BUFFALO | Development Thread

[Downtown Bolivar]

^^^The city would be nuts to turn this down--completely nuts--especially if Kaleida Health follows through and closes Millard Fillmore Gates Circle. The area needs a catylyst now so that the land the hospital is on is attractive for development shortly down the road. An abandoned hospital is a target for blight which could adversely affect property values in the whole neighborhood.

At any rate projects like this one, Buffalo City Tower, and Dulski prove that the city no longer has to beg for development. If this one dies, I'm willing to bet that something similar gets proposed elsewhere--perhaps closer to downtown. I know that people are really nervous of this getting killed off by nimbys, but there are nimbys in every city, especially in on the West Coast and the Northeast. The developers are big boys and girls--they can handle it.

On a completely different note, I'm sick to death of hearing that Buffalo has nothing good on the water. Next time you hear someone say this, offer to take 'em for ice cream or a beer at the Erie Basin. It's got a great summer vibe--lots of people there, great views of the lake and downtown. You can't beat it. People who say there's nothing on the watefront don't really know Buffalo.

[BUFFALOVE!!]

Originally Posted by westcoastperspective

Does anyone really think the city is going to turn the Gates tower down? As long as Uniland follows the environmental review laws, on what grounds can the tower be stopped by the neighbors?

well I went to the planning board meeting for this about a month or so ago and the one rule Uniland did break that’s an actual rule is that they are like six feet short of green space on one side (which I think is F*ing retarded.) you guys should have herd what those old slobs were complaining about at that meeting. Too much traffic on Lancaster, parking on the street, a new curb, to modern, ugly, to tall, to noisy, ruins gates circle, ruins my view, will lower my property values. And one lady brought in a letter from an architect from Rhode Island that she knew. He had never been to Buffalo but some how he was supposed to be an expert on the Olmsted street pattern and wrote a stupid 2 page letter saying how this was a "disaster for Buffalo". I could have punched all those bastards in the head then brought them to an old folkes home.

Sorry but this shit pisses me off to no end.

This city will never look attractive to the majority my generation (20's) until new shit gets build that looks modern and cool and vibrant. I’m sick of hearing 60% of my fellow students at Canisius say they are leaving Buffalo once they graduate because "the city is ugly and dieing". Only people who take the time to find beauty in urbanism and look for things like Elmwood, Allentown, Delaware, Hertel, downtown ect... find beauty like I do. I came to Canisius and Buffalo for that matter knowing next to nothing about the city and listen to me rant now.

Things like the Dulski, BCT, Court House, Statler, this, and the waterfront ALL must be done to spark life back here and get my ass hole friends to believe that this is a great city.

[sullymon54]

I'm sorry to be pessimistic about this one wcp, but using the Elmwood Village Hotel as an example (and I know that there are different deed issues) when they file that lawsuit, and I do mean when not if, this project is as good as dead.

However, if these people who live at the park lane truly have an issue with the Olmsted park design ask how many of them were here or involved in the construction of routes 198 or 33? Lets see what they have to say about the parts that they did or should have played in the true destruction of Olmsted's plan on a grand scale. Then lets see if they don't change their opinion of a modern residential tower in a part of the city that has several of them already that will include generous landscaping to highlight Olmsted's plan.

[westcoastperspective]

Of course there will be a lawsuit, which may result in some minor tweaks to the unveiled plan, but Uniland is a smart developer. I'm confident they can pull this off. The only issue the Gates people have to hang anything on is their building was recently designated a landmark- they'll try to argue that the new construction impacts or desecrates their brick box building.

[jordan]

Buffalo, I went there in the fall, It was cold, not bitterly cold but cold like it would get here in North Tx. about mid to late November. So you can get around. Buffalo"s downtown, is intresting from all areas. And right up the road is Niagra Falls. NY & Niagra Falls Canda. You can actually leave and go to another country. And the U.S. locals go over there like going to the other side of town. A lot of the U.S. gamblers are staying on the U.S. side, now that the casino is on this side.

[westcoastperspective]

Rooftop playground that is planned for the Vincennes Acadamy in the Webb Building:



A top notch day care is a great amenity for downtown workers and downtown-area residents. The owner is also planning a second, close to downtown daycare that would be in a renovation project. Too soon to talk about details- but it would also have a rooftop playground.

There are some prime parking lots around Webb that could use some mid-rise infill.

[westcoastperspective]

This corner building at 496 Main (at Mohawk) is going to be office space and one residence, Kent Keating, a lawyer and founder of Kanoodle is proposing it. More details on BRising.

[BANKofMANHATTAN]

I really hope they do something great with the Millard Filmore site that's compliments the proposed condo tower. I can't help thinking it sure could have filled in some space downtown though! perhaps around Swan st. - or somewhere between the Main Place and HSBC.

Also, The Waterfront Place should look nice when it's finished (the tower, not those funky 1985 row condos that are already present that they're duplicating along with it.)

I'm interested to see the following renders for the Dulski building - I'd really like to see that hideous elevator shaft made less apparent. I really dislike that part of the building. Together w/ New Era, BSC Tower, The Courthouse, and the re-vamped Statler, that area will look great!

I wish Buffalo would emphasize some more of it's architecture w/ dramatic lighting. The Rand Building, Verizon, Rath, 10 Lafayette, the old courthouse, etc. It would really bring out some of the element that are hidden at night. I waste of energy perhaps though. It's be nice if we could actually get some of that power from Niagara Falls and those new Windmills that is being harnessed and shipped away w/ out though of powering the region it comes from!

Also, I think it would be cool to se the HSBC building refinished in a nice blueish glass facade/screens, and dramatic lighting similar to Verizon in NYC. It think it would bring everything together with the new towers and look very sleek. Shell out some dough HSBC!! NOW!

I may do a render of that just for the hell of it.

[Halovet]

Eventually, someone will make a move on the HSBC, hope I live long enough to see it though, and by all means, "do your thing" with that rendering!

[BUFFALOVE!!]

I couldnt agree more about the lighting of buildings downtown. and with the progress of downtown w/ the dulski, BCT, statler, new era, and court house. i wish i had some money i would buy property in that area... shurely values are going to sky rocket in that area soon.

oh and HSBC doesnt own One HSBC center but i would love to see a new facade on it (who wouldnt) but the building has grown on me in recent years tho

[Halovet]

Originally Posted by BUFFALOVE!!

I couldnt agree more about the lighting of buildings downtown. and with the progress of downtown w/ the dulski, BCT, statler, new era, and court house. i wish i had some money i would buy property in that area... shurely values are going to sky rocket in that area soon.

oh and HSBC doesnt own One HSBC center but i would love to see a new facade on it (who wouldnt) but the building has grown on me in recent years tho

I was just getting ready to post the info on HSBC ownership. If it (the tower) keeps changing hands, then renovation will be a long way off.

[Halovet]

Speaking of Renovations, I'm reminded of this oneI peeped during a visit to GR in 1990. For whatever reason, I thought of Marine Midland (now HSBC) and what could be.

I remember when The Plaza Towers in Grand Rapids underwent renovation between 1996 and 97 at a cost of 31 Million.The Kitchens were updated with new cabinets and appliances back in 2003. It was just built in 1991. The HSBC was built in 1970. What gives? I'd say it's well overdue.

Plaza Towers (Grand Rapids) under construction in 1990. The original color was a dark (UPS) brown and IMO, SUCKED!

complete renovation! 1997

[sullymon54]

Hye does anyone know what's going on with the market arcade theater? They just finished removing their sign on main street that displayed what movies are playing in the theater and filled in the wholes in the side walk with concrete.

[BUFFALOVE!!]

You know what would be really cool on the waterfront, downtown or anywhere in the city for that matter... a 300ft Ferris wheel. thats a kind of thing that adds vibrancy to a city. Someone could build it and charge admission, have corporate sponsorship. I mean the one in london costs 15pounds for an adult to go in and draws millions of visitors so i'm shure one in buffalo could cost like $10 and draw a few thousand... shit i'd go and i hate Ferris wheels

[Halovet]

Originally Posted by BUFFALOVE!!

You know what would be really cool on the waterfront, downtown or anywhere in the city for that matter... a 300ft Ferris wheel. thats a kind of thing that adds vibrancy to a city. Someone could build it and charge admission, have corporate sponsorship. I mean the one in london costs 15pounds for an adult to go in and draws millions of visitors so i'm shure one in buffalo could cost like $10 and draw a few thousand... shit i'd go and i hate Ferris wheels

That sounds like
something cities that get little opposition to new development could do. It would be "Revenge of The Nimbys" meets "Preservationist gone Wild", and last but not least, "endless studies" that would conclude it should be built in??? St. Catheran's!

Remember the "Sky Chronometer" proposal of the early 80's? How'd that end up? Talk about lighting downtown? there would have been laser light covering every inch of downtown. Everyone was excited, then came the nimbys. "Those lights will keep us from sleeping". Preservationist: "This does nothing to enhance or protect our history", not entirely true. Finally, they just scraped the whole ideal. Would have worked too. OH WELL!

[westcoastperspective]

Originally Posted by BUFFALOVE!!

You know what would be really cool on the waterfront, downtown or anywhere in the city for that matter... a 300ft Ferris wheel. thats a kind of thing that adds vibrancy to a city. Someone could build it and charge admission, have corporate sponsorship. I mean the one in london costs 15pounds for an adult to go in and draws millions of visitors so i'm shure one in buffalo could cost like $10 and draw a few thousand... shit i'd go and i hate Ferris wheels

Sounds like someone reads the Wall Street Journal? They just had a story on the race to build the world's largest ferris wheel.

[sullymon54]

The ferris wheel is in london because its a world city with a steady stream of tourist I think it would be a giant waste of attention from the public, public officials and media and never get done. This is especially true when one considers the sheer amount of more practical issues that need to be solved. That not withstanding I do believe that part of planning is having your head in the clouds and thinking of fantastic projects, you have to do that to keep yourself sane, so I guess I'm torn on the topic.

[BANKofMANHATTAN]

I dunnow if I'd want to see a huge ferris wheel in/near dowtown, it seems kinda goofy to me.

Perhaps in Niagara Falls, I think the attraction is already there (on either side). Not that the view wouldn't be good in B-Lo, but I think it would be more at home and appropriate in NF. Interesting idea though, no doubt. At least people are still being creative and thinking of new things, which is great in any case.

[sullymon54]

City not sold yet on Pierce-Arrow project
Business First of Buffalo - 11:12 AM EDT Tuesday, July 31, 2007
by James Fink
Business First

Amid concerns about the proposed redevelopment of the former Pierce-Arrow plant, the Buffalo Planning Board will not make a determination for a few more weeks.

The planning board, after hearing more than 80 minutes of comments -- both pro and con -- about the project, agreed to table its decision pending further review including a traffic impact study. At issue is the project's developer, United Development Group of Troy, receiving all the necessary approvals to start its multi-million dollar renovation project this fall.

United Development wants to convert more than 900,000-square-feet of the former Pierce-Arrow plant along Great Arrow Drive into a mixed-use complex with student housing, condominiums, apartments and, possibly a hotel. Student housing -- aimed primarily at the Buffalo State College market -- will encompass the first phase.

United Development is a real estate investment group that purchased the property with the intent of moving ahead with its multi-use concept.

"They are not talking about demolishing buildings, but rather restoring them," said Robert Murray, a Harris Beach partner and United's attorney.

But access concerns from the building's immediate neighbor, O'Connell Machinery, prompted the board to ask for a traffic study. O'Connell uses the property's main driveway and roadway for the delivery of trucks and materials, some of which weigh more than 80,000 pounds. O'Connell has been operating there since the early 1970s. The company repairs and restores heavy machinery commonly used in aerospace and heavy manufacturing fields.

"We want to make sure that things that have worked well in the past, will work well now," said John Pappano, O'Connell's attorney and a partner in Phillips Lytle LLP.

Robert O'Connell, who runs the family business, said he has real concerns about how his delivery trucks will coexist, having to navigate through a residential parking lot.

"Have you ever seen a 70-foot long truck maneuver its way through a parking lot full of cars?" he asked. "We are going to have to ask residents to move their cars every time a truck comes into the lot."

Still, United officials they want to move forward with the project and were attracted to it because of its history and a chance to tackle an urban redevelopment initiative. They found the property after working with brokers Dorothy Stahlnecker and Ed Jankowski from M.J. Peterson Commercial Real Estate Corp.

The sprawling complex has been virtually empty for decades. It was built 100 years ago as a Pierce-Arrow manufacturing plant.

"The attractiveness of this project is that it is a historic building," Murray said. "These buildings will continue to deteriorate unless something is done -- and we want to do it."


Doesn't it appear as though someone could simply build another access road or something to this machine shop. Either way I hope our "planning board" doesn't get bullied again and stop a mega project like this for a business that won't be here in a few years. I know that a lot of people may think that it's cold to talk like that but I have to pull a Jim Collins on this.

[mrussell83]

What the fuck. If this gets nixed for that reason I will have lost all faith in Buffalo, seriously. It's really insane