Kanata LRT EA - Bayshore to Palladium

[SkeggsEggs]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

You know where we could find those photos. Best I can come up with is the picture below. Different colours might represent elevated, surface, trench underground? God forbid they a. show the full diagram and b. add a key to the table.


https://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/...ute-announced/

I was about to link some tweets, but Qadri put some information on his site!

https://shadqadri.com/2017/12/08/kan...n-house-recap/

The presentation is at the end of link!

[J.OT13]

Thanks!

Bigger map with key. Quite a long stretch of elevated and 2 new underground stations (or open with underground sections on each end like New Orchard?)


https://shadqadri.files.wordpress.co...mendedplan.jpg

For a closer look, check out the link.

Looking at this, I'm warming up to the concept. Lots of potential for medium to high density development along the entire line.

[waterloowarrior]

Unfortunate that all the park and ride infrastructure is on the south side...

[eltodesukane]

With a Palladium station, the Senators could stay put.

[J.OT13]

I find the pedestrian bridge at Eaglesen ridiculous though. The BRIDGE IS RIGHT THERE! Why spend 15+ million on a pedestrian bridge meters away?

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Unfortunate that all the park and ride infrastructure is on the south side...

Saving some money on construction, followed by a century of inconvenience for all users.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I find the pedestrian bridge at Eaglesen ridiculous though. The BRIDGE IS RIGHT THERE! Why spend 15+ million on a pedestrian bridge meters away?

The area is very pedestrian unfriendly. You would have to cross 1-2 highway ramps to access the station and walk along a "raised safety curb" that was not maintained in the winter (there were supposed to be improvements after this article came out)
https://stittsvillecentral.ca/update...ot-a-sidewalk/

Even at the existing signalized crossing there is a lot of near misses. Someone was killed there a few years ago.

• Video Link

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Unfortunate that all the park and ride infrastructure is on the south side...

As someone who grew up in Kanata (but no longer lives there), I agree with the need for the pedestrian bridges. Eagleson is one of the most inhospitable Queensway interchanges in the city. There is now finally a sidewalk across the west side of the overpass, but it still requires crossing 2 high-speed ramps.

But looking at the design, I wonder why not just shift the platform east so that it is directly north of the bus terminal? At least then only 1 pedestrian bridge across the Queensway would be required.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

As someone who grew up in Kanata (but no longer lives there), I agree with the need for the pedestrian bridges. Eagleson is one of the most inhospitable Queensway interchanges in the city. There is now finally a sidewalk across the west side of the overpass, but it still requires crossing 2 high-speed ramps.

But looking at the design, I wonder why not just shift the platform east so that it is directly north of the bus terminal? At least then only 1 pedestrian bridge across the Queensway would be required.

If we're going to the trouble and expense of building an underground station anyway, why not spend a few bucks to have the station pass under the queensway to the park and ride side, then cross back to the other side

[SkeggsEggs]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

With a Palladium station, the Senators could stay put.

According to a tweet I read, they will build a pedestrian bridge from the station to the CTC, if they stay put.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Thanks!

Bigger map with key. Quite a long stretch of elevated and 2 new underground stations (or open with underground sections on each end like New Orchard?)


https://shadqadri.files.wordpress.co...mendedplan.jpg

For a closer look, check out the link.

Looking at this, I'm warming up to the concept. Lots of potential for medium to high density development along the entire line.

Why is most of the line elevated from Didsbury to Hazeldean? Seems like a waste of money to elevate it through a bunch of open fields.

[waterloowarrior]

Here is the Kanata West concept plan... derailed by the high tech crash, servicing and floodplain issues, but lots happening recently. Major stormwater management works are underway
https://kanatanorth.files.wordpress....cept-plan1.pdf

http://www.greenbinottawa.ca/calenda...V-POL-0011.htm





1140 units coming to the west side of Huntmar
https://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans...appId=__0AH1LJ

Richcraft just got approval for 945 units between Maple Grove and Hazeldean
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...raft-1.4368633



https://shadqadri.com/2017/11/10/ric...le-grove-road/

The City of Ottawa, Urbandale, and Capital Sports Properties (Ottawa Senators) own the land north of Maple Grove (page 17)
http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_Im...ng%20Study.PDF

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

Why is most of the line elevated from Didsbury to Hazeldean? Seems like a waste of money to elevate it through a bunch of open fields.

It is running close to a tributary of the Carp River. My guess (and it is just a guess) is they are running through wetlands and it would be to disruptive to build surface rail, but driving in pillars for elevated rail would be acceptable.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

If we're going to the trouble and expense of building an underground station anyway, why not spend a few bucks to have the station pass under the queensway to the park and ride side, then cross back to the other side

Keep in mind this is "below grade" not underground. Think Lees Station and not Lyon Station. The bridge structure to carry the 417 over the let (twice!) Would be way more expensive than a pedestrian bridge.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

The area is very pedestrian unfriendly. You would have to cross 1-2 highway ramps to access the station and walk along a "raised safety curb" that was not maintained in the winter (there were supposed to be improvements after this article came out)
https://stittsvillecentral.ca/update...ot-a-sidewalk/

Even at the existing signalized crossing there is a lot of near misses. Someone was killed there a few years ago.

You guys were able to convince me; maybe a pedestrian bridge is necessary. But the issues shown on this video, and the death a few years back further shows why pedestrians from all sides should get an exclusive period to cross before allowing vehicles to proceed.

Back to the LRT alignment*, I don't understand why they went with option 2 as opposed to option 3. It seems to me that, contradictory to what the City says, option 3 with Palladium Station east of the Corel Centre offers better potential for integration and ridership by having it smack down in the middle of the redevelopment. Furthermore, option 8 creates a longer guideway, increasing the cost and travel time. It also brings the station further from the future developments and closer to the Palladium Autopark (why would we need to serve an autopark?)

*See pages 20 to 28 of the presentation.
https://shadqadri.files.wordpress.co..._dec7final.pdf

As for the maintenance facility, expanding Moodie is definitively the best option to maximize potential developments sites in Kanata and Stittville.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It is running close to a tributary of the Carp River. My guess (and it is just a guess) is they are running through wetlands and it would be to disruptive to build surface rail, but driving in pillars for elevated rail would be acceptable.

That must be it. Can't really think of any other reason to put elevated track there.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

That must be it. Can't really think of any other reason to put elevated track there.

The other reason I can think of is that they are passing over a bunch of future suburban collectors near campeau and north / south of maple grove. They probably didn't know the alignment of each collector, and in any case figured it would be cheaper and less disruptive to development land to have the LRT stay elevated rather than have each road pass over the LRT (like the trillium line is doing in Riverside South).

[Horus]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

With a Palladium station, the Senators could stay put.

Originally Posted by SkeggsEggs

According to a tweet I read, they will build a pedestrian bridge from the station to the CTC, if they stay put.

If that were to happen, i hope they will have some mechanism for storing some extra trains nearby for event nights. Probably 95%+ of riders would all be traveling eastbound from CTC, so that station could be nightmarish in the hour after games or events at CTC.

At least at LeBreton, there will be some (more or less) even distribution of the load in multiple directions away from the new arena.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

The other reason I can think of is that they are passing over a bunch of future suburban collectors near campeau and north / south of maple grove. They probably didn't know the alignment of each collector, and in any case figured it would be cheaper and less disruptive to development land to have the LRT stay elevated rather than have each road pass over the LRT (like the trillium line is doing in Riverside South).

It's entirely possible, but I somehow doubt that would be the case. I don't see why they wouldn't just secure a corridor in the subdivision plan, like they did Avalon, and simply plan for grade-separated crossings.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

With a Palladium station, the Senators could stay put.

I don't think an LRT station at Palladium would affect the Senators business case much. The big problem is travel time from half of their market. The LRT won't really be any faster than the event buses, probably slower for those in the east end.