
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  #41957  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 9:23 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
It would be easier to implement than fare zones. Fare zones require riders to tap in and tap out, as on London’s tube, and the CTA doesn’t currently have that infrastructure. Variable pricing according to the time or the station being entered would only require the turnstile to deduct a different amount from a fare card.

You’d have to get rid of the paper single fare cards, or just make them invalid for peak travel, but with the Ventra cards and contactless payment it could work just like it does here. Fullerton red line stop going southbound at 8am? Fare is $3.50. Orange line at Archer bound for the Loop at 4:30am? Fare is $2.
Okay, so from an infrastructure it's okay. From a software perspective, it would require changes, testing, etc. Not as expensive, but not a walk in the park either. And yeah It could work with non monthly passes, but again it's more of a software change than anything.
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  #41958  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 9:25 PM
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Okay, so from an infrastructure it's okay. From a software perspective, it would require changes, testing, etc. Not as expensive, but not a walk in the park either. And yeah It could work with non monthly passes, but again it's more of a software change than anything.
I mean, if they implemented the whole Ventra and contactless payment system without software capable of doing this, then the CTA is being run by idiots. This sort of flexibility is the whole point of that kind of (probably very expensive) systems upgrade.


As for train capacity... is there still opportunity for them to run longer trains? I know that there are probably some shorter platforms that couldn’t be expanded, but over here there are just stops where that’s the case and not all of the doors open. There’s an automated announcement to say that “the front (or back) doors won’t open at the next station”, because the train extends beyond the platform. Works fine.
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  #41959  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 9:36 PM
JK47 JK47 is offline
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
If CTA trains are overcrowded and yet the agency is losing money, that means it’s time for a fare increase. Demand outstrips supply and the price they’re charging doesn’t cover their cost base. Raise the fare, some people will choose other modes of transportation, but trains will remain full with more revenue per passenger.

I think the issue is a fair bit more complicated than the simplest maxim of economics which is, itself, not entirely accurate.

For one, from a historical standpoint, fares haven't covered agency expenses. Mass transit is a subsidized mode of transit precisely because it efficiently delivers large quantities of passengers to heavily trafficked portions of the city using a compact footprint obviating expensive, difficult (technically, financially, politically), and frankly anti-urban upgrades to the roadway infrastructure. However, and most importantly, the transit budget is a very visible way in which to measure the cost of mass transit both in terms of what is born by users directly and what is contributed by both users and non-users indirectly. The same cannot be said for the cost of maintaining roadways and highways which is, with few exceptions, supported by subsidies indirectly by users and non-users alike. So your contention that it's time to raise fares simply because the transit system isn't self supporting fails immediately from a policy standpoint since roadways also aren't self-supporting.

Additionally, if you want to take this to Economics 102 we would need to talk about demand elasticity or in the case of mass transit, the lack thereof. Our built environment is centered on the current transit in terms of where living and work areas are located (or concentrated) and the connections between. You can make large adjustments to fares and people will, for the most part, be hard pressed to find alternatives simply because those alternatives are significantly more expensive, more difficult or less direct, or just less efficient.

However by moving the price of transit drastically you will greatly burden people who need to use mass transit the most. In which case you're going to be forcing people to make choices between going to work/school, paying rent, seeing the doctor or not (recently a woman injured by a T train in Boston implored witnesses to not call an ambulance because she can't afford the transport fee) buying lousy food instead of fresh food, etc. Particularly because you seem to think that the only people riding the train during arbitrary "peak" hours are white collar workers. There are huge numbers of people in the service sector that would be captured in that peak hours net.
I'm honestly not sure who you're shielding by this aspect of your proposal.
Your zonal model will also fail since poor residents aren't concentrated and there are significant numbers of vulnerable residents mixed into wealthier neighborhoods which is likely to be an increasing trend given the growing desire to require developers to build affordable housing either on-site or in close proximity.
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  #41960  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 9:43 PM
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I bet adding a bus lane on North Michigan / LSD would alleviate a lot of Red Line crowding issues (since many would choose to take the bus instead, and the buses could make more trips during rush hour). Maybe an express bus lane on the Kennedy could be implemented as well to lighten the load on the blue line. At least until suburbanites agree to pony up more for Blue Line improvements.
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