CHICAGO | Da Bears | New Domed Lakefront Stadium Proposal

[nomarandlee]

Certainly a lot of......water. Initial first impression are good. No doubt that the Bears will at the very least ask or expect AH to pay the cost of the street network, parks, bridges, and maybe even water elements.

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Certainly a lot of......water. Initial first impression are good. No doubt that the Bears will at the very least ask or expect AH to pay the cost of the street network, parks, bridges, and maybe even water elements.

Yeah, looks to me like a textbook case for TIF.

[r18tdi]

Link to the Bear's site for the project: https://www.chicagobears.com/arlington-park/

[Steely Dan]

sounds like they're planning to "go big" on the stadium itself.

The “multi-purpose entertainment district” will be “anchored by a “best-in-class, enclosed stadium … worthy of hosting global events” such as the Super Bowl, college football playoffs and the NCAA’s Final Four basketball championships.

[MAC123]

Hopefully they get HKS to design it. They designed Sofi and will design the Miami Hurricanes future stadium which looks ridiculously good and futuristic.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by MAC123

Hopefully they get HKS to design it. They designed Sofi and will design the Miami Hurricanes future stadium which looks ridiculously good and futuristic.

word on the street is that the bears are working with MANICA Architecture for the new stadium design.

their most recent stadium was Allegiant Field for the vegas raiders.

they also designed the newish chase center arena in SF.



source: https://www.bleachernation.com/bears...ngton-heights/

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

word on the street is that the bears are working with MANICA Architecture for the new stadium design.

their most recent stadium was Allegiant Field for the vegas raiders.

they also designed the newish chase center arena in SF.



source: https://www.bleachernation.com/bears...ngton-heights/

Okay that's good. Allegiant is also a very good design.

[CrazyCres]

Is the metra station getting an overhaul?

[Rizzo]

I think the site plan looks great. It’s the best I could expect.

But my suspicions were correct. Their words:

“While the Bears will seek no public funding for direct stadium structure construction, given the broad, long-term public benefits of this project, we look forward to partnering with the various governmental bodies to secure additional funding and assistance needed to support the feasibility of the remainder of the development.”

You can’t guarantee the residential and commercial will come to fruition.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by Rizzo

I think the site plan looks great. It’s the best I could expect.

But my suspicions were correct. Their words:

“While the Bears will seek no public funding for direct stadium structure construction, given the broad, long-term public benefits of this project, we look forward to partnering with the various governmental bodies to secure additional funding and assistance needed to support the feasibility of the remainder of the development.”

You can’t guarantee the residential and commercial will come to fruition.

Yea.... I think all those placeholder buildings are much more likely to end up being a sea of parking lots. I can't imagine living next to a NFL stadium is that much of a draw for residential or office. Or even retail/restaurants considering its 10 days a year of use...

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

Yea.... I think all those placeholder buildings are much more likely to end up being a sea of parking lots. I can't imagine living next to a NFL stadium is that much of a draw for residential or office. Or even retail/restaurants considering its 10 days a year of use...

Agreed..... Wrigleyville works out because there are a ton of games and it's in the heart of a dense wing of the city. This is AH where there are a handful of games. The only other way it works out is if the stadium is agressively used for enough events to justify an entertainment district like that. But even then.... hardly and public transit (aside from Metra).

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Certainly a lot of......water. Initial first impression are good. No doubt that the Bears will at the very least ask or expect AH to pay the cost of the street network, parks, bridges, and maybe even water elements.

Salt Creek, which drains a large area of Palatine and Inverness, flows through the site. There is the Twin Lakes reservoir on the other side of 53, but I imagine they will be required to maintain a floodplain storage capacity. Looking at the renderings, the water all lies near the creek. MWRD will likely get involved. Might even be able to pull in federal funding for that. The site is in a narrow strip of the new 8th congressional district, with the 5th district on either side.

Overall I like the placement of the stadium and parking lots up against the freeway and the noise there, while the mixed use steps down to the existing neighborhood which is all SFH until you get many blocks closer to downtown Arlington Heights. I do wish the existing grandstand could be saved somehow for something, it's a cool structure. But I guess there isn't really any use for it except fireworks or an outdoor festival. Make it the terminus of a big central park and turn it into a community center?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by aaron38

I do wish the existing grandstand could be saved somehow for something, it's a cool structure. But I guess there isn't really any use for it except fireworks or an outdoor festival.

yeah, the roof cantilever over the grandstand is pretty bad-ass.


source: wikipedia



I'm gonna miss arlington.

[JK47]

Originally Posted by Rizzo

“While the Bears will seek no public funding for direct stadium structure construction, given the broad, long-term public benefits of this project, we look forward to partnering with the various governmental bodies to secure additional funding and assistance needed to support the feasibility of the remainder of the development.”

Part of the business case for this move is the existence of the multi-use (retail, residential, entertainment) next to the stadium. Asking for public subsidies to develop those sites, whose income will flow into the pockets of Bears ownership, is fucking outrageous. Especially given how that money is likely going to be needed to dig the Bears out of the financial hole they're going to find themselves in trying to finance a $2 Billion + stadium on a franchise whose income is split up amongst that many ownership interests.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by JK47

Part of the business case for this move is the existence of the multi-use (retail, residential, entertainment) next to the stadium. Asking for public subsidies to develop those sites, whose income will flow into the pockets of Bears ownership, is fucking outrageous. Especially given how that money is likely going to be needed to dig the Bears out of the financial hole they're going to find themselves in trying to finance a $2 Billion + stadium on a franchise whose income is split up amongst that many ownership interests.

Yep.

I hardly expect the Bears to 100% finance this thing without any expected revenue streams outside of the stadium itself. And that goes back to my previous post.

It seems like a big reach to expect there is going to be enough of a draw in this area outside of games to pencil the numbers in favor of this stadium...... Maybe I'm wrong, but this area just isn't the center of gravity of anything.

[JK47]

Originally Posted by twister244

Yep.

I hardly expect the Bears to 100% finance this thing without any expected revenue streams outside of the stadium itself. And that goes back to my previous post.

It seems like a big reach to expect there is going to be enough of a draw in this area outside of games to pencil the numbers in favor of this stadium...... Maybe I'm wrong, but this area just isn't the center of gravity of anything.

I went back and re-read their letter and this bit jumped out:

"While the Bears will seek no public funding for direct stadium structure construction" (emphasis mine)

That's an odd turn of phrase there. So they seem to be planning some kind of intermediate funding arrangement that will get repaid through whatever income flows out of the other parcels. The bits about looking forward to partner with other stakeholders, being state and local government, seems like an obvious hint that they plan to ask for significant sums of money. Public pays to develop the entertainment district, earnings from the district go to pay for the funding instruments used to pay for the stadium.

Given the risk that the state & county tell the Bears to fuck off I'd have to imagine that whatever funding they do secure is going to be pretty onerous. The execution risk here is mammoth.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

Yea.... I think all those placeholder buildings are much more likely to end up being a sea of parking lots. I can't imagine living next to a NFL stadium is that much of a draw for residential or office. Or even retail/restaurants considering its 10 days a year of use...

Yep. I feel like I’ve heard team owners promise peripheral development in decades past and then under deliver or not build at all. Or take years to do it. Such was the case with LCA in Detroit. Worse is if the team gets rushed to throw something together to lock in a super bowl and it ends up being a bunch of 5 over 1 type aloft and Hampton inns and some copy and pasted residential stuff. Or Texas donuts since I seem to see a few of those suggested now that I look closer at the concept. Why am I saying this? Because it’s often the promise teams will make in return for public financing.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by JK47

I went back and re-read their letter and this bit jumped out:

"While the Bears will seek no public funding for direct stadium structure construction" (emphasis mine)

That's an odd turn of phrase there. So they seem to be planning some kind of intermediate funding arrangement that will get repaid through whatever income flows out of the other parcels. The bits about looking forward to partner with other stakeholders, being state and local government, seems like an obvious hint that they plan to ask for significant sums of money. Public pays to develop the entertainment district, earnings from the district go to pay for the funding instruments used to pay for the stadium.

Given the risk that the state & county tell the Bears to fuck off I'd have to imagine that whatever funding they do secure is going to be pretty onerous. The execution risk here is mammoth.

This is no different than Lincoln Yards or The 78. These kinds of mixed-use urban developments require a lot of infrastructure (streets, sewers, parks/plazas, etc) and the private development can't pay for all that on its own. We're also in a time period when construction costs are rising much faster than the returns from development, so it's getting harder every year.

In theory, a more traditional suburban development would pay for its own infrastructure, but that probably means a cul-de-sac layout with minimal sidewalks/paths, ugly retention ponds, surface parking lots, etc.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by aaron38

In a region of 9.5 million people, transportation is the most important thing. It’s at the intersection of two major interstates, twenty minutes to O’Hare and has a commuter rail station. For a promoter trying to sell tens of thousands of concert tickets, what matters is getting people in and out. For everyone not in Will County, it’s centered enough.

I think this is a bit of a stretch description....

Yes, you have 90 nearby, but 53 terminates shortly north of here, and it turns into 355 to the south which eventually gets you to 88. So, sure, this is convenient for folks along the 90/355 corridor. But... as Steely noted, there's no way the Metra is going to operate capacity to even remotely serve anyone coming from the city. It's certainly not anymore convenient for folks in the Northern suburbs who will have to get off 94 and commute through non-interstate roads to get to AH or spend extra time going down to 90 then out to 53.

I don't think the stadium will have a problem filling up for Bears games, but that's where I see the utility ending. Keep in mind there's already the Allstate arena in Rosemont and the NOW arena out by S. Barrington right on 90. So.... you have SF sticking around in Chicago for major concerts/events in the city, Allstate serving the middle burbs, and yet another arena out by far NW burbs for smaller events.

Of course the Bears are going to spin this as a major investment for the area into something than more than a huge shiny stadium that sits empty 99% of the time, but that's the reality here.

[JK47]

Originally Posted by ardecila

This is no different than Lincoln Yards or The 78. These kinds of mixed-use urban developments require a lot of infrastructure (streets, sewers, parks/plazas, etc) and the private development can't pay for all that on its own. We're also in a time period when construction costs are rising much faster than the returns from development, so it's getting harder every year.

In theory, a more traditional suburban development would pay for its own infrastructure, but that probably means a cul-de-sac layout with minimal sidewalks/paths, ugly retention ponds, surface parking lots, etc.

I feel like you are missing my point and misrepresenting what I was addressing. The issue here isn't funding infrastructure improvements like streets and sewers. The thing I was trying to point out which I think you missed is the distinction the Bears draw between declining to seek "direct" funding for structural stadium construction (again...an odd turn of phrase) and wanting to seek public subsidies for the remaining development. The implication there isn't that they want support for streets & sewers but for actually building and developing properties for the Bears.

In any event your point about public subsidizing any part of this development is just wasteful. Arlington Heights isn't a struggling community in need of a boost and the entity in question isn't a developer with optionality. The Bears have put themselves at a disadvantage tactically and the town, county, and state have too many other pressing needs on an already weak balance sheet.
The Bears are owned by millionaires and billionaires (Ryan) in a monopolistic cartel with other billionaires. They can pay full freight.