HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #15341  
Old Posted May 31, 2021, 7:42 PM
SIGSEGV's Avatar
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
He/his/him. >~<, QED!
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 5,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
There's a few benefits.
-shuttle operation allows higher frequencies on the branch with the same number of operators and equipment as today
-shuttle operation keeps more slots open on the mainline for South Chicago or suburban trains
-potentially it can simplify the diverging moves for South Shore trains by removing one set of conflicts

IMO the suburbs along ME are now very similar demographically to the city neighborhoods north of the Calumet River. On equity grounds, there is just as much need for good transit outside the city as inside. I don't see why we should accept a plan that improves service for city residents but keeps the low-frequency status quo for people in Riverdale, Dolton or Harvey. That means you need to run a lot of trains on the mainline south of Kensington, so it's helpful if you can distangle the Blue Island trains from that.
Yes, that makes sense (and a 130th st stop would help too on the mainline), but the density goes down quite a bit south of Harvey. The fact that Harvey has the south suburban bus hub though means that frequent service to Harvey is certainly justified.

Edit: I finished drawing up my RLX alternative proposal, with some modifications (only spot-checked, so maybe some egregious errors):



Some notes:


- Altgeld Gardens gets service on a "Hammond Shuttle" as well as more frequent, albeit less close service at 130th on the mainline. This may not be completely jusfied service-wise, but politically it would help, and providing Hegewisch with reasonable service would help connect that community more to the city. At that point, it's almost silly not to connect to Hammond, but Indiana would have to pony up a bit.
- Currently the Harvey local takes about 50 minutes. This "mainline service" has several stops added and removed, so hopefully it takes about the same. That's about the edge of what is reasonable I think. With an ~hour service time (including turnaround) it actually works out ok operationally I think.
- I also included a potential South Chicago line extension to Whiting, serving the East Side. This would have new stops on the south side of 95th (near Calumet Fisheries), Ewing, and the State Line (not sure exactly how that would work with the N-S yard there). This could continue to Whiting if Indiana ponies up, and maybe even farther if Indiana pays for it.
- Extending the Green Line to 63rd St makes a lot more sense with good Metra service, I think, although it may not happen.
__________________
And here the air that I breathe isn't dead.

Last edited by SIGSEGV; May 31, 2021 at 10:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15342  
Old Posted May 31, 2021, 10:16 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 9,118
I'm by no means an expert on train scheduling or the specific capacity constraints of the IC mainline, but I'll take your word for it. I can see how running the Blue Island trains as a shuttle could free up capacity but would the mainline need that much more capacity if they increased frequencies?

Tangentially related: If the Metra RIL gets electrification, would that raise the possibility of any service changes on the existing ME lines? I would like to see one excellent Blue Island station come out of it.

And while we're at it, and to come full circle back to the Red Line Extension, does anyone know if the idea of creating a new Metra line branching off the Metra RIL @ 79th and running down the UP through Roseland and Pullman instead of the bonkers RLE propsal using that row? You could have station at Vincennes/83rd and than maybe one around 95th and then hit all the stations called for in the lame RLE proposal.
__________________
Beatboxing under the bath water


He is a serpent.

Last edited by Busy Bee; May 31, 2021 at 10:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15343  
Old Posted May 31, 2021, 10:35 PM
SIGSEGV's Avatar
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
He/his/him. >~<, QED!
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 5,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post

And while we're at it, and to come full circle back to the Red Line Extension, does anyone know if the idea of creating a new Metra line branching off the Metra RIL @ 79th and running down the UP through Roseland and Pullman instead of the bonkers RLE propsal using that row?
I can't imagine that makes much sense unless it's continued to Dolton/South Holland/Chicago Heights or something.
__________________
And here the air that I breathe isn't dead.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15344  
Old Posted May 31, 2021, 10:39 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 9,118
You're right. And thank you for reminding me of my long held hope to see a new Dolton-Cal City-Lansing ME extension along the old removed PRR line to the state line. This would also create the potential to implement the Southeast Service long planned for as they would share tracks to Dolton.

So yes, if Metra RIL electification is pulled off, have a line leave the RIL at 79th, running through Washington Heights, Roseland, Pullman and joining again the ME and then branching SE in Dolton or not joining the ME and continuing through Riverdale then turning SE in Dolton. Oh the potential.
__________________
Beatboxing under the bath water


He is a serpent.

Last edited by Busy Bee; May 31, 2021 at 10:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15345  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2021, 8:49 AM
Mister Uptempo's Avatar
Mister Uptempo Mister Uptempo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
You're right. And thank you for reminding me of my long held hope to see a new Dolton-Cal City-Lansing ME extension along the old removed PRR line to the state line. This would also create the potential to implement the Southeast Service long planned for as they would share tracks to Dolton.

So yes, if Metra RIL electification is pulled off, have a line leave the RIL at 79th, running through Washington Heights, Roseland, Pullman and joining again the ME and then branching SE in Dolton or not joining the ME and continuing through Riverdale then turning SE in Dolton. Oh the potential.
As intriguing as it sounds, the old PRR ROW is not free and clear from Dolton to the state line.

There are houses built on the ROW along Greenwood Ave., between Sibley Blvd. and the Bishop Ford. The ROW would cut through the middle of a Home Depot parking lot at 170th and Torrence, and in Lansing there is a public park and Lansing's outdoor performance space, Fox Pointe to contend with.

But if those obstacles could be overcome, Metra might be able to partner with Amtrak on rebuilding those tracks. As has been mentioned recently, as part of its 2035 Vision, Amtrak plans on 8 round trips between CHI and IND with a 3 and a half hour runtime. Avoiding slow freight traffic getting out of Chicago would be key to reducing travel times.

If the Pennsy tracks could be rebuilt and CREATE Grand Crossing gets done, the new Hoosier State could take the soon-to-be-former Southwest Service tracks out of Union Station, a brief run on the NS Chicago Line (or a set of new, Amtrak-owned tracks) to Grand Crossing, onto the ME to the rebuilt PRR line at Dolton, turning onto the CSX Monon Sub just over the state line.

Failing that, the new Hoosier State might take the same route onto the ME, then onto the South Shore, utilizing the future West Lake extension onto the Monon Sub at Dyer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15346  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2021, 3:22 PM
OhioGuy OhioGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: HOU->CHI->CMH->DC->CHI->OAK
Posts: 7,590
Red-Purple Bypass Continues To Progress In Lake View
Chicago YIMBY | BY: JACK CRAWFORD | 7:30 AM ON MAY 31, 2021

(all images below are from the above article... where more are available)




Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15347  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2021, 4:55 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 9,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Uptempo View Post
As intriguing as it sounds, the old PRR ROW is not free and clear from Dolton to the state line.

There are houses built on the ROW along Greenwood Ave., between Sibley Blvd. and the Bishop Ford. The ROW would cut through the middle of a Home Depot parking lot at 170th and Torrence, and in Lansing there is a public park and Lansing's outdoor performance space, Fox Pointe to contend with.

But if those obstacles could be overcome, Metra might be able to partner with Amtrak on rebuilding those tracks. As has been mentioned recently, as part of its 2035 Vision, Amtrak plans on 8 round trips between CHI and IND with a 3 and a half hour runtime. Avoiding slow freight traffic getting out of Chicago would be key to reducing travel times.

If the Pennsy tracks could be rebuilt and CREATE Grand Crossing gets done, the new Hoosier State could take the soon-to-be-former Southwest Service tracks out of Union Station, a brief run on the NS Chicago Line (or a set of new, Amtrak-owned tracks) to Grand Crossing, onto the ME to the rebuilt PRR line at Dolton, turning onto the CSX Monon Sub just over the state line.

Failing that, the new Hoosier State might take the same route onto the ME, then onto the South Shore, utilizing the future West Lake extension onto the Monon Sub at Dyer.
Yes, there have been infringements over the years that would have to be removed, though I think a good 95% is clear. Good points thereafter.
__________________
Beatboxing under the bath water


He is a serpent.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15348  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2021, 9:07 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
I'm by no means an expert on train scheduling or the specific capacity constraints of the IC mainline, but I'll take your word for it. I can see how running the Blue Island trains as a shuttle could free up capacity but would the mainline need that much more capacity if they increased frequencies?
Metra Electric has a lot of potential that could be unlocked at relatively low cost. Hell, there is a full flying junction for the South Chicago branch and four tracks all the way to Kensington. But Kensington itself is a mess and needs to be rebuilt as a two-platform station (or maybe 3 platform). The four track mainline has a lot of capacity, but to unlock it you need to run trains with a lot of precision and predictability.

Quote:
Tangentially related: If the Metra RIL gets electrification, would that raise the possibility of any service changes on the existing ME lines?
I'm not sure what Metra means by "electrifying" RID, it's very unclear. There are a lot of overlapping plans for the future of RID that aren't necessarily compatible. It's an appealing corridor for planners because it's publicly-owned, largely grade-separated from other railroads and relatively free of freight.

These are the various ideas that I have heard from planners and officials:
-Shift SWS trains onto RID at 79th St
-Add 3rd track north of 79th St to 15th St
-Shift Amtrak St Louis trains onto RID at Joliet, with a link to Union Station at 40th St
-Shift Amtrak Michigan/East Coast trains onto RID at Englewood, with a link to Union Station at 16th St (instead of 40th) (this would also include Carbondale/New Orleans trains if Grand Crossing is built)
-Electrify RID for Metra operations

My best guess is that Metra needs to increase the average speed of their trains so that they can accommodate the nonstop Amtraks without blowing multiple holes in the daily schedule. Amtrak trains tend to arrive at unpredictable times too, due to freight conflicts elsewhere on the system that cause frequent delays. So it's best to have fast Metra service with plenty of flexibility to slot the Amtraks in whenever they get to Chicago.

The best way to speed up service is to electrify, switch to high-performance trains, and raise platforms to minimize dwell times. This is what Caltrain is doing to accommodate intercity trains on a busy commuter corridor, because it's cheaper than 4-tracking the whole thing. Of course, "electrifying" with battery locomotives does none of this. Same slow-ass trains, but even heavier this time! At least the air is sparkling!

Quote:
I would like to see one excellent Blue Island station come out of it.
IF St Louis trains move onto RID, they would no longer have a mid-suburban stop at Summit. Amtrak would probably try to replace the Summit stop with another stop along the RID corridor. I would probably assume Midlothian since it's the closest to the Tri-State and has a very nice stationhouse with room for an Amtrak ticket agent. However, Blue Island has a strong case to host an Amtrak stop if they want it, with multiple bus connections existing and the ME transfer. They could probably support a parking structure and certainly a more elaborate station.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...

Last edited by ardecila; Jun 1, 2021 at 9:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15349  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2021, 9:12 PM
SIGSEGV's Avatar
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
He/his/him. >~<, QED!
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 5,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Metra Electric has a lot of potential that could be unlocked at relatively low cost. Hell, there is a full flying junction for the South Chicago branch and four tracks all the way to Kensington. But Kensington itself is a mess and needs to be rebuilt as a two-platform station (or maybe 3 platform). The four track mainline has a lot of capacity, but to unlock it you need to run trains with a lot of precision and predictability.

----

I'm not sure what Metra means by "electrifying" RID. There are a lot of overlapping plans for the future of RID that aren't necessarily compatible. It's an appealing corridor for planners because it's publicly-owned, largely grade-separated and relatively free of freight.

These are the ideas that I have heard from planners and officials:
-Shift SWS trains onto RID at 79th St
-Add 3rd track north of 79th St to 15th St
-Shift Amtrak St Louis trains onto RID at Joliet, with a link to Union Station at 40th St
-Shift Amtrak Michigan/East Coast trains onto RID at Englewood, with a link to Union Station at 16th St
-Electrify RID for Metra operations

My best guess is that Metra needs to increase the average speed of their trains so that they can accommodate the nonstop Amtraks without blowing multiple holes in the daily schedule. Amtrak trains tend to arrive at unpredictable times too, due to freight conflicts elsewhere on the system that cause frequent delays.

The best way to speed up service is to electrify, switch to high-performance trains, and raise platforms to minimize dwell times. This is what Caltrain is doing to accommodate intercity trains on a commuter corridor, because it's cheaper than 4-tracking the whole thing. Of course, "electrifying" with battery locomotives does none of this. Same slow-ass trains, but even heavier this time! At least the air is sparkling!
I think only the Beverly/Morgan Park Branch of the RID really makes sense for electrification? Not sure there's much case past Blue Island.
__________________
And here the air that I breathe isn't dead.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15350  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2021, 2:30 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,038
Well certainly the "Suburban Branch" of RID would see benefits from electrification, yeah. But you lose a lot of the scheduling benefits if you don't go all the way to Joliet.

Trains going south of Blue Island could probably express north of there to achieve a speed that is comparable to Amtrak, but between Joliet and Blue Island the diesel-hauled trains would still provide an obstacle to Amtrak since they're making a lot of stops in the suburbs. That's why IDOT's original plan for the St Louis corridor included a 3rd track along the entire RID from Joliet to 15th St. But if they can electrify at Caltrain prices, full electrification is cheaper than a 3rd track.

I'll put it another way: right now, the scheduled time on Rock Island from Joliet to 35th is 37 miles in 60 minutes at an average speed of, well, 37mph. (35th is roughly where the St Louis trains would break off to go to Union Station). Per IDOT's own planning documents, St Louis trains can cover the same distance in only 25 minutes at an average speed of ~90mph. So unless Metra gets faster or Amtrak goes slower, or you add passing tracks, this means there needs to be a ~45-minute gap between Metra trains every time an Amtrak comes through!

Slowing down Amtrak doesn't help achieve the goal of "high speed service" to St Louis, and adding passing tracks is tricky because you need to know exactly where/when the meets occur. But Amtrak trains arrive at unpredictable times, so you need to basically add a full 3rd track to the entire shared line - very costly. Speeding up Metra trains with electrification is the best way to get Metra and Amtrak to share a high-quality schedule, and offers more bang-for-buck in terms of speeding up Metra trains from the status quo, which passing tracks cannot offer.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...

Last edited by ardecila; Jun 2, 2021 at 3:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15351  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2021, 7:00 PM
WrightCONCEPT's Avatar
WrightCONCEPT WrightCONCEPT is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
Not in the median of the freeway. Here
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
The yard could potentially go here: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7125.../data=!3m1!1e3

Here's what I would do if I were king:

First, RLX one stop to Bishop Ford / Cottage Grove / CSU, where a new ME station would be built. Put the yard where I mentioned. I would not be completely opposed to another stop at 103rd street serving Olive Harvey College and a giant park and ride lot.

Then we force Metra to run proper, fare-integrated local service at reasonable. This could look something like:

ME Commuter Service, which would only stop at Kensington/Bishop Ford/57th/McCormick/18th (game days only)/Museum Campus/Van Buren/Millenium. This could run at whatever frequencies Metra thinks are reasonable. Kensington would need some upgrades to be a 2-platform station.

ME Mainline Service from a new stop at 130 st/Altgeld Gardens to Millenium Station, running every 10-20 minutes depending on time of day. It would turn "expressish" north of 53rd street, skipping stops between 53 and McCormick Place. This would of course stop at the new Bishop Ford station. Eventually, some runs could be extended to stations at Brainard/131 and Hegesewich and maybe even Hammond (if NICTD pays for it).

ME South Chicago Service would run at 10-20 minute frequencies depending on time of day. This would pick up local stops between 53rd and McCormick (which would have 2-3 additional stops between 27th and 47th, perhaps at 35th and 41st). Eventually this could be extended to serve the East Side as well.

ME Blue Island service would operate as a branch line, interchanging at Kensington with 20-30 minute frequencies (depending on time of day). More frequencies can't be accommodated without making it double track and are probably unnecessary anyway.


If Metra refuses to do that, then CTA should take over at least 2 of the tracks in that corridor and ME would only operate the "Commuter" service.


A picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks for that. So in essence this Red Line Extension should really be paired with RTA/Metra Coordination rather than the typical operating silos.
__________________
"Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination." -Vin Scully

The Opposite of PRO is CON, that fact is clearly seen.
If Progress means moves forward, then what does Congress mean?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15352  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2021, 2:06 PM
OhioGuy OhioGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: HOU->CHI->CMH->DC->CHI->OAK
Posts: 7,590
With eye on CTA’s next big thing, Red Line South extension, Lightfoot breaks ground on next phase of North Side overhaul
Chicago Sun-Times | By Fran Spielman Jun 2, 2021, 4:33pm CDT

Quote:
With an eye on the next big thing — the $2.3 billion southern expansion of the Red Line — Mayor Lori Lightfoot on Wednesday broke ground on a North Side CTA project with funding firmly in place: reconstruction of four century-old stations and the track structures in between.

Five years ago, then-Mayor Rahm Emanuel moved heaven and earth to nail down $1.1 billion in federal grants to modernize the CTA’s Red Line before then-President Barack Obama left the White House.

Emanuel persuaded the City Council to authorize a transit tax-increment-financing district to provide the local matching funds that once would have been provided by a state capital bill and signed the ordinance on the final day for the city to demonstrate its commitment.

On Wednesday, Lightfoot joined CTA President Dorval Carter Jr. and U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., at a groundbreaking ceremony for yet another phase of the largest reconstruction project in CTA history.
Quote:
Carter was also asked about a bill approved by the Illinois General Assembly in recent days expanding that transit TIF and the impact it could have on securing funding for the long-stalled plan to extend the Red Line south to 130th Street from its current terminus at 95th.

“We need to make some changes to allow it to be a little bit easier to put the TIF in place for the Red Line extension project and to extend it to cover the rail yard that’s part of the project that would be at 130th Street,” Carter said.

“The legislation that passed down in Springfield was really a technical amendment to the transit TIF legislation … It wasn’t an expansion of funding in any way. It was really just making some procedural adjustments to the process by which you put a TIF in place.”
CTA’s Massive Reconstruction Project For Red And Purple Lines Includes New Stations, Tracks
By CBS 2 Chicago StaffJune 2, 2021 at 6:33 pm
Video Link
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15353  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2021, 4:47 PM
killaviews's Avatar
killaviews killaviews is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 491
Does anyone know how the track replacement is going to work? Will they tear down the embankment on the east and completely rebuild it? And how do you do that without damaging the west side? Sheet pile wall?

It’s going to be really impressive to watch. Here is a good Instagram I found with a view of the Bryn Mawr site:
https://instagram.com/brynmawrcta_st...dium=copy_link
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15354  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2021, 6:30 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,038
Here is a diagram of Phase 1. Looks like they will only shave off the crown of the existing embankment, and they will need to chip out full-height sections at each pier of the new structure. The girder spans are around 100' so around 6-7 piers per block. They will also chip out full height sections where required for station entrances.

I don't think there will be much need for a retaining wall/sheet piling along the centerline except at stations and a little bit at each street crossing since they are replacing the old abutments along each sidewalk. Outside of those areas, there isn't much height difference, they can probably just slope the soil.



Phase 2 is simpler since the piers will be offset from the existing west retaining wall - for this stage they will just park a caisson drill on top of the embankment and drill from there, no removal needed.

__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...

Last edited by ardecila; Jun 3, 2021 at 6:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15355  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2021, 7:04 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 9,118
Man those things are gonna be graffiti central. I hope Cta thought of that.
__________________
Beatboxing under the bath water


He is a serpent.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15356  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2021, 1:56 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,038
Yeah probably. The remains of the embankment will form a bunch of block-long "islands". CTA is supposed to secure them with fencing but that's never kept graffiti artists out before. It might be easier to just plant a bunch of bushes so the graffiti artists don't get big unbroken canvases.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15357  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2021, 3:25 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
graffiti artists
*snort*
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15358  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2021, 5:17 PM
montréaliste montréaliste is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chambly, Quebec
Posts: 1,928
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum View Post
*snort*
I'm pretty sure it was meant in the sense of "con artists".
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15359  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2021, 7:53 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 9,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Yeah probably. The remains of the embankment will form a bunch of block-long "islands". CTA is supposed to secure them with fencing but that's never kept graffiti artists out before. It might be easier to just plant a bunch of bushes so the graffiti artists don't get big unbroken canvases.
From someone who used to participate in my earlier years...trust me... If there's a will, there's a way.
__________________
Beatboxing under the bath water


He is a serpent.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15360  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2021, 10:04 PM
OhioGuy OhioGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: HOU->CHI->CMH->DC->CHI->OAK
Posts: 7,590
Nice video update of the Belmont flyover.

Video Link
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:18 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.