The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by lio45

What you meant was very clear; I’m just convinced (unlike you, apparently ) that by the point gasoline sales are completely gone in Canada, they will also be gone in most of the developed world, and there will be a glut of cheap oil from the Middle East and Russia at that point; oil being a fungible commodity at the global level, there will be no market for ours anymore.

You're probably right on that, but it's not entirely clear to me how that will play out at this point. The supply/demand situation will surely result in lower prices (and/or lower production), and greatly reduced income from exports. Adjustments will have to be made, one way or the other.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by casper

Tesla is not a tech computer any. It is an auto manufacture the same as Toyota or GM.

That's not how the market sees them.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

From a purely financial point of view, EVs aren’t yet that interesting, and that’s here in Quebec where we have the cheapest electricity in the world (or close). So let’s please NOT start adding taxes to them (yet).

People like myself are still burning dead dinos to move around as of 2022, and if you add new taxes to EV use, then we’ll just keep burning dead dinos even longer.

I have to admit I probably wouldn't have bought an EV at this point if it wasn't for the government subsidies.

Quebec also subsidizes your home EV charger (level 2) when you buy an EV.

[wg_flamip]

Originally Posted by lio45

From a purely financial point of view, EVs aren’t yet that interesting, and that’s here in Quebec where we have the cheapest electricity in the world (or close). So let’s please NOT start adding taxes to them (yet).

People like myself are still burning dead dinos to move around as of 2022, and if you add new taxes to EV use, then we’ll just keep burning dead dinos even longer.

We could always reduce the gas taxes and implement the same tax across the board for EVs and ICE vehicles.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

You're probably right on that, but it's not entirely clear to me how that will play out at this point. The supply/demand situation will surely result in lower prices (and/or lower production), and greatly reduced income from exports. Adjustments will have to be made, one way or the other.

It's not just EV buyers getting screwed over:

Edmonton man told to pay $2,400 'market adjustment' fee on new car he'd ordered — or lose it
Dealerships across Canada using loophole to conduct 'extortion' by jacking up prices, says auto expert
Erica Johnson · CBC News · Posted: Nov 21, 2022

Randy Lowry was excited to drive the new Kia Telluride he'd ordered from a dealership, but wasn't excited to learn about the car's new price.

When he went to pick it up, the sales manager at Kia West Edmonton told him there was an extra $2,400 "market adjustment" fee — and if he didn't pay, the sale was off.

"I said, 'No, we have an agreement,'" said Lowry. "He didn't seem to care."

He said the manager blamed the current auto shortage and said the price had gone up, period....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mar...ales-1.6653676

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It's not just EV buyers getting screwed over:

Edmonton man told to pay $2,400 'market adjustment' fee on new car he'd ordered — or lose it
Dealerships across Canada using loophole to conduct 'extortion' by jacking up prices, says auto expert
Erica Johnson · CBC News · Posted: Nov 21, 2022

Randy Lowry was excited to drive the new Kia Telluride he'd ordered from a dealership, but wasn't excited to learn about the car's new price.

When he went to pick it up, the sales manager at Kia West Edmonton told him there was an extra $2,400 "market adjustment" fee — and if he didn't pay, the sale was off.

"I said, 'No, we have an agreement,'" said Lowry. "He didn't seem to care."

He said the manager blamed the current auto shortage and said the price had gone up, period....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mar...ales-1.6653676

that's been happening for a while now, anyone buying a new car is apparently finding out that there is a new fee, due to the lack of inventory, you are basically being forced to pay a fee for the dealer selling you a car. It's a completely BS fee.

B.C. car buyers get post-sticker sticker shock with new 'market adjustment' fees

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...car-buyer-says

[Architype]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

that's been happening for a while now, anyone buying a new car is apparently finding out that there is a new fee, due to the lack of inventory, you are basically being forced to pay a fee for the dealer selling you a car. It's a completely BS fee.

B.C. car buyers get post-sticker sticker shock with new 'market adjustment' fees

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...car-buyer-says

It seems I would ask for a final agreement of the total cost, with a guarantee of no new additional fees or increases. If that's not possible, I would advisably factor in a contingency in the price.

[SpongeG]

in the article I posted it mentions

“Six provinces mandate all-in price advertising by auto-dealers,” George Iny said. “That means the post-pandemic ‘price adjustment’ must be included in the all-in advertised price for the vehicle.”

But B.C. has no such regulation in place.

kind of a shock to be told its a certain prive and than find out at the last minute oh by the way. Hate buying cars.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It's not just EV buyers getting screwed over:

Edmonton man told to pay $2,400 'market adjustment' fee on new car he'd ordered — or lose it
Dealerships across Canada using loophole to conduct 'extortion' by jacking up prices, says auto expert
Erica Johnson · CBC News · Posted: Nov 21, 2022

Randy Lowry was excited to drive the new Kia Telluride he'd ordered from a dealership, but wasn't excited to learn about the car's new price.

When he went to pick it up, the sales manager at Kia West Edmonton told him there was an extra $2,400 "market adjustment" fee — and if he didn't pay, the sale was off.

"I said, 'No, we have an agreement,'" said Lowry. "He didn't seem to care."

He said the manager blamed the current auto shortage and said the price had gone up, period....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mar...ales-1.6653676

This is clearly a money-grab by the dealer. I wonder what Hyundai/Kia Canada thinks about that. They are clearly not benefiting in any way from this situation, especially with the negative press they are receiving through no fault of their own (the dealer is a franchise owner who purchases the vehicles from the company at a fixed price - they are trying to squeeze customers for more money by basically selling the cars to a 'higher bidder').

[WarrenC12]

Dealerships are signing their death warrants. Tesla, Rivian, and anybody else who lets you order online are the future. Same price for everyone, you get in a line up generally based on when you committed a deposit. Seems pretty fair, imagine that.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

This is clearly a money-grab by the dealer. I wonder what Hyundai/Kia Canada thinks about that. They are clearly not benefiting in any way from this situation, especially with the negative press they are receiving through no fault of their own (the dealer is a franchise owner who purchases the vehicles from the company at a fixed price - they are trying to squeeze customers for more money by basically selling the cars to a 'higher bidder').

In a way, they’re benefiting from the shortage because they don’t need to provide incentives or subvented rates to dealers. They’ll respond by raising the MSRP if they see this as a trend, as they’ve already done (Telurides and Palisades have seen a huge price jump). I think Toyota has already announced that they’re looking at having more dynamic pricing for MSRP, which Tesla is already doing (ie adjusting monthly or quarterly rather than yearly). The Koreans are more price focused and may resist as a selling point, but eventually will follow industry trends.

Personally, I wouldn’t buy a new car in this market, but I think deals are to be had on the used market. Inventory is building up and dealers are cutting prices on cars they bought for well over what they’re worth now.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It's not just EV buyers getting screwed over:

Edmonton man told to pay $2,400 'market adjustment' fee on new car he'd ordered — or lose it
Dealerships across Canada using loophole to conduct 'extortion' by jacking up prices, says auto expert
Erica Johnson · CBC News · Posted: Nov 21, 2022

Randy Lowry was excited to drive the new Kia Telluride he'd ordered from a dealership, but wasn't excited to learn about the car's new price.

When he went to pick it up, the sales manager at Kia West Edmonton told him there was an extra $2,400 "market adjustment" fee — and if he didn't pay, the sale was off.

"I said, 'No, we have an agreement,'" said Lowry. "He didn't seem to care."

He said the manager blamed the current auto shortage and said the price had gone up, period....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mar...ales-1.6653676

Originally Posted by SpongeG

that's been happening for a while now, anyone buying a new car is apparently finding out that there is a new fee, due to the lack of inventory, you are basically being forced to pay a fee for the dealer selling you a car. It's a completely BS fee.

B.C. car buyers get post-sticker sticker shock with new 'market adjustment' fees

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...car-buyer-says

They f***** over my Dad too. 2022 Kia Sorento PHEV
Had a signed contract. Days before picking up vehicle (new car, it was shipped from Vancouver to Ontario) was told if he didn't pay extra fees they'd sell it for higher than retail to someone else because of limited supply. I forget the total but it was easily an extra $2-3k higher than initial signed contract when all was said and done

My Dad is a Septuagenarian. He had recently retired and wanted that exact car in that colour with all the options. He doesn't have time to wait so he capitulated.

Dealerships are crooked bastards

[Nouvellecosse]

Just like that CBC video said. Basically extortion.

[whatnext]

I wonder how much they make off charging stations? In BC I thought it was illegal to mark-up electricity bought from BC Hydro?

Gas-station operator Parkland doubles plans to install rapid EV chargers in Western Canada
ADAM RADWANSKI
PUBLISHED 2 HOURS AGO

One of the country’s largest gas-station operators is doubling its plans to install rapid chargers for electric vehicles at its locations in Western Canada – a possible glimpse of a more convenient future for EV drivers nationwide struggling with inadequate

Parkland Corp. PKI-T, which operates stations under brands such as Chevron, Esso and Pioneer, is announcing Friday that it now plans to install between two and four charging ports at 50 of its locations, up from the 25 announced last year. Most of the new chargers will be in British Columbia, along with two stations in Alberta.

The Calgary-based company’s expanded rollout is being partly subsidized by a $5-million federal grant and $1.8-million from the B.C. government.….

……At the same time, Parkland is trying to distinguish itself by addressing reliability concerns. Mr. Smart said each of its stations featuring EV chargers will have a technical specialist on site.…..

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...d-ev-chargers/

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I wonder how much they make off charging stations? In BC I thought it was illegal to mark-up electricity bought from BC Hydro?

There's probably some clever tricks they can pull to get around it like charging a steep rate for parking in any space close enough for the charger to reach. Or only offering it as a "free perk" for people subscribed to some membership program.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

There's probably some clever tricks they can pull to get around it like charging a steep rate for parking in any space close enough for the charger to reach. Or only offering it as a "free perk" for people subscribed to some membership program.

It's actually illegal to charge per kWh (or unit of power) unless you're BC Hydro.

Tesla and others charge per minute, and have tiers based on how much current is flowing.

They should just allow them to charge per kWh (like most states do), as long as they are tested for accuracy, etc.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It's actually illegal to charge per kWh (or unit of power) unless you're BC Hydro.

Tesla and others charge per minute, and have tiers based on how much current is flowing.

They should just allow them to charge per kWh (like most states do), as long as they are tested for accuracy, etc.

Which makes it kind of hilarious that the Government of BC is putting money toward charger incentives when the utility they own makes it harder. Bureaucracy at its finest!

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Which makes it kind of hilarious that the Government of BC is putting money toward charger incentives when the utility they own makes it harder. Bureaucracy at its finest!

It's a Federal Weights and Measures issue. Tesla among others is lobbying the government for a change.

[LightingGuy]

Good article on Canada's growing battery plant positioning. VW is considering building their plant in Canada (among other sites).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/financi...1e5442a35/amp/

[whatnext]

BMW is readying production for its hydrogen powered SUV:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...duction-start/