DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

[SIZE="3"]
Don't miss Ryan Dravitz's Cherry Creek Roundup JUL 2022

Lot's going on and he covers the landscape like a champ.

Walked it all in 96+ degree heat. If that’s not dedication I don’t know what is..

[TakeFive]

Side Pocket Topic - The Urban Plague

On a lark, I decided to check into urban poster child Seattle.

Recent Headlines

Amazon moves employees out of downtown Seattle office due to crime
March 12, 2022 - GeekWire

Law enforcement at all time low in WA; violent crime surging
July 20, 2022 - KIRO

Seattle struggles with 'reinventing' policing as crime soars
Jul 20, 2022 - The Center Square

Gun violence in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood has tripled in past year
July 18th 2022 - KOMO

This is NOT the place for debating problems and/or solutions but making observations might be good.

• Fentanyl is a growing social/crime menace.
• Crime, undeterred seems to grow. What a concept.
• Denver leads the pack in car thefts.
• It used to be a 'rite of passage' meant having sex; now it means our teens are packing heat.

The Vision Zero Dance

• Guy steals car, uses it in a burglary, crashes car fleeing the scene.
• Drunk Driver blows through red light, crashes.
• Driver under 25 years old, in a hurry rear-ends the car at the Stop Sign.

I don't have a particular problem with dropping the speed limit down to 20 mph. Just know the the problem drivers likely don't even know what the speed limit is or care. This should slow down those that aren't the problem though.

Observation

When the car thief gets caught, goes thru one door to be arrested, then da judge say "Son, don't do dat," releases him out the other door and says "go buy an ice cream cone," does it take this person even 24 hours to steal his next car?

How many 'gangsters' or 'sickos' care or even know what the gun laws are let alone one more law.

Maybe the people will decide to elect City Councilors that want to do something that moves the needle instead of just polishing up their resumes with new laws that accomplish nothing.

[mhays]

Yes and no. KOMO is basically Fox News these days. Downtown Seattle's gotten better with new leadership in January, including a new mayor and city attorney. Most of the camps are moved out, though office workers are around 35-40% normal, business travel is lagging, and the lack of police staffing is still a big problem, particularly for retail.

It's a wierd dichotomy...the standard 8,000+ housing units are underway, we keep starting office buildings (in the northern districts, despite very high vacancies in the old CBD), and the tourist districts are packed like 2019, but retail dependent on office workers and conventions has declined quite a bit, with way too many vacancies. Belltown, my residential-focused edge district, is like 2019.

[COtoOC]

Does anyone know what's going on with the development on the SE corner of Central Park Blvd. and MLK? I noticed yesterday that a fence is around the lot.

I know there was backlash years ago from nearby neighbors who apparently didn't read the "future site of high density, multi-family housing" sign when they bought their houses across the street from it. But hopefully this will finally be filled in. I assume it's probably just apartments or condos, but some retail there would also be nice.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Side Pocket Topic - The Urban Plague

On a lark, I decided to check into urban poster child Seattle.

Recent Headlines

Amazon moves employees out of downtown Seattle office due to crime
March 12, 2022 - GeekWire

Law enforcement at all time low in WA; violent crime surging
July 20, 2022 - KIRO

Seattle struggles with 'reinventing' policing as crime soars
Jul 20, 2022 - The Center Square

Gun violence in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood has tripled in past year
July 18th 2022 - KOMO

This is NOT the place for debating problems and/or solutions but making observations might be good.

• Fentanyl is a growing social/crime menace.
• Crime, undeterred seems to grow. What a concept.
• Denver leads the pack in car thefts.
• It used to be a 'rite of passage' meant having sex; now it means our teens are packing heat.

The Vision Zero Dance

• Guy steals car, uses it in a burglary, crashes car fleeing the scene.
• Drunk Driver blows through red light, crashes.
• Driver under 25 years old, in a hurry rear-ends the car at the Stop Sign.

I don't have a particular problem with dropping the speed limit down to 20 mph. Just know the the problem drivers likely don't even know what the speed limit is or care. This should slow down those that aren't the problem though.

Observation

When the car thief gets caught, goes thru one door to be arrested, then da judge say "Son, don't do dat," releases him out the other door and says "go buy an ice cream cone," does it take this person even 24 hours to steal his next car?

How many 'gangsters' or 'sickos' care or even know what the gun laws are let alone one more law.

Maybe the people will decide to elect City Councilors that want to do something that moves the needle instead of just polishing up their resumes with new laws that accomplish nothing.

That’s not an observation; that’s a nuance-lacking, trope-laden, myopic viewpoint that could be debated to death and exactly the kind of post that tends to derail this thread.

I agree with some of it, disagree with some of it, but I’m not going to clutter up this thread. Wrong forum.

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Gun violence in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood has tripled in past year
July 18th 2022 - KOMO

I don't want to start yet another off-topic argument thread, but I do want to talk about media literacy and statistical manipulation and how with media consolidation and the collapse of paid journalism it has become very, very important to be critical of all "news" stories and seek more information or secondary sources. This most definitely applies to articles about infill and development and imho is why social media NIMBYism is so popular.

• Click-bait-y headlines always use non-specific increases or decreases. Something tripling means nothing if the numbers are too low to be statistically significant or if the change is vs a statistical outlier. There were a bunch of NIMBY articles at the beginning of this year about how housing construction increased exponentially and open spaces were threatened, but they never mention that the increase was for 2021 vs 2020 and when you actually dig deeper you see that the numbers vs 2019 were lower. But most people share articles on social media based on headline alone, and the site gets ad revenue based on clicks (friendly or angry) regardless of whether you read the article or realize it is total junk. And because most corporate news outlets destroyed their internal advertising departments and handed the power to Google and other PPC advertisers, they are dependent on visits to the page and not on being a trusted source of information. They will definitely put total junk numbers in a headline just so you click it. And with all of these articles, the scarier the stat and headline the better.
• Year-over-year trends for sociological statistics are poor indicators of actual trends - there are too many factors and data points and variability to be able to accurately judge whether a single year increase or decrease is due to a real trend or some combination of other anomalies (what are the gun violence stats for Capitol Hill in 2000? 1990? 1960?). It is also useful to look at trends for larger areas than just single neighborhoods (what do the gun violence statistics look like for all of the Seattle metro area and not just Capitol Hill?) Housing construction is a good example of this too - everyone has been freaking out over the number of housing units built in Denver, but when you look at the entire metro area we're still building less than we were in the 80s, with a much larger population. If you just look at RINO it seem like there has never been so much construction in Denver, but when you look city-wide the picture is much bleaker.
• And I know I have said this before and no one likes it, but always question statistics coming from the cops. And while you're at it, question the stats from the city government. And the federal government. And the party not currently in power. Hell, you should question statistics from everyone. Reading this article you realize a) the 3x increase is from 4 total gun violence incidents last year to 12 so far this year with one fatal shooting. To me that doesn't seem like a horrible plague of violence, but it is still bad IF they're all random shootings. But if you know anything about police statistics and reporting you know they probably aren't. What we're talking about here: "... shootings that caused injuries or property damage..." - in police/municipal communications parlance this could include suicides and accidental discharges and someone shooting out a window in an empty building. And without a breakdown, this could be 11 people shooting themselves in the foot in their own homes and 1 incident of actual person-to-person violence. And even the interpersonal violence is something to question, because strangers shooting strangers on the street is a whole different issue for the community and policing approach than domestic violence incidents.
  
  The reason I bring this up is because the same rules about questioning everyone's statistics apply to development too - a big NIMBY focus in Denver over the last few years is the "shrinking green space" statistic, which is always presented as per capita and not total acreage (because acreage has increased, but not at the same rate as population) and is always shown in comparison to cities with a higher percentage of green space (never lower). This allows them to give the false impression that Denver is destroying green space for new construction and IF that number just happens to appear in an article next to someone talking about how most of Stapleton was empty fields 20 years ago or that there are new developments in Kiowa on virgin prairie or that someone built apartments with no back yard it makes it seem that the stat is about ANY non-developed land and not about actual public park space. Your approach to voting for a candidate or poorly-written initiative is going to be different if you believe the city is actively destroying park space instead of just not building enough. You might even agitate against infrastructure that prevents your house from flooding if you believe it is reducing your access to public spaces.

Through selective presentation of stats to journalists that don't have time or budget to question or research those statistics it is very easy to manipulate a "news" story to become something closer to propaganda. And this is something that NIMBYs have used to great advantage. Everyone in Denver (and elsewhere) is feeling the effects of high housing prices, we all see the homeless and the encampments and the disintegrating infrastructure. It is really easy to find quick scapegoats for all those things and offer solutions that appeal to everyone but that don't actually solve the issues because they are built on limited or faulty information. People blame high housing prices on new apartments and condos being built and not on historically low supplies of housing! They will be caught in bidding wars with other buyers and tell you with a straight face that they read an article and say they paid 100k over asking because of all the new construction in RINO.

If you care about the future of our cities it is important to approach these things very carefully and understand how and why opinions may be manipulated. It is important for any non-NIMBY to be vocal and clear about who is doing that manipulation and why they are doing it.

And honestly I think we're far past the point of being able to convince people with stats and facts and need to take the same tact as the NIMBYs:
"Not allowing dense housing to be built in our city center neighborhoods increases inequality, increases prices, and is inherently racist and destructive. All of those junkies and homeless camps are because rich people in central Denver neighborhoods would rather have mountain views and quaint "historic" neighborhoods and not have to deal with "high rises" or apartments. The no-high-rises NIMBYs have done more real damage to our city and its citizens than any scary corporation ever has. They are complicit in everything wrong with the city right now."

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by mojiferous

I don't want to start yet another off-topic argument thread, but I do want to talk about media literacy and statistical manipulation and how with media consolidation and the collapse of paid journalism it has become very, very important to be critical of all "news" stories and seek more information or secondary sources. This most definitely applies to articles about infill and development and imho is why social media NIMBYism is so popular.

• Click-bait-y headlines always use non-specific increases or decreases. Something tripling means nothing if the numbers are too low to be statistically significant or if the change is vs a statistical outlier. There were a bunch of NIMBY articles at the beginning of this year about how housing construction increased exponentially and open spaces were threatened, but they never mention that the increase was for 2021 vs 2020 and when you actually dig deeper you see that the numbers vs 2019 were lower. But most people share articles on social media based on headline alone, and the site gets ad revenue based on clicks (friendly or angry) regardless of whether you read the article or realize it is total junk. And because most corporate news outlets destroyed their internal advertising departments and handed the power to Google and other PPC advertisers, they are dependent on visits to the page and not on being a trusted source of information. They will definitely put total junk numbers in a headline just so you click it. And with all of these articles, the scarier the stat and headline the better.
• Year-over-year trends for sociological statistics are poor indicators of actual trends - there are too many factors and data points and variability to be able to accurately judge whether a single year increase or decrease is due to a real trend or some combination of other anomalies (what are the gun violence stats for Capitol Hill in 2000? 1990? 1960?). It is also useful to look at trends for larger areas than just single neighborhoods (what do the gun violence statistics look like for all of the Seattle metro area and not just Capitol Hill?) Housing construction is a good example of this too - everyone has been freaking out over the number of housing units built in Denver, but when you look at the entire metro area we're still building less than we were in the 80s, with a much larger population. If you just look at RINO it seem like there has never been so much construction in Denver, but when you look city-wide the picture is much bleaker.
• And I know I have said this before and no one likes it, but always question statistics coming from the cops. And while you're at it, question the stats from the city government. And the federal government. And the party not currently in power. Hell, you should question statistics from everyone. Reading this article you realize a) the 3x increase is from 4 total gun violence incidents last year to 12 so far this year with one fatal shooting. To me that doesn't seem like a horrible plague of violence, but it is still bad IF they're all random shootings. But if you know anything about police statistics and reporting you know they probably aren't. What we're talking about here: "... shootings that caused injuries or property damage..." - in police/municipal communications parlance this could include suicides and accidental discharges and someone shooting out a window in an empty building. And without a breakdown, this could be 11 people shooting themselves in the foot in their own homes and 1 incident of actual person-to-person violence. And even the interpersonal violence is something to question, because strangers shooting strangers on the street is a whole different issue for the community and policing approach than domestic violence incidents.
  
  The reason I bring this up is because the same rules about questioning everyone's statistics apply to development too - a big NIMBY focus in Denver over the last few years is the "shrinking green space" statistic, which is always presented as per capita and not total acreage (because acreage has increased, but not at the same rate as population) and is always shown in comparison to cities with a higher percentage of green space (never lower). This allows them to give the false impression that Denver is destroying green space for new construction and IF that number just happens to appear in an article next to someone talking about how most of Stapleton was empty fields 20 years ago or that there are new developments in Kiowa on virgin prairie or that someone built apartments with no back yard it makes it seem that the stat is about ANY non-developed land and not about actual public park space. Your approach to voting for a candidate or poorly-written initiative is going to be different if you believe the city is actively destroying park space instead of just not building enough. You might even agitate against infrastructure that prevents your house from flooding if you believe it is reducing your access to public spaces.

Through selective presentation of stats to journalists that don't have time or budget to question or research those statistics it is very easy to manipulate a "news" story to become something closer to propaganda. And this is something that NIMBYs have used to great advantage. Everyone in Denver (and elsewhere) is feeling the effects of high housing prices, we all see the homeless and the encampments and the disintegrating infrastructure. It is really easy to find quick scapegoats for all those things and offer solutions that appeal to everyone but that don't actually solve the issues because they are built on limited or faulty information. People blame high housing prices on new apartments and condos being built and not on historically low supplies of housing! They will be caught in bidding wars with other buyers and tell you with a straight face that they read an article and say they paid 100k over asking because of all the new construction in RINO.

If you care about the future of our cities it is important to approach these things very carefully and understand how and why opinions may be manipulated. It is important for any non-NIMBY to be vocal and clear about who is doing that manipulation and why they are doing it.

And honestly I think we're far past the point of being able to convince people with stats and facts and need to take the same tact as the NIMBYs:
"Not allowing dense housing to be built in our city center neighborhoods increases inequality, increases prices, and is inherently racist and destructive. All of those junkies and homeless camps are because rich people in central Denver neighborhoods would rather have mountain views and quaint "historic" neighborhoods and not have to deal with "high rises" or apartments. The no-high-rises NIMBYs have done more real damage to our city and its citizens than any scary corporation ever has. They are complicit in everything wrong with the city right now."

Amen brother

[TakeFive]

I thought I thread the needle fairly well

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

That’s not an observation; that’s a nuance-lacking, trope-laden, myopic viewpoint that could be debated to death and exactly the kind of post that tends to derail this thread.

What some might have missed it was my previous post about a new Cherry Creek office building that triggered my 'Observations.' So in case you (and others) missed the connection let me repeat it:

"Why would we commute downtown when we can be right here: safe, clean, with all these walkable amenities?"

mojiferous wants to talk about housing density and other complicated things. But if Cherry Creek is safe and clean while downtown not so much that would seem to be an argument in favor of LESS density not more.

With respect to Seattle
it turns out one of Amazon's engineers was hit in the head with a baseball bat leaving the office after work. That's when Amazon closed down the whole damn building. Over the last couple of years Amazon has been building new space in Bellevue; they're now looking for space in Redmond which is where Microsoft is headquartered. Apparently, these suburban communities are much safer.

With respect to San Francisco
Ten years ago it was a bright shining star. Today people can't leave fast enough. Their tolerance for crime has hit a wall.

With respect to Denver

Fox31 lists the neighborhoods with the most crime here.
They also list the safest neighborhoods here.

At the risk of being overly dramatic, I'm simply pointing out that letting problems fester can lead to companies deciding to relocate if their employees don't feel safe. Perhaps that might mean moving to RiNo, who knows?

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

mojiferous wants to talk about housing density and other complicated things. But if Cherry Creek is safe and clean while downtown not so much that would seem to be an argument in favor of LESS density not more.

With respect to Seattle
it turns out one of Amazon's engineers was hit in the head with a baseball bat leaving the office after work. That's when Amazon closed down the whole damn building. Over the last couple of years Amazon has been building new space in Bellevue; they're now looking for space in Redmond which is where Microsoft is headquartered. Apparently, these suburban communities are much safer.

With respect to San Francisco
Ten years ago it was a bright shining star. Today people can't leave fast enough. Their tolerance for crime has hit a wall.

With respect to Denver

Fox31 lists the neighborhoods with the most crime here.
They also list the safest neighborhoods here.

At the risk of being overly dramatic, I'm simply pointing out that letting problems fester can lead to companies deciding to relocate if their employees don't feel safe. Perhaps that might mean moving to RiNo, who knows?

Density has no direct correlation with safety, by your rules I could compare Cherry Creek and Westwood and come to the opposite conclusion. But you know what does correlate really well with neighborhood crime rates? Average income and property values! And denser, mixed use neighborhoods have been shown to raise both across all demographics.

Also important to reducing crime rates is providing opportunity and decent standards of living for everyone in the city - crime is higher where people see no possible future for themselves, and Denver, Seattle, and SF have all done a bang-up job of improving the real estate values of high-income neighborhoods while absolutely destroying any opportunity for anyone making less than 150k a year.

I want to be clear that I am not arguing that crime is not an issue, or that homelessness isn't getting worse - but rather that it is all tied very tightly together with our built environment and inequality and opportunity. We can continue to dump money into police and highways and endless houses further and further out or we can work to change our cities to address the problems we are facing. It is becoming ever more clear, especially based on your examples, that the current solutions are not working.

[TakeFive]

This feels more relatable

Originally Posted by mojiferous

Density has no direct correlation with safety, by your rules I could compare Cherry Creek and Westwood and come to the opposite conclusion. But you know what does correlate really well with neighborhood crime rates? Average income and property values! And denser, mixed use neighborhoods have been shown to raise both across all demographics.

I'm glad you bring up Westwood. Yes, lower socioeconomic areas usually have more crime. They also provide housing at a lower and affordable cost for a lot of people. Westwood is one of my favorite neighborhoods, tons of wonderful people live there.

Instead of Westwood let's call it Maryvale and envision a neighborhood about 5X the size of Westwood. Yes, there is crime, especially around 27th Ave which is 27 blocks west of Central Ave or comparable to being west of Broadway in Denver. But down here with a neighborhood 5X the size of Westwood there's lots of opportunity. I often drive workers home even if they speak little English, they find jobs and they work hard and they live in a cheap 'hood and they're grateful.

There's also a good police presence in Maryvale and they don't let language be a barrier to solving crimes. Police will utilize bilingual (Hispanic) speakers to communicate that they're there to help and not to check on legal status.

This is good to hear

Originally Posted by mojiferous

I want to be clear that I am not arguing that crime is not an issue, or that homelessness isn't getting worse

For people who are victims of crime it's personal, not something in the abstract. With respect to homeless they may be a blight but not necessarily a menace. My concern is primarily with "crime."

Most people would likely see San Francisco as the 'capitol' of liberalism. Turns out they recently recalled their District Attorney and replaced the DA with a "tough on crime" person who came in and cleaned house and hired a whole new 'crew.' Time will tell but even liberals only have so much tolerance - for crime.

[TakeFive]

Nicely stated

Originally Posted by mojiferous

We can continue to dump money into police and highways and endless houses further and further out or we can work to change our cities to address the problems we are facing. It is becoming ever more clear, especially based on your examples, that the current solutions are not working.

This a bit speculative but intriguing and it's hard for me to keep up with the changing world.

Amazon’s Bellevue tower pause may be a sign we’re entering an era of ‘untransit’
July 20, 2022 By Danny Westneat - Seattle Times columnist

This piece is in reference to Amazon putting the breaks on 5 new office towers to give them time to better assess future needs.

The evidence that remote work is here to stay just got serious. As serious as empty skyscrapers in Bellevue.

Amazon told the Puget Sound Business Journal it still intends to hire 15,000 more workers affiliated with its Bellevue operations (for an eventual total of 25,000). But it isn’t sure yet how often those workers will be at the physical office towers. So it doesn’t know how to configure the towers for the coming hybrid working world.

This is where things start to get interesting.

“Land-use law’s separation of work from home, and the emphasis on transit to maintain this separation, seems increasingly antiquated in an era of rising demand for remote work,” writes Stephanie Stern, a professor at the Chicago-Kent College of Law, in a recent paper in Stanford Law and Policy Review.

Here's the key point.

Stern coined the provocative term “untransit” to describe what she suspects is about to happen — a breakup of century-old work/life urban design patterns.

Some of the changes are likely to be godsends. Taking even 10% of daily commuters off the congested roads has long been a dream of traffic planners.

Here is what you may not want to hear.

Stern predicts that telecommuting will promote sprawl into the hinterlands, along with larger houses to accommodate home offices. Inequality may rise. Meanwhile dense cities may decline (not that they will shrink, necessarily, but their growth rates may slow).

Mark Hallenbeck generally agrees.

Mark Hallenbeck, director of the University of Washington’s Washington State Transportation Center, has forecast we will probably see “less office space required downtown, lower economic activity in urban centers, and lower transit use into urban centers.”

If work shifts from downtowns to neighborhoods, then both need to change.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I thought I thread the needle fairly well

With respect to Seattle
it turns out one of Amazon's engineers was hit in the head with a baseball bat leaving the office after work. That's when Amazon closed down the whole damn building. Over the last couple of years Amazon has been building new space in Bellevue; they're now looking for space in Redmond which is where Microsoft is headquartered. Apparently, these suburban communities are much safer.

Not really related.

Also, relevant to mojiferous's great post about misleading headlines etc., those five Bellevue office towers aren't on hold...only their interior buildouts. A sixth tower will be postponed.

[bunt_q]

Well we just decided to increase our downtown office space by 70%, and upgrade buildings too, notwithstanding our permanent hybrid work arrangements. We dinosaurs are going to keep downtown kicking, one insignificant small business at a time! As it turns out, a nice view in a tall building still swings a few partner votes, at least relative to working on the kitchen counter at home.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Well we just decided to increase our downtown office space by 70%, and upgrade buildings too, notwithstanding our permanent hybrid work arrangements. We dinosaurs are going to keep downtown kicking, one insignificant small business at a time! As it turns out, a nice view in a tall building still swings a few partner votes, at least relative to working on the kitchen counter at home.

I'm just fine working in my office without a newborn who needs constant attention that I WOULD have permission to leave to my husband but wouldn't, in practice, be able to do. I'm also happy living closer to cultural attractions, shopping (not walmart etc), history, plenty of other people to meet etc. A nice view in a tall building would also certainly swing my vote if anyone asked.

I'm curious how this entire conversation about downtowns dying is framed as EVERYONE will want to work from home because going to a downtown inherently sucks. Is that true? Do we all believe the only way to have people and activity downtown is to force them there to go to work? Or is it just crime up = downtown bad?

I also have no trouble believing violent crime is "increasing". Especially since we've seen lately what the police do when they KNOW someone has a gun and is shooting. So why not start blaming cops and asking the police departments to start doing their jobs or lose money like we do with schools. Maybe we need some sort of charter departments like we have with schools, there are no lack of ideas about what may help reduce crime, maybe it's time to put some of those to the test. If they perform they get the money that traditional stations get. If they don't they don't.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

...With respect to Denver

Fox31 lists the neighborhoods with the most crime here.
They also list the safest neighborhoods here.

At the risk of being overly dramatic, I'm simply pointing out that letting problems fester can lead to companies deciding to relocate if their employees don't feel safe. Perhaps that might mean moving to RiNo, who knows?

Anecdotally, I've spoken to more than a few consultants, engineers, architects, etc who are actively moving out of dtown to RiNo for the current security issues downtown. Employees quite literally don't want to go downtown for work anymore. LoDo, fine, Ballpark, fine. RiNo, awesome. Times they are a changing in Denver. The City would be wise to smarten up sooner than later because the writing is on the wall.

[MovinOnUp]

Does anyone know the history, or possibility that Bail Bonds row in the Golden Triangle could get redeveloped? Was down there this weekend and it stands out like a sore thumb (has as long as I can remember). Saw this project in Toronto, and it got me wondering is someone could preserve the houses while still developing the site?

https://goo.gl/maps/RRhVfiJeQ5mZ6A7B8

[UrbanT]

Love that idea ^ I’ve always thought those homes would make a great restaurant row!

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by laniroj

Anecdotally, I've spoken to more than a few consultants, engineers, architects, etc who are actively moving out of dtown to RiNo for the current security issues downtown. Employees quite literally don't want to go downtown for work anymore. LoDo, fine, Ballpark, fine. RiNo, awesome. Times they are a changing in Denver. The City would be wise to smarten up sooner than later because the writing is on the wall.

So the CBD is a no go area? Time to start converting more office space to residents. Encourage more concealed carry as well.

[TakeFive]

Congratulations!

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Well we just decided to increase our downtown office space by 70%, and upgrade buildings too, notwithstanding our permanent hybrid work arrangements. We dinosaurs are going to keep downtown kicking, one insignificant small business at a time! As it turns out, a nice view in a tall building still swings a few partner votes, at least relative to working on the kitchen counter at home.

It seems to be a good time for this type of decision.

But you might want to consider the addictive nature of this. For many, many decades, through thick and thin, all these law firms have been attached to downtown like it was an adorable puppy. Hold the phone... there's now one law firm, a large one, that has decide to move out of downtown; they've announced they'll be moving All - The - Way - Out to RiNo.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by mhays

Also, relevant to mojiferous's great post about misleading headlines etc., those five Bellevue office towers aren't on hold...only their interior buildouts. A sixth tower will be postponed.

I understand Amazon's timing was clumsy since they already had 5 towers under construction when they decided to hit the Pause button.

I would also agree that mojiferous articulates his ideas well and I love/respect his passion. But honestly I wasn't looking to re-litigate issues that have been vigorously debated many times before. That's why I tried to focus like a laser beam on crime.

You live on the West Coast. Do you ever recall San Francisco holding a recall election to get rid of a 'soft on crime' district attorney. I can't and my memory goes back to the Haight, Ashbury days when Janis Joplin lived at 635 Ashbury St.



And I don't ever recall a Denver developer suggesting that if company wants their employees to be in a safe, clean place then come here, don't go there.

With respect to adding residential density

Not only in Seattle and Denver but new multifamily permits are strong across the country, easily being the category leader over all other types of construction. How long this holds is hard to project but Blackstone's latest global RE fund is raising $1 billion every three days and has raised $30B since March.

The Denver City Center has been adding residential units for a good dozen years and 'Right Now' it feels like a record number of units are being built, especially in neighborhoods adjacent to downtown. I'm skeptical it get's any better than this.