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  #7141  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Quality photo. When I first saw it I thought it was by Nick Ulivieri. It has that same crisp style of his.
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  #7142  
Old Posted May 24, 2020, 6:09 AM
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Was on the Chicago department planning twitter page and seen they have updated vista height at 1,198 ft

Last edited by Mikelacey45; May 24, 2020 at 2:32 PM.
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  #7143  
Old Posted May 24, 2020, 12:37 PM
RedCorsair87 RedCorsair87 is offline
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  #7144  
Old Posted May 24, 2020, 4:17 PM
bhawk66 bhawk66 is offline
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Originally Posted by RobEss View Post
I....I want to like this tower so much.

That asymmetrical vent and awful blow-through though.....
"Just then a tiny little dot caught my eye
It was just about too small to see
But I watched it way too long
It was pulling me down"
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  #7145  
Old Posted May 24, 2020, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bhawk66 View Post
"Just then a tiny little dot caught my eye
It was just about too small to see
But I watched it way too long
It was pulling me down"
It's more like a model who has several scars across her face. She's a beautiful building, but those scars are glaring.
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  #7146  
Old Posted May 24, 2020, 4:53 PM
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Two things, speaking for myself; 1) the blow-thru is cool. An asset even. Modern architecture.* Looking forward to it being lit up. Which it will be, imo.**

Second, those vents towards the top third were disarming at first blush but are just fine. Had to let it sink in, but they're fine now to me. Form follows function and black is sharp.

* Name three US cities that have reached blow-thru status. I'll wait.

**the Hanncock can blast light on it's antenna's and light a ring around it's top floor but Vista can't light it's blow-thru which is above all other buildings nearby? Give me a break.

Last edited by bhawk66; May 24, 2020 at 8:29 PM.
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  #7147  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 1:13 AM
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SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
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From yesterday



From a distance, the blow-through really grabs the eye...
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  #7148  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 3:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bhawk66 View Post
two things, speaking for myself; 1) the blow-thru is cool. An asset even. Modern architecture.* looking forward to it being lit up. Which it will be, imo.**

second, those vents towards the top third were disarming at first blush but are just fine. Had to let it sink in, but they're fine now to me. Form follows function and black is sharp.

* name three us cities that have reached blow-thru status. I'll wait.

**the hanncock can blast light on it's antenna's and light a ring around it's top floor but vista can't light it's blow-thru which is above all other buildings nearby? Give me a break.
retweet
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  #7149  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 7:21 AM
Dylan Dude Dylan Dude is offline
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The pictures in this thread are amazing
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  #7150  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 9:16 AM
Darude_Sandstorm Darude_Sandstorm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhawk66 View Post
Two things, speaking for myself; 1) the blow-thru is cool. An asset even. Modern architecture.* Looking forward to it being lit up. Which it will be, imo.**

Second, those vents towards the top third were disarming at first blush but are just fine. Had to let it sink in, but they're fine now to me. Form follows function and black is sharp.

* Name three US cities that have reached blow-thru status. I'll wait.

**the Hanncock can blast light on it's antenna's and light a ring around it's top floor but Vista can't light it's blow-thru which is above all other buildings nearby? Give me a break.
Form follows function doesn't mean function follows form.
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  #7151  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 3:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhawk66 View Post
Two things, speaking for myself; 1) the blow-thru is cool. An asset even. Modern architecture.* Looking forward to it being lit up. Which it will be, imo.**

Second, those vents towards the top third were disarming at first blush but are just fine. Had to let it sink in, but they're fine now to me. Form follows function and black is sharp.

* Name three US cities that have reached blow-thru status. I'll wait.

**the Hanncock can blast light on it's antenna's and light a ring around it's top floor but Vista can't light it's blow-thru which is above all other buildings nearby? Give me a break.
Are you aware that the blowthrough floor on the Vista is the result of an engineering mistake? Name 5 buildings in the US taller than Vista that didn't need a blowthrough hole. I'll wait. People celebrating such a huge mistake in building design, one that drastically interrupts the flow of the originally intended design, is so bizarre.
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  #7152  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 3:37 PM
pianowizard pianowizard is offline
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I don't remember if this informative July 2017 article was discussed regarding the blow-through:

Chicago’s Vista Tower Loses Its 83rd Floor So People Won’t be “Afraid for Their Safety”
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  #7153  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 6:04 PM
bhawk66 bhawk66 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomrQT View Post
Are you aware that the blowthrough floor on the Vista is the result of an engineering mistake? Name 5 buildings in the US taller than Vista that didn't need a blowthrough hole. I'll wait. People celebrating such a huge mistake in building design, one that drastically interrupts the flow of the originally intended design, is so bizarre.
Mistake? So how could it have otherwise been avoided considering the overall design? Do you know something they don't? There was a problem and they addressed it. The "originally intended design" was flawed. They fixed it. And well done, imo.

(name me five buildings in the US that looks like Vista)

Last edited by bhawk66; May 25, 2020 at 6:26 PM.
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  #7154  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 6:32 PM
Bombardier Bombardier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomrQT View Post
Are you aware that the blowthrough floor on the Vista is the result of an engineering mistake? Name 5 buildings in the US taller than Vista that didn't need a blowthrough hole. I'll wait. People celebrating such a huge mistake in building design, one that drastically interrupts the flow of the originally intended design, is so bizarre.
If Vista is currently #11, there is only 1 taller building in the US that has a blow through floor...
1 One World Trade Center - no blow through
2 Central Park Tower - no blow through
3 Willis Tower - no blow through
4 111 w 57th St - no blow through
5 One Vanderbilt - no blow through
6 432 Park Ave - several blow through floors
7 Trump international Hotel and Tower - no blow through
8 30 Hudson Yards - no blow through
9 Empire State Building - no blow through
10 Bank of America Tower - no blow through
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  #7155  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bhawk66 View Post
Mistake? So how could it have otherwise been avoided considering the overall design? Do you know something they don't? There was a problem and they addressed it. The "originally intended design" was flawed. They fixed it. And well done, imo.

(name me five buildings in the US that looks like Vista)
The simplest explanation always points to 432 park. If you understand the constraints well, elements like a blow through are purposefully incorporated into the design. The design reflects that understanding. It is an actual example of form following function. The design, after all, isn't just aesthetics. Vista has been a running exercise of fairly dramatic amendments to work function into a form.

I look at the gradient glass treatment and see a good solution to a change from the original intent. That also strikes me as the kind of thing the design team may typically have to do during any normal VE process. (I suspect angled glass would have been much better at reinforcing the shape, but the end result is still interesting)

But then you look at the blow through, the vents, the way the angled shear walls deeply encroach into the floor plans and they all look like a different kind of problem—things that are much easier to interpret as 'mistakes.' They have engineered outcomes, but I can't shake the thought that more experienced architecture firm would have better understood, or at least anticipated some of these constraints.

Personally, I would really love to see what kind of alternative solutions were offered to all of these big decisions. Like, why are the permitter shear walls angled, but then the perimeter columns are vertical and staggered? Was that really the best way to do it or is it a cost consideration? Would more frustums have been more structurally rigid, fewer? What if the vents were distributed up and down the whole building, but only in the waists where they would reinforce the "shadow" of the gradients?

Last edited by jc5680; May 25, 2020 at 8:32 PM.
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  #7156  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bhawk66 View Post
Mistake? So how could it have otherwise been avoided considering the overall design? Do you know something they don't? There was a problem and they addressed it. The "originally intended design" was flawed. They fixed it. And well done, imo.

(name me five buildings in the US that looks like Vista)
Yes, mistake, as in it was not intended in the original design and had to be incorporated for the safety of the people in the building. It was an engineering oversight that cost the developers interior space and interrupted the flow of the original design. If the city has to come to you and say "Uh guys, your building could blow over with the current design." then you made a mistake. This was a patch up job, not a well planned feature that was designed as a part of the overall product.
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2. American Radiator Building - New York City - Hood, Godley, and Fouilhoux - Photo
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  #7157  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 9:16 PM
bhawk66 bhawk66 is offline
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Originally Posted by HomrQT View Post
Yes, mistake, as in it was not intended in the original design and had to be incorporated for the safety of the people in the building. It was an engineering oversight that cost the developers interior space and interrupted the flow of the original design. If the city has to come to you and say "Uh guys, your building could blow over with the current design." then you made a mistake. This was a patch up job, not a well planned feature that was designed as a part of the overall product.
So lets pretend the timeline was different. Had they went through the motions of designing this building and it was discovered that the wind forces would create havoc on comfort levels they would have...

...designed in a blow through!

Do you think this building could have been built in NY without a blow-through? IT WAS NEEDED. Mistake? Fine. It was discovered and they solved it. Please tell us how this could have been built without it.
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  #7158  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 9:25 PM
bhawk66 bhawk66 is offline
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Originally Posted by jc5680 View Post
The simplest explanation always points to 432 park. If you understand the constraints well, elements like a blow through are purposefully incorporated into the design. The design reflects that understanding. It is an actual example of form following function. The design, after all, isn't just aesthetics. Vista has been a running exercise of fairly dramatic amendments to work function into a form.

I look at the gradient glass treatment and see a good solution to a change from the original intent. That also strikes me as the kind of thing the design team may typically have to do during any normal VE process. (I suspect angled glass would have been much better at reinforcing the shape, but the end result is still interesting)

But then you look at the blow through, the vents, the way the angled shear walls deeply encroach into the floor plans and they all look like a different kind of problem—things that are much easier to interpret as 'mistakes.' They have engineered outcomes, but I can't shake the thought that more experienced architecture firm would have better understood, or at least anticipated some of these constraints.

Personally, I would really love to see what kind of alternative solutions were offered to all of these big decisions. Like, why are the permitter shear walls angled, but then the perimeter columns are vertical and staggered? Was that really the best way to do it or is it a cost consideration? Would more frustums have been more structurally rigid, fewer? What if the vents were distributed up and down the whole building, but only in the waists where they would reinforce the "shadow" of the gradients?
Um, no. Form is most definitely following function. Like it....or don't.
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  #7159  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 9:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bhawk66 View Post
Um, no. Form is most definitely following function. Like it....or don't.
Lol, no. There are lots of aspects of this design we can happily debate but this is about as clear of an example of a modern building putting form before function you can have.

If you want to come up with some Gang-esque rationale as to how some sort of discovered efficiency in required floor-plan arrangements led to the interlocking frustum concept, I would love to hear it. Realistically it was a form, likely chosen for aesthetics, that has unfortunately has led to many very visible compromises. It is quite literally the antitheses of the form follows function mantra.

Last edited by jc5680; May 25, 2020 at 10:37 PM.
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  #7160  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bhawk66 View Post
So lets pretend the timeline was different. Had they went through the motions of designing this building and it was discovered that the wind forces would create havoc on comfort levels they would have...

...designed in a blow through!

Do you think this building could have been built in NY without a blow-through? IT WAS NEEDED. Mistake? Fine. It was discovered and they solved it. Please tell us how this could have been built without it.
You liking the blowthrough floor as your opinion is fine. You pretending that this blowthrough floor is well integrated into this project and doesn't stick out is just silly. You can do "what-if's" all day, the facts are this project was designed without a blow through floor and then they were forced to implement one. They did the best they could under the circumstances. If you are asking me if they could have created a better design from the beginning that had a blowthrough floor, sure, anything is possible before they break ground.
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2. American Radiator Building - New York City - Hood, Godley, and Fouilhoux - Photo
3. One Chicago Square - Chicago - HPA and Goettsch Partners - Photo
4. Chicago Board of Trade - Chicago - Holabird & Root - Photo
5. Cathedral of Learning - Pittsburgh - Charles Klauder - Photo
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