Parliament Hill Rehabilitation Project

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

Sorry, i thought shimmy tournament and pond hockey tournament were the same thing...

No, I think a "shimmy" tournament is set to music.

[Acajack]

The barrier to holding it at Lansdowne is that the Senators can't stand OSEG, Jeff Hunt and company for a variety of reasons, including the stadium plan for Kanata that Melnyk had put together for CFL and soccer teams out there.

Hunt and OSEG won that battle and Melnyk and the Sens organization have been bitter ever since.

I assume they will all get over this tiff eventually, sit on their egos a bit, and not let the opportunity of a 2017 NHL outdoor game slip through Ottawa's fingers.

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The barrier to holding it at Lansdowne is that the Senators can't stand OSEG, Jeff Hunt and company for a variety of reasons, including the stadium plan for Kanata that Melnyk had put together for CFL and soccer teams out there.

Hunt and OSEG won that battle and Melnyk and the Sens organization have been bitter ever since.

I assume they will all get over this tiff eventually, sit on their egos a bit, and not let the opportunity of a 2017 NHL outdoor game slip through Ottawa's fingers.

The larger issue is big business. The Senators are associated with Molson Coors, whereas Lansdowne is associated with Labatt (Bud).

[daud]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The barrier to holding it at Lansdowne is that the Senators can't stand OSEG, Jeff Hunt and company for a variety of reasons, including the stadium plan for Kanata that Melnyk had put together for CFL and soccer teams out there.

Hunt and OSEG won that battle and Melnyk and the Sens organization have been bitter ever since.

I assume they will all get over this tiff eventually, sit on their egos a bit, and not let the opportunity of a 2017 NHL outdoor game slip through Ottawa's fingers.

Yes, the animosity was there. I often wondered if Melnyk was the mystery financial backer of "Friends of Lansdowne". He stood more to lose than anyone-competition for sports dollars (look at early senators attendance right now), enterainment dollars-concerts etc.. The tension was so thick for quite a while with Mayor Watson and Melnyk.

At the same time, Greenbergs have a box and are passionate senators fans so they're a client too and there were rumours of investment at one point. And Melnyk is partnering with Trinity on the Lebreton proposal; who also have a stake in Lansdowne adn co-own the redblacks.

I would hope Melnyk can revisit Lansdowne, for the game attendee, it would be far more accomodating-and its right next to the canal where the stanley cup ended up in, one evening 100 years ago!

[McC]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No, I think a "shimmy" tournament is set to music.

Ten points for Gryffindor!

[zzptichka]

Isn't TD Place owned by the City and only operated by OSEG?
Melnyk has a beef with the City over casino and soccer stadium and doesn't want Ottawa to get any money generated by him. That's why hosting a game on NCC lands made so much sense for him.

[acottawa]

The League was not pushing for this, the senators were. If the senators do not want to do it anymore the league isn't going to push for it.

I continue to think the senators would have major concerns about filling seats at Lansdowne. Their attendance this year has been terrible (24th in the league) despite the team doing well and they're discounting seats like crazy.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The League was not pushing for this, the senators were. If the senators do not want to do it anymore the league isn't going to push for it.

I continue to think the senators would have major concerns about filling seats at Lansdowne. Their attendance this year has been terrible (24th in the league) despite the team doing well and they're discounting seats like crazy.

Not a concern whatsoever. The only chance TD Place is not filled is if the cheapest seats cost something like $300. Habs fans alone will be able to fill it if the prices are reasonable.

[zzptichka]

BTW, as far as I know, NHL outdoor games financials work this way:

- League pays for everything
- League takes all gate revenue
- League pays Sens back sellout CTC gate revenue
- Sens get concessions and merchandise revenue

So, compared to a typical Ottawa-Montreal game at CTC Melnyk is getting only some extra merchandise revenue (could make even less on beer if it's cold outside). In the end the City will probably make more money on the TD Place game than Senators. You can see why Melnyk is not too thrilled about it.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Not a concern whatsoever. The only chance TD Place is not filled is if the cheapest seats cost something like $300. Habs fans alone will be able to fill it if the prices are reasonable.

I suspect the NHL and the Senators may not share your confidence. Previous outdoor games have been held in cities that consistently sell out (and there is pent up demand for tickets). A team that is only selling 78% of its tickets (4th last in the league ahead of Brooklyn, Arizona and Carolina) and is currently discounting tickets to OHL levels may not inspire a lot of confidence it can sell 40,000 tickets.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I suspect the NHL and the Senators may not share your confidence. Previous outdoor games have been held in cities that consistently sell out (and there is pent up demand for tickets). A team that is only selling 78% of its tickets (4th last in the league ahead of Brooklyn, Arizona and Carolina) and is currently discounting tickets to OHL levels may not inspire a lot of confidence it can sell 40,000 tickets.

Well, there was one between the Devils and Islanders, neither of which come remotely close to selling out on a regular basis. And neither Buffalo or St. Louis are guaranteed sell outs either.

I'm not sure where you would get the idea that the Sens don't want this game. Every report on the possibility notes that they are the ones pursuing it. Why? Because the game is a big money maker for the team. If the Sens weren't confident that they were going to make money, they a) wouldn't be pursuing the game and b) definitely wouldn't have been pursuing it at a location that required millions in extra infrastructure investment.

The Sens have had a slow start to the season attendance-wise, but have enjoyed healthy attendance for years before that. That doesn't mean they couldn't sell 40,000 seats for a special event. They can.

[YOWflier]

Blah. An outdoor game will sell out ... easily. Anyone thinking otherwise is likely a fan of some opposition looking to stir the pot.

Ottawa always supports these types of events very strongly, be it FIFA U18, Women's World Cup, World Junior Championships... The latter is actually an interesting example considering one of the so-called hockey "meccas" in this country found it embarrassingly difficult to sell tickets for it in 2015.

[Acajack]

An outdoor game at Lansdowne that's part of the 2017 celebrations to boot, will definitely sell out.

And Melnyk will eventually get on board despite his reservations. He doesn't want to look like a grinch, after all.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by phil235

Well, there was one between the Devils and Islanders, neither of which come remotely close to selling out on a regular basis. And neither Buffalo or St. Louis are guaranteed sell outs either.

I'm not sure where you would get the idea that the Sens don't want this game. Every report on the possibility notes that they are the ones pursuing it. Why? Because the game is a big money maker for the team. If the Sens weren't confident that they were going to make money, they a) wouldn't be pursuing the game and b) definitely wouldn't have been pursuing it at a location that required millions in extra infrastructure investment.

The Sens have had a slow start to the season attendance-wise, but have enjoyed healthy attendance for years before that. That doesn't mean they couldn't sell 40,000 seats for a special event. They can.

St Louis has sold 96.6% of its tickets this year, Buffalo 96.5%. New Jersey and Long Island have never hosted an outdoor game (although technically they were the home teams when they played the Rangers at Yankee stadium). Among the bottom ten in NHL attendance (Calgary, Anaheim, New Jersey, Colorado, Florida, Columbus, Ottawa, NY Islanders, Arizona, Carolina) only Colorado has ever hosted an outdoor game.

I think the senators are worried about money. If Ottawa hosts a winter classic they have to give up their parking revenue, their arena advertising revenue, their bar/restaurant revenue and their regular concessions and only have concessions from the outdoor game and a 1/31 share of the overall profit. If the league doesn't make a significant profit or their concession revenue is lower than at the CTC (not sure what the concession contracts at Lansdowne look like) then they're out money.

I think the League is also worried about money. They have to take all of the risk and have really nothing to gain by facilitating Ottawa's Canada 150 efforts.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

BTW, as far as I know, NHL outdoor games financials work this way:

- League pays for everything
- League takes all gate revenue
- League pays Sens back sellout CTC gate revenue
- Sens get concessions and merchandise revenue

So, compared to a typical Ottawa-Montreal game at CTC Melnyk is getting only some extra merchandise revenue (could make even less on beer if it's cold outside). In the end the City will probably make more money on the TD Place game than Senators. You can see why Melnyk is not too thrilled about it.

That's pretty much exactly how the Grey Cup will work at Lansdowne next year, so you probably aren't far off. The only difference is that OSEG might be getting a cut of the Senators profits, depending on how involved the Senators are.

[zzptichka]

From Melnyk's personal point of view Parliament Hill Game is a great chance to get into history books without giving up anything.
TD Place Game, on the other hand, is a big hassle to organize that will be forgotten in a couple of years.

[ars]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I suspect the NHL and the Senators may not share your confidence. Previous outdoor games have been held in cities that consistently sell out (and there is pent up demand for tickets). A team that is only selling 78% of its tickets (4th last in the league ahead of Brooklyn, Arizona and Carolina) and is currently discounting tickets to OHL levels may not inspire a lot of confidence it can sell 40,000 tickets.

This season is not normal so far in terms of attendance since the Sens have not had an average attendance of lower than 18k in any season since the end of the 04/05 lockout. Clearly there is something else at play here.

There is no doubt in my mind that an outdoor game would sell out in Ottawa.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by ars

This season is not normal so far in terms of attendance since the Sens have not had an average attendance of lower than 18k in any season since the end of the 04/05 lockout. Clearly there is something else at play here.

There is no doubt in my mind that an outdoor game would sell out in Ottawa.

Ok, but whatever conditions make this year "not normal" may still be in place next fall.

[DubberDom]

Originally Posted by Catenary

That's pretty much exactly how the Grey Cup will work at Lansdowne next year, so you probably aren't far off. The only difference is that OSEG might be getting a cut of the Senators profits, depending on how involved the Senators are.

OSEG owns the concessions, so you are probably right on that one... something would need to be negotiated

what's in it for the Sens? Similar to when they hosted the World Juniors, they can use first access to Outdoor game tickets to sell more season tickets, or ticket packages.

Last I checked, Alfie tickets are still available to the general public in 3 game packs and also available as single game seats to season ticket holders.

The issue I think with the Sens is it lacks any real sense of "experience", especially now that the RedBlacks are here, much better experience at football... need to do something before Lebreton move in 5 years to drum up excitement

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

St Louis has sold 96.6% of its tickets this year, Buffalo 96.5%. New Jersey and Long Island have never hosted an outdoor game (although technically they were the home teams when they played the Rangers at Yankee stadium). Among the bottom ten in NHL attendance (Calgary, Anaheim, New Jersey, Colorado, Florida, Columbus, Ottawa, NY Islanders, Arizona, Carolina) only Colorado has ever hosted an outdoor game.

I think the senators are worried about money.

Like I said, if the Sens were worried about selling tickets, they wouldn't be pursuing this. The team wants this game. They have made that very clear.

Ottawa is never a bottom 10 team in attendance over the course of a full season. Neither the Sens nor the NHL are going to make any decisions based on attendance stats from five early season home games.