High Speed Rail and Amtrak News

[Okstate]

Originally Posted by PacificNW

↑ I don't know whether to take your comment "just escaped prison" personally offensive, or not.

I was actually specifically referring to the coast starlight route. I've ridden on the cascades as well numerous times & the comparison can't be made with the cascades. Maybe it was a rare occurrence. I've certainly hung out with my fair share of bad apples in my day & there were vast similarities.

[zilfondel]

Nobody said they need to make the Sacramento - Eugene route high speed; it would likely be too expensive. However, there is an opportunity to fix the rail that goes to southern oregon; would cost a lot less money. The existing Amtrak line does not use that route (goes by K-Falls, which is a complete pit).

Since nobody flies to the Medford area from anywhere in Oregon, there might be some people who would use the service.

The rail line (UP or something?) should be at least doubletracked from Eugene to Portland, at the very least. Last time I rode the train down to Eugene, the train almost fell over it was wobbling back and forth - it desperately needs to have the old, rotten ties replaced and the track rebuilt, like the WES. Double-tracking would also eliminate most of the delays, which are a major reason why people won't ride in the first place!

[rsbear]

Originally Posted by zilfondel

Since nobody flies to the Medford area from anywhere in Oregon, there might be some people who would use the service.

As of December 26, 2008, there are eight non-stop flights a day from PDX to Medford.

[PacificNW]

I have ridden the Coast Starlight numerous times so I guess you should put me in the basket with the rest of the "bad apples".

[Okstate]

^ If you hike up you pants on one leg, have gold teeth, & blow smoke into your childrens face...then yes. If not, then no.

[PacificNW]

Deleting my initial response....it's not worth it trying to make a point.... The "hike up your pants on one leg, have gold teeth, ............" comment comes off as being "uppity", imo. Now, I need to spend time with my "basket of bad apples" friends and relatives.. I guess I should look into taking the train..

[Okstate]

^it's uppity to NOT blow smoke in kids faces?

[Okstate]

Originally Posted by zilfondel

Double-tracking would also eliminate most of the delays, which are a major reason why people won't ride in the first place!

I agree. If i could be guaranteed an easy trip up to Seattle i'd take the train no question. As it is I'm at least always worried that something bad will happen.

[JordanL]

Originally Posted by NJD

^ My source says the city has talked to the new(ish) owners of the silos (and Vulcan who owns the old Red Lion site next door), and that the owners of the silos would be willing to negotiate especially if it involved building new silos further downstream where the river sees less traffic and has fewer bridges to navigate around. No real talks will occur until HSR Cascades is actually approved, which the NARP has tentatively slated for the 2nd run of federally funded HSR lines (which means at least a decade away from design starts). I cannot confirm this, but the source is reliable.

As for ticket prices, they are a prime example of basic business demand pricing. Remember that the French TGV is very modern, reliable, affordable, and a profitable branch of their Department of Transportation. Until there is adequate ridership (and competition) the prices will stay high, and there will be more and more demand as Americans stop subsidizing autos and airplanes and start wanting more comfortable, safer and more modern alternatives to driving and flying. Rail is the most efficient means of transport other than by sea. On an even playing field with autos and airlines, after a comparable system gets built, the railroad will be cheapest, safest and most comfortable means of travel.

Isn't airline travel safer?

I'm pretty sure it had 1/3 as many deather per 100,000 passengers as rail...

[maccoinnich]

I think it depends how you measure it. By some measures, rail is the safest mode of transport, by others, it's air. But either are incredibly safe when compared to driving. I would suspect most people know very few, if any, people who have been killed or seriously injured on a plane or train. Most probably knew a few people who have been killed in car crashes.

[NJD]

^ Apparently since Superman was bankrolled to say so in his last movie: air travel is 'the safest way to travel' in the US, but not worldwide, and yes I was mostly mentioning 'safer' as a comparison to America's most common and deadly weapon.

[NJD]

Op-ed piece

Cascadia high-speed rail: It's time
by Brad Perkins, guest opinion, The Oregonian
Thursday February 26, 2009, 12:00 PM



It's time to take steps to implement Cascadia high-speed rail between Eugene and Vancouver, B.C. High-speed rail would be faster and more comfortable than automobile or short-distance air travel. This new electrically powered, double-track rail line would move people and freight at least 110 miles per hour and avoid all grade and river traffic interruptions.

The extra benefit to high-speed rail in Portland is the addition of a new east-bank high-tech passenger rail station on Paul Allen's and the city's property along the Willamette River across from Memorial Coliseum. The new Rose Garden Transit/Tourism Station's main pedestrian entrance would be central to the MAX light-rail center, planned bicycle paths and future streetcar stops. This new activity hub would spur economic growth to help justify financing a new outdoor entertainment center, a Veterans Memorial Baseball Stadium, hotels and restaurants.

Vancouver, Wash., citizens would greatly benefit because the new multi-track high-speed rail could act as a commuter alternative as well. From a new park-and-ride stop from Vancouver's Northwest 39th near the I-5 exit to the new Rose Garden Transit Station by high-speed rail would take seven minutes. From Portland to Eugene, it would take 75 minutes.

Federal investment in high-speed rail would benefit both freight operation and passenger service. Freight rail companies see the advantages in cooperation. The new interstate rail freeway for freight and passengers would have double tracks, concrete tie base and new high-grade steel rails. Existing rail right of way would be used where practical. Tunnels, elevated tracks, bridges and earth cuts would avoid unreasonable curves, elevations, roads and waterways.

On a national level, American citizens think that developing high-speed rail corridors would create thousands of jobs, reduce road congestion and pollution, and improve freight capacity, business productivity and energy conservation. In the Nov. 30, 2008, issue of Parade magazine, people were asked if they preferred cash rebates to repairing our nation's infrastructure. Sixty-seven percent of Americans preferred focusing on infrastructure improvements that develop faster and better trains.

The $787 billion economic recovery bill signed by President Barack Obama on Feb. 17 dedicates $8 billion to high-speed rail. Obama wants to make high-speed rail a signature achievement of his presidency. He said, "The time is right for us to start thinking about high-speed rail as an alternative to air transportation connecting all these cities. Think about what a great project that would be in terms of rebuilding America."

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is working with the White House to jump-start high-speed rail nationally. The Eugene to Vancouver, B.C., corridor is one of 11 corridors designated for possible high-speed rail development. There is much to be done regionally before LaHood assigns priority funding for the engineering and development of the Cascadia high-speed rail line.

Rep. Peter DeFazio and Sen. Ron Wyden have been most helpful in emphasizing the need for the Cascadia line. State Rep. Chip Shields and I have worked together on a bill to be introduced in the Oregon House to form a High-Speed Railway Task Force. It would coordinate with high-speed rail efforts in Washington and British Columbia to determine potential corridor route, economic impact, investment opportunities, freight and passenger capacity, etc.

Let the Northwest lead America toward a greener 21st century.

[urbanlife]

actually a funny thought, high speed rail could actually produce more sprawl because people would then be able to live even further away and commute to work via high speed rail...of course it would have to be set up that way, but I would guess that it wouldnt be long of a commute to go from Eugene to Portland for work if you wanted to.

[bvpcvm]

Originally Posted by NJD

Op-ed piece

Cascadia high-speed rail: It's time
by Brad Perkins, guest opinion
Thursday February 26, 2009, 12:00 PM

i'd like to request that people include sources - where was this published?

[PacificNW]

↑ I found the link:

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2009/02/cascadia_highspeed_rail_its_ti.html

[NJD]

^ oops, usually 'The Oregonian' includes its own name in its articles. updated.

[deasine]

I would love to see this happen as well, but we have to make sure there are proper R.O.W. to make this actually work well. I know in Vancouver, BC, there is a lack of proper railways that would make these high speed trains work to its full advantage. Something like this would require the partnership of Governments of all levels, on both sides of the border... which would be very hard to do.

[electricron]

This new electrically powered, double-track rail line would move people and freight at least 110 miles per hour and avoid all grade and river traffic interruptions.

The existing Cascades trains are capable of 110 mph if the tracks and signals support it. While Oregon lawmakers/politicians would like new trains on new ROW, what's so wrong with the existing ROW that can be fixed cheaper.
WSDOT already has a long range to increase speeds of the Cascades trains that will only cost $6.5 Billion in 2006 dollars by 2023. I'm sure with Obama in the White House that this schedule could be quicken considerably.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/AE6...F31/0/LongRangePlanforAmtrakCascades.pdf

Destination...............1994..2003..2023
Portland to Seattle.....3:55..3:30..2:30
Seattle to Vancouver...N/A..3:55..2:37
Vancouver to Portland..N/A..N/A..5:22

It's 187 rail miles between Seattle and Portland. In 1994, the trains averaged 47.7 mph. In 2003, 53.4 mph. In 2023, 74.8 mph. WSDOT plan consists of eliminating most slow order sections of tracks.

Improvements identified by WSDOT and cooperating agencies and organizations include:
�� Upgrading grade crossings to ensure safe passage of trains, vehicles and pedestrians;
�� Increasing speeds to improve corridor capacity and travel times;
�� Enhancing train control signals to improve corridor capacity, increase train speeds, and enhance safety;
�� Purchasing new passenger train equipment to operate along the corridor to increase frequencies and decrease travel time;
�� Improving stations and their ability to serve neighboring communities and to provide connections to other modes of travel; and
�� Upgrading tracks and facilities to relieve congestion, improve ride quality and safety, increase train speeds, and improve corridor capacity. In addition to these improvements, WSDOT intends to continue to actively market the program to the public, and work closely with Amtrak to ensure that day-to-day operations meet customer expectations.

It is important to note that no long-term financial commitments have yet been made by any of the various funding entities that are described in this plan. However, this long-range plan assumes that the major capital construction projects that are needed to support expanded Amtrak Cascades service in the Pacific Northwest will be funded in the following manner:
�� Projects necessary to provide faster, more frequent Amtrak Cascades service between downtown Portland, OR and the Columbia River will be funded by the State of Oregon, with potential funding coming from the federal government and Amtrak.
�� Projects necessary to increase the level of Sounder commuter rail service in the central Puget Sound region will be funded by Sound Transit and the federal government.
�� Projects necessary to provide faster, more frequent Amtrak Cascades service between the Columbia River and the Canadian border will be funded by the State of Washington, with potential funding coming from the federal government and Amtrak.
�� Projects necessary to improve Amtrak Cascades service in British Columbia will be funded by the province of British Columbia, the Canadian federal government, and regional transportation agencies.
�� Train sets and locomotives will be funded by the States of Oregon and Washington, with additional funds provided by Amtrak and the federal government.
�� The Seattle Maintenance Facility will be funded by Amtrak, the federal government, the State of Washington, and Sound Transit.
�� Station improvements will be funded jointly by local jurisdictions, regional, state and provincial governments, and the federal governments of the U.S. and Canada.
�� The new rail bridge across the Columbia River will be funded by the railroads, the States of Washington and Oregon, and the federal government.
�� Projects that provide a direct benefit to the BNSF Railway Company will be funded by the railroad.

Revised Cost Comparison Associated with High-Speed Ground Transportation
Technology Type of Corridor Estimated Cost*
Tilt and Conventional Trains (90 to 110 mph)Existing Rail Right-of-Way $1 to $5 million/mile
Tilt and Conventional Trains (up to 125 mph) Existing Rail Right-of-Way $3 to $7.5 million/mile
Tilt and Conventional Trains New Corridor $10 to $45 million/mile
Maglev New Corridor $20 to $50 million/mile
*In 1997 dollars (Note Pacific NW construction costs are significantly higher than the National average)

74.8 mph average speeds is as good as Amtrak's Acela trains running on the NE Corridor. Between Boston and New York City, where Acela reaches its highest speeds of 150 mph, it averages only 62.85 mph.
Assumptions: Boston to New York City is 220 rail miles. Amtrak's schedule reads 3 hours and 30 minutes.

I believe WSDOT has a good plan worth implementing at significantly lower costs.

[zilfondel]

Originally Posted by rsbear

As of December 26, 2008, there are eight non-stop flights a day from PDX to Medford.

Wow, I had no idea. And orbitz says 12. Hmm... I guess I should fact-check more!

It also indicates that there is definitely a market for intercity travel in Oregon. Medford is small with a Metro of 200k. We really need to link up all the cities and towns within 2 hours of Portland first, but I think that an IC/regional train to southern oregon would work, as it could offer intermediate stops along the way that airplanes don't offer. Ie, who flys Medford to Grants Pass


Oh, and those tickets from Medford to PDX? They cost $200. Greyhound costs $83, but takes 6 hours (!!!). I think this makes a good argument for train service, and would have the advantage of being able to serve many more communities than flying would (short hop service - limited vs express).

[JordanL]

Originally Posted by zilfondel

Wow, I had no idea. And orbitz says 12. Hmm... I guess I should fact-check more!

It also indicates that there is definitely a market for intercity travel in Oregon. Medford is small with a Metro of 200k. We really need to link up all the cities and towns within 2 hours of Portland first, but I think that an IC/regional train to southern oregon would work, as it could offer intermediate stops along the way that airplanes don't offer. Ie, who flys Medford to Grants Pass


Oh, and those tickets from Medford to PDX? They cost $200. Greyhound costs $83, but takes 6 hours (!!!). I think this makes a good argument for train service, and would have the advantage of being able to serve many more communities than flying would (short hop service - limited vs express).

I've flown from Medford to Portland...

Let me tell you that is a MISERABLE airport... I had been up for 38 hours, and was on my last leg back from Tokyo (via San Francisco).

But yeah, Medford gets decent travel, and the air service is a bit spotty because it gets weather and weight restriction regularly...