PHILADELPHIA | East Market | 284 & 248 FT | 24 & 20 FLOORS

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by 1487

It's pretty clear what he meant. And I find it interesting that he brings up Israelites on the megaphone when I have never seen any of them east of Market. I'm down here every weekday- they are nowhere to be found. The fact that he had no issue with the addicts sitting on every corner (often with dogs) let me know what type of people he spefically associates with Market East being worse than he remembers.

Oh please, please don't do this. I was literally speaking about the gambling I saw on the sidewalk of Market East and the Israelites on the megaphones. I don't know what to tell you, besides the fact that they were there Saturday night. This is what I saw, this is what I commented on, it didn't look great. I didn't see many addicts, I don't recall any dogs, but I literally went from the train station over 12th and headed south.

Not gonna comment anymore on the direction you guys want to bring this in, because, well...it's really quite personally insulting. I shouldn't have brought it up...Market East is wonderful and I love it. Back to buildings!!!!!

[1487]

Originally Posted by Parkway

The methadone clinic on that block is the single biggest obstacle to improvement. My observation is that the influx of junkies is the single biggest QOL issue in Philadelphia period, not just on that block of Market. It's problem that affects everyone that lives within 10 minutes of the EL.

I don't know its the biggest issue, but it's a big one, especially east of broad. Somehow it doesn't seem to get mentioned all that much for whatever reason. Not nearly as much as charter school teens, "wig shops", cash for gold stores or "white hate" groups which I rarely see anymore.....

[1487]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

Oh please, please don't do this. I was literally speaking about the gambling I saw on the sidewalk of Market East and the Israelites on the megaphones. I don't know what to tell you, besides the fact that they were there Saturday night. This is what I saw, this is what I commented on, it didn't look great. I didn't see many addicts, I don't recall any dogs, but I literally went from the train station over 12th and headed south.

Not gonna comment anymore on the direction you guys want to bring this in, because, well...it's really quite personally insulting. I shouldn't have brought it up...Market East is wonderful and I love it. Back to buildings!!!!!

since you aren't down here much I will tell you, the biggest issues are underutilized buildings by semi slum lords holding out for a payday and the heroin fueled homeless epidemic. These are issues DAILY. When tourists stream out from the convention center or RTM this is what they are seeing, not riff raff types throwing dice in plain sight on Market Street. They are seeing homeless with signs and needle marks on their arms on virtually every corner or people passed out or sleeping in doorways.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by 1487

since you aren't down here much I will tell you, the biggest issues are underutilized buildings by semi slum lords holding out for a payday and the heroin fueled homeless epidemic. These are issues DAILY. When tourists stream out from the convention center or RTM this is what they are seeing, not riff raff types throwing dice in plain sight on Market Street. They are seeing homeless with signs and needle marks on their arms on virtually every corner or people passed out or sleeping in doorways.

That makes sense, the heroin issue has become out of control since I lived down there. I will also agree that the slumlord property owners in the area are despicable. I will admit that this is the first time that I've seen open gambling and the Israelites down on Market East, but again...I'm not down there that often so I didn't know if this was the new norm.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Frontst17

Never seen anyone gambling on the sidewalk around there. The occasional heroine junkie who mind their own business yes and the unfortunate homeless veterans I'm seeing more and more of. But being a hub of public transit you're going to see all walks of life which I enjoy seeing. Market East is getting the much needed face lift it deserves but the people will stay the same.

They will not stay the same if there is significant residential and commercial gentrification the length of the block. Methadone clinic will relocate too. I say this without making a normative judgment or taking a position. It's just how it works. Homeless may remain. There are and always will be homeless people if every part of the city. Also, change will, to some degree, be mitigated by the transit hub. I agree with that. But the people still will not generally stay the same.

[reparcsyks]

LA & SF have an insane homeless/heroin junkie population, far greater than any I've ever seen in Philly. Barcelona's homeless/heroin junkie problem was eye-opening, to say the least. This isn't a Philly problem. The only people stunned/offended by homeless people are insulated suburbanites in town for a convention. To put it in perspective, my friend from SF was shocked to see so little homeless people in Philly.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

That makes sense, the heroin issue has become out of control since I lived down there. I will also agree that the slumlord property owners in the area are despicable. I will admit that this is the first time that I've seen open gambling and the Israelites down on Market East, but again...I'm not down there that often so I didn't know if this was the new norm.

It's bad and I partially blame the CCD who has shifted into an economic policy think tank and slacked on it's real mission. Not only has the homeless population exploded (I do recognize Philly needs state and federal help here) but I encounter human waste, urine smells and dumpster water smells constantly. Where is the CCD on all of this? CC property owners are charged extra to deal with this stuff. I hope the owners of East Market demand better services from CCD.

[1487]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

They will not stay the same if there is significant residential and commercial gentrification the length of the block. Methadone clinic will relocate too. I say this without making a normative judgment or taking a position. It's just how it works. Homeless may remain. There are and always will be homeless people if every part of the city. Also, change will, to some degree, be mitigated by the transit hub. I agree with that. But the people still will not generally stay the same.

while I heard about this clinic I don't think that's the only reason so many addicts are east of broad. Based on the inquirer article published a few months ago many are down there to collect enough money to get on the EL to go back and get another hit from Kensington. I think it's naive to think this is going to change in the near future without a major change in resources and strategy.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by 1487

while I heard about this clinic I don't think that's the only reason so many addicts are east of broad. Based on the inquirer article published a few months ago many are down there to collect enough money to get on the EL to go back and get another hit from Kensington. I think it's naive to think this is going to change in the near future without a major change in resources and strategy.

I started working in CC west of Broad 6-7 years, and there were a lot more homeless/addicts around Dilworth and Love Park the first few years. But with the Dilworth renovations and now Love Park completely shutoff -- I think there's been a migration east. I had noticed a lot more homeless over near the Free Library and old Family Court about a year ago -- but now with the partial capping going on there, another place for homeless/addicts to hang out was eliminated (at least temporarily). So I think these are logical explanations for the migration east of Broad - along with the methadone clinic and EL.

[1487]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

I started working in CC west of Broad 6-7 years, and there were a lot more homeless/addicts around Dilworth and Love Park the first few years. But with the Dilworth renovations and now Love Park completely shutoff -- I think there's been a migration east. I had noticed a lot more homeless over near the Free Library and old Family Court about a year ago -- but now with the partial capping going on there, another place for homeless/addicts to hang out was eliminated (at least temporarily). So I think these are logical explanations for the migration east of Broad - along with the methadone clinic and EL.

Thats all true, but the number of homeless and the demographics have changed big time. BEfore a substantial number had obvious mental illness. What you see now is a huge proportion are young suburbanites that are not mentally ill but obviously addicted. I don't think the existing resources are able to cope with the influx of addicts to CC streets. CCD is too focused on lowering taxes do come up with a plan for this apparently. Not sure how Levy and Co don't notice this when they are walking the streets. It's also great that they provide tons of security at Dilworth to keep the homeless out which only pushes them to benches and corners nearby. Great progress there.....

[PHL10]

This morning:

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by 1487

It's bad and I partially blame the CCD who has shifted into an economic policy think tank and slacked on it's real mission. Not only has the homeless population exploded (I do recognize Philly needs state and federal help here) but I encounter human waste, urine smells and dumpster water smells constantly. Where is the CCD on all of this? CC property owners are charged extra to deal with this stuff. I hope the owners of East Market demand better services from CCD.

Market East should probably create its own improvement district separate from the CCD's purview, funded by the landlords/building owners along the stretch that can pay for services specific to the needs of that stretch. This could be street cleaners etc. that supplement or add to the services already provided by the CCD? It could be added security or guards to move the homeless along or clean up after some of the unusual messes.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Market East should probably create its own improvement district separate from the CCD's purview, funded by the landlords/building owners along the stretch that can pay for services specific to the needs of that stretch. This could be street cleaners etc. that supplement or add to the services already provided by the CCD? It could be added security or guards to move the homeless along or clean up after some of the unusual messes.

Such a thing actually pre-existed the CCD. It was folded in at some point.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Such a thing actually pre-existed the CCD. It was folded in at some point.

I'm assuming OCD, SSHD, and Rittenhouse Row operate in this capacity - kind of in conjunction with the CCD - but adding supplementary benefits to its members. IIRC that was one of the "perks" that Goldenberg was throwing in with the Market8 casino application - they would fund an improvement district for Market East. With a billion dollars of construction projects supposedly moving forward, this type of entity seems like a no-brainer to protect these sizeable interests/investments.

[Larry King]

I'd say the big problem on market east is all of PREIT's holdings sitting totally empty for the foreseeable future. Wish they found a way to renovate while keeping the gallery open

[1487]

Originally Posted by Larry King

I'd say the big problem on market east is all of PREIT's holdings sitting totally empty for the foreseeable future. Wish they found a way to renovate while keeping the gallery open

yeah Im concerned that there has been so little disclosure about what the final product will look like or when we can expect to see exterior changes. Demo is ongoing, that I can tell you.

[Parkway]

It's also worth noting the PREIT bought several buildings on the south side of Market Street which I believe are now also vacant.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Maybe we can hope that a more capable entity will buy these "unencumbered" properties from PREIT.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Parkway

It's also worth noting the PREIT bought several buildings on the south side of Market Street which I believe are now also vacant.

Well, that is not surprising. It takes a little time to find the first round of tenants willing to pay higher rights on an untested area where improvements are being made. PREIT is not just going to rent to the same class of stores that vacated. And it shouldn't. Maybe we won't see much in changes in vacancy until at least Moms and the other stores in that building are in as well as the building across from the tower being built that will house. Maybe not even till the Towers are built and start to fill with some residents.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

Maybe we can hope that a more capable entity will buy these "unencumbered" properties from PREIT.

I don't see why that would necessarily matter. It's just going to take a little time for some decent tenants to pull the trigger on these properties. And maybe some completion and occupancy of the larger projects in the works by NREA and Brickstone first too.