LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[Scotchman]

Originally Posted by caligrad

Not to be a negative nancy.....or Karen if you will........I'm happy its getting done and all that....But....I figured a station right next to a few Gehry projects and museums and arts institutes would be....oh I don't know....kinda artsy? lol looks very easy/streamline or cookie cutter if you will. The red line Hollywood stations are more interesting, even Tho they are gimmicky. This station screams get on and get off..... or does metro plan on adding some color later? So local art work would even work tbh. Murals and etc. hell some 80s retro neon lights stranger things style would even make me happy.

Some information on the three Regional Connector stations' art installations: https://art.metro.net/artworks/in-th...rks-connector/

This is going into the Broadway Station: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN2-6FWjmps

[caligrad]

^^^ Ah. Well that answered my question. Thanks

[edale]

I couldn't care less about having 'art' in the new subway stations. The cost of our infrastructure projects is already mind bogglingly high-- I'm fine with more or less utilitarian, functional stations. Keeping them clean and safe should be the priorities, and let the visual interest be the city above ground.

In fact, I think many of the Red Line stations are way over-designed and look gimmicky. It's a subway station, not a ride at Universal Studios.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by edale

I couldn't care less about having 'art' in the new subway stations. The cost of our infrastructure projects is already mind bogglingly high-- I'm fine with more or less utilitarian, functional stations. Keeping them clean and safe should be the priorities, and let the visual interest be the city above ground.

In fact, I think many of the Red Line stations are way over-designed and look gimmicky. It's a subway station, not a ride at Universal Studios.

Aesthetic appeal is obviously not fundamentally necessary, but that doesn't mean it's not important, especially when we're talking about the premier city on the West Coast.

[SC_00_05]

Looks matter, agree, especially since it's likely not changing again in our lifetimes.

That being said, anybody who has ever used the Pershing square station can tell you exactly what the biggest problem with these stations are (assuming they're not afraid of speaking the truth), and it has nothing to do with art or looks, haha.

[edale]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Aesthetic appeal is obviously not fundamentally necessary, but that doesn't mean it's not important, especially when we're talking about the premier city on the West Coast.

I can't recall public art being common features on the subways I've ridden in London, New York, Berlin, Rome, DC, Chicago, Shanghai, Singapore....

The stations should look sleek and modern, and they should be maintained clean and safe. But I don't think every metro station needs murals, sculptures, or neon light installations, especially when infrastructure costs are as high as they are. Ideally, the headways should be short enough that people aren't having to stand around forever trying to keep themselves entertained by the public art of the station.

There are some Metros that are famous for their aesthetics. Montreal has lots of art in its metro stations. Moscow has stations that look like museums. DC and Montreal have the whole brutalist aesthetic going for them. Paris has some very pretty stations, and of course the famed art nouveau entrances at some stations. But by and large, I'm content to let a subway stop be a subway stop. LA has way bigger fish to fry in terms of civic beautification than making its metro stations prettier.

But really, this is all moot since the new stations will be getting sizable art installations

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by SC_00_05

That being said, anybody who has ever used the Pershing square station can tell you exactly what the biggest problem with these stations are (assuming they're not afraid of speaking the truth), and it has nothing to do with art or looks, haha.

When in some ways the city of detroit in 2022 is cleaner than the city of San francisco....or dtla.....is, you know nothing is easy or predictable.

https://youtu.be/GnFGYqj2UQA

dtla actually is a major example that anything is possible. It originally was one of the most beaten down major urban areas in the country...the world too....in a slow decline for over 50 yrs. It still suffers from aspects of its past & skid row is easily one of the most depressing places in america. But the same thing is seen in a variety of other cities too.

Somehow the arts district in dtla is emerging next to skid row, & the cultural scene in dt is increasingly on an upward slant.

When you add up all the ironies & contradictions....of dtla, LA & other cities....the height or number of floors of new projs & the quality of the architecture is merely one of many factors that ultimately counts.

[Easy]

Metro stations need to be fit for purpose and that includes being designed for human occupancy which includes aesthetics and art. Metro targets 1% of the project budget for art and I think amount is very typical for stations that have been built in the US and Europe over the last 40 years.

It’s really no different than how other public spaces are designed. We tend to take such things for granted but it’s all part of making a city livable.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by edale

I can't recall public art being common features on the subways I've ridden in London, New York, Berlin, Rome, DC, Chicago, Shanghai, Singapore....

The stations should look sleek and modern, and they should be maintained clean and safe. But I don't think every metro station needs murals, sculptures, or neon light installations, especially when infrastructure costs are as high as they are. Ideally, the headways should be short enough that people aren't having to stand around forever trying to keep themselves entertained by the public art of the station.

There are some Metros that are famous for their aesthetics. Montreal has lots of art in its metro stations. Moscow has stations that look like museums. DC and Montreal have the whole brutalist aesthetic going for them. Paris has some very pretty stations, and of course the famed art nouveau entrances at some stations. But by and large, I'm content to let a subway stop be a subway stop. LA has way bigger fish to fry in terms of civic beautification than making its metro stations prettier.

But really, this is all moot since the new stations will be getting sizable art installations

I actually wasn't even thinking about art installations and murals. Those are nice, sure, but I was thinking more of station design and materials, things that people will actually be interacting with, walking on. Functional art rather than fine art pasted on like an afterthought.

The murals and stuff seem like they're going to be at the very ends of the platforms or the mezzanine levels. As others have mentioned, the walls on the platform levels look like they belong on the side of a freeway, and the floors look like concrete sidewalk with poorly aligned pavers with very obvious panel gaps. I'd personally prefer even forgoing art installations in favor of higher end materials and better fit and finish. Hopefully they touch up some of these things before they go live.

And the LA Metro is capable of doing all these things too, as seen in their other stations with interesting tile flooring and seating. It just feels like they tried to do this as cheaply as possible.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by homebucket

And the LA Metro is capable of doing all these things too, as seen in their other stations with interesting tile flooring and seating. It just feels like they tried to do this as cheaply as possible.

The metal ceiling in the station with the tiled columns looks very grimy & the monitor attached to it...with something hanging from it...is damaged?

I think LA having stations that are dressed up with art is fine....but money for maintenance is necessary too. Another thing: the ppl factor often seems to be absent. Even before Covid, metro stations & sidewalks in dtla or LA in general weren't exactly packed.

Based on the number of ppl out on sidewalks, If I didn't know better, I'd think LA was a small city. It's like everyone here lives in their cars...stuck on crowded fwys. So instead of busy sidewalks, LA has busy roadways.

This is the Brazilian version of dtla's little Tokyo....in sao paolo. I'm going to think of this when I'm caught in traffic jams on the fwys all around dtla, yet dt itself....including in little tokyo....doesn't have as many ppl out & about as you'd think there would be based on fwy congestion.

https://youtu.be/jCt1YeycRMY


^ The ppl factor in dtla is what I first think of before I think of the number of stories or height of a bldg or whether the ground floor color of new devlpt is ideal or not. Ex: the base of the Grand ave proj across from disney hall has a paint job that's not my favorite. But I also wonder if there will be enough visitors to support its retail businesses. The same question really applies to the Oceanwide proj further south.

[Illithid Dude]

I am very okay with Los Angeles having clean, modern, utilitarian stations. This is how they do it in Asia, and nobody is complaining about the quality of Hong Kong or Tokyo's metro systems.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I am very okay with Los Angeles having clean, modern, utilitarian stations. This is how they do it in Asia, and nobody is complaining about the quality of Hong Kong or Tokyo's metro systems.

I think that's a perfectly acceptable position to take, but these new LA Metro stations look nothing like HK's MTR stations.

[bhunsberger]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I am very okay with Los Angeles having clean, modern, utilitarian stations. This is how they do it in Asia, and nobody is complaining about the quality of Hong Kong or Tokyo's metro systems.

Amen. I actually prefer a more modern, clean, sterile looking subway station. I do not like the pastel colored tile or that ugly tile on the platform floor in both of those station photos. I'd much rather have a concrete/stainless steel look with a few pieces of wall art, as I believe I have seen in a Hollywood station or two.

[hughfb3]

I find it interesting that both Los Angeles and San Francisco have a core <2 mile downtown light rail subway project under construction at the same time and both debuted interior station pictures at the same time. They are very similar in that both are under 2 miles, have years delay and cost overruns. The San Francisco transportation thread has pictures of their interiors. Hmm

[Scotchman]

Doesn't matter how the LA Metro Stations look, if this continues to escalate:

https://vimeo.com/701346094

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Scotchman

Doesn't matter how the LA Metro Stations look, if this continues to escalate:

https://vimeo.com/701346094

You should see the stuff on NYC's and Chicago's subways. Not any better. I wouldn't call that esclating either, has that video has crimes from 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022.
Its not like that's all from last week or month

[Scotchman]

Originally Posted by LA21st

You should see the stuff on NYC's and Chicago's subways. Not any better. I wouldn't call that esclating either, has that video has crimes from 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022.
Its not like that's all from last week or month

LA Metro was trying block the release of these videos.

Time stamp matters not to me. Still, I wouldn't get on one of those trains.

In any event, hopefully the Regional Connector is a success.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Scotchman

LA Metro was trying block the release of these videos.

Time stamp matters not to me. Still, I wouldn't get on one of those trains.

I recently watched a vid about how sections of downtown detroit right now are actually less grungy than parts of san francisco are. I've seen videos of new yorkers moving to LA or Miami bch. I've watched vids of Sao Paolo in brazil and buenos aires in argentina....impressed by how much street life they have. Yet I read how a woman in buenos Aires around 5 yrs ago was mugged several times at the ATM she used.

A few weeks ago I watched a vid about one of the most expensive penthouses for sale in tokyo....it was nice but the residence & bldg in general, by the standards of the US....inc dtla....weren't wow! impressive.

Each city has its good points & bad points. However, dtla was in a slump for decades, perhaps the worst suffered by any major city in the world. Yet today it is showing more potential not seen in over 90 yrs.

If DTLA can pull through, any dt...any city...can too.

In the meantime, if NYC was worst over 40 yrs ago...back in the 1970s....than I previously didn't realize just how low it became....this in 2022 has way too much graffiti for my standards...

https://youtu.be/Dd5ZmIxVPHg

This view was even more touch & go several yrs ago...before the new Perla apt bldg was added to broadway....but the apt, hotel & office bldgs proposed for both sides of 4th & Hill need to be added asap.

NYC is a work in progress, Same thing with SF, Detroit, chicago, etc. DTLA is very much a work in progress too. All cities go through ups & downs. If a city is lucky, its down times won't be too deep & won't last too long. But, again, dtla was in fairly weak shape for over 50 yrs.


• Video Link

[black_crow]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I am very okay with Los Angeles having clean, modern, utilitarian stations. This is how they do it in Asia, and nobody is complaining about the quality of Hong Kong or Tokyo's metro systems.

I would go so far and say that L.A. tried to copy some of those metro stations. I know Tokyo very well and some those pictures remind me of the Shibuya metro station (for example) and others.

Not as pretty as some of those in Europe.. but clean and functional.

To be fair: Tokyo has some great metro stations like the Tama-Center station. So what? L.A. isn't Europe or Asia. I am okay with that design. We saw a lot of progress over the last 10-15 years. Just keep it up.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Scotchman

LA Metro was trying block the release of these videos.

Time stamp matters not to me. Still, I wouldn't get on one of those trains.

In any event, hopefully the Regional Connector is a success.

It's over a 4 year period. And nyc sees worse. It's all over their tik tok