How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City?

[the urban politician]

^ Because of people like Nite, where the only metric in life that matters is Covid cases, and nothing else warrants consideration

Anyhow, would you even want to go to Canada now? It’s boring enough without a pandemic, now imagine going there with all of their perpetual lockdown insanity.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Because of people like Nite, where the only metric in life that matters is Covid cases, and nothing else warrants consideration

Anyhow, would you even want to go to Canada now? It’s boring enough without a pandemic, now imagine going there with all of their perpetual lockdown insanity.

Banff is pretty nice though. BC too when its not 120F. Amazing scenery.

[suburbanite]

I dont know what I would do in my boring backwater of a city if lockdown ended. I should probably just move to free and innovative Alabama.

[suburbanite]

Arguing about what some universal best approach to Covid is has always been pointless given the cultural differences between all the countries/states/cities we live in. If you want to eradicate the disease in the quickest and most ruthless manner possible, and you have the political authority to do so, it's hard to argue with China's approach. If you're in a country like the U.S. where personal liberties have always been at the forefront of the discussion, the best bet was probably to mitigate damage while rushing a vaccine.

As much as we like to bicker about our "longest lockdown in the world" status in Canada, I question whether people truly would've been able to stomach the type of numbers we saw in more laissez-faire jurisdictions. I think the Ontario government would have been equally crucified if we had gotten to the point of people dying in the hallways of overflowing hospitals, which his where we were inevitably headed given limited ICU capacity.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Arguing about what some universal best approach to Covid is has always been pointless given the cultural differences between all the countries/states/cities we live in. If you want to eradicate the disease in the quickest and most ruthless manner possible, and you have the political authority to do so, it's hard to argue with China's approach. If you're in a country like the U.S. where personal liberties have always been at the forefront of the discussion, the best bet was probably to mitigate damage while rushing a vaccine.

As much as we like to bicker about our "longest lockdown in the world" status in Canada, I question whether people truly would've been able to stomach the type of numbers we saw in more laissez-faire jurisdictions. I think the Ontario government would have been equally crucified if we had gotten to the point of people dying in the hallways of overflowing hospitals, which his where we were inevitably headed given limited ICU capacity.

Correct, no government in Canada, Federal, Provincial or Territorial would be tolerated if it didn't do all that it could to stop the health system from collapsing under the weight or a huge covid outbreak regardless of which political party they belong to. The premier of Ontario came the closest but even he could not withstand the public pressure to drop the hammer down.

Canadian will not tolerate the disregarding of human lives, the economy will always come back anyway unlike a human life.

[Crawford]

Right, but again, if Canadian border restrictions are based on public health, and if there's a consensus that fully vaccinated foreigners are no threat to public health, why the restriction? What's the underlying reasoning?

Canada obviously has the right to maintain border restrictions indefinitely; I just don't understand the current thinking.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

As much as we like to bicker about our "longest lockdown in the world" status in Canada, I question whether people truly would've been able to stomach the type of numbers we saw in more laissez-faire jurisdictions. I think the Ontario government would have been equally crucified if we had gotten to the point of people dying in the hallways of overflowing hospitals, which his where we were inevitably headed given limited ICU capacity.

Yes but how does that justify what Canada/ Ontario are still doing at this point? New cases and fatalities have fallen considerably and Canada is on track to outpace the US in vaccinations.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Right, but again, if Canadian border restrictions are based on public health, and if there's a consensus that fully vaccinated foreigners are no threat to public health, why the restriction? What's the underlying reasoning?

Canada obviously has the right to maintain border restrictions indefinitely; I just don't understand the current thinking.

At this point know one really knows what the threshold is for opening the border. Public health officials are really dying on the hill of fully vaccinated vs. partially vaccinated, and Canada has obviously been lagging on the fully vaccinated front even as first doses hit record numbers. I think it's a convenient line in the sand for them to draw since it buys them an extra month or two to let case numbers and hospitalizations dwindle down. Opening the border, even to fully vaccinated travelers, while overall case and ICU numbers were at record highs would've probably garnered some negative attention.

The reality is the border closure is more inconvenient than anything. I just had a friend come back from Miami after living there fully vaccinated for two months. He took an Uber from Buffalo airport to the Peace Bridge (or maybe Rainbow Bridge in Niagara?), walked across the border with his luggage, and got another Uber to Toronto.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by JManc

Yes but how does that justify what Canada/ Ontario are still doing at this point? New cases and fatalities have fallen considerably and Canada is on track to outpace the US in vaccinations.

Hospitalizations and ICU numbers have been very high in Ontario until very recently (like 2-3 weeks), because even as we're quickly approaching most vaccinated country in the world status (with Pfizer/Moderna I should specify), we were a solid 2-3 months behind the US and UK.

Ontario hit its peak Covid numbers around April 18, as you guys were probably already close to 50% fully vaccinated.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Hospitalizations and ICU numbers have been very high in Ontario until very recently (like 2-3 weeks), because even as we're quickly approaching most vaccinated country in the world status (with Pfizer/Moderna I should specify), we were a solid 2-3 months behind the US and UK.

Ontario hit its peak Covid numbers around April 18, as you guys were probably already close to 50% fully vaccinated.

The US is still not at 50% fully vaccinated, much less in April

[twister244]

Another big tech company walking back forcing people back into the office....

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/29/tech/...nge/index.html

The tug of war continues!

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Nite

Too bad those 600,000 dead Americans couldn't per take in all the fun now. 400,000 of which would have been alive now if the US matched Canada covid response btw.
I guess places like Wyoming, Arkansas and Missouri are in the forefront of international movement since they have much more daily covid cases and death right now than Canada.

And Canada has many more than Australia, another little global backwater.

The vaccine right now is available to every American who wants it. That's what matters and I'm not at all sure it's true in Canada. Those who don't want it can go without and take their chances. It's the spirit of a country that won its freedom and conquered a frontier on its own.

By the way, when are you guys going to let my Canadian neighbors loose to come back to their homes in Arizona and enjoy real freedom?

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

The vaccine right now is available to every American who wants it. That's what matters and I'm not at all sure it's true in Canada. Those who don't want it can go without and take their chances. It's the spirit of a country that won its freedom and conquered a frontier on its own.

By the way, when are you guys going to let my Canadian neighbors loose to come back to their homes in Arizona and enjoy real freedom?

First dose vaccine rates are almost 70% of the total population, higher than that for the eligible 12+ population. If you haven't gotten a second dose yet it's because it hasn't been long enough since your first shot. The vast majority of those first doses were jabbed in May.

Canadians who aren't traveling to the U.S. are probably more concerned about being the subject of their neighbours gossip than they are about the efficacy of any travel restrictions. Coincidentally, one of the only 2 people I personally know who died of Covid was a guy near my parents cottage who refused to give up his annual winter trip to Florida. His wife said he was reasonably cautious for the first two months, but eventually gave in and went into the clubhouse for a drink with his golf buddies after a round. They all caught Covid, and the two oldest sadly passed away. Knowing the guy though, I think he still would've preferred not having anyone tell him what to do even if he knew what was coming.

[edale]

Why has this thread gotten so nasty between the Canadians and Americans? I think Canada, and certainly Australia, are being quite ridiculous in their approach to the virus at this point. We have a vaccine now-- get the most vulnerable people vaccinated and the death rate of COVID plunges. With the vaccine available to basically anyone who wants it, it's absurd to continue lockdowns and severe restrictions. I don't really understand the tolerance Canadians have shown toward these draconian measures. But I don't think calling them a global backwater is at all acceptable. I also don't have much tolerance for the smug 'Canadians prospered while Americans became broke and died' take. Both are gross oversimplifications intended to hurt the other. Grow up.

[dubu]

in my city we dont have to wear masks anymore. but is so hot right now you would probably die if you had on one, so its def a good thing.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by edale

Why has this thread gotten so nasty between the Canadians and Americans? I think Canada, and certainly Australia, are being quite ridiculous in their approach to the virus at this point. We have a vaccine now-- get the most vulnerable people vaccinated and the death rate of COVID plunges. With the vaccine available to basically anyone who wants it, it's absurd to continue lockdowns and severe restrictions. I don't really understand the tolerance Canadians have shown toward these draconian measures. But I don't think calling them a global backwater is at all acceptable. I also don't have much tolerance for the smug 'Canadians prospered while Americans became broke and died' take. Both are gross oversimplifications intended to hurt the other. Grow up.

Not to mention Canada has now exceeded the US in vaccination rates, which has hit a wall, despite the US being the main researcher, developer, manufacturer, and distributor of the vaccines, and thus having a massive head start in vaccination efforts. Coupled with Canada having a third of the death rate of the US, I'm not sure there's really that much for the US boosters to be so smug about.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by edale

Why has this thread gotten so nasty between the Canadians and Americans?

It's been brewing....

[homebucket]

Does Canada have much of large anti-vax community as well? One of our mass vax sites, Dodger Stadium had to shut down one day because a horde of anti-vaxxers blocked the entrance. Yay! Real freedom!

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Not to mention Canada has now exceeded the US in vaccination rates, which has hit a wall, despite the US being the main researcher, developer, manufacturer, and distributor of the vaccines, and thus having a massive head start in vaccination efforts. Coupled with Canada having a third of the death rate of the US, I'm not sure there's really that much for the US boosters to be so smug about.

What matters as far as governmental competence is whether there is any bar to anyone who wants a vaccine getting it. In the US there isn't.

Actually, places like the Bay Area (and Northeast) where political and educational attitudes are less of a bar to getting the vaccine, current rates of coverage exceed Canada's (in terms both of one dose and being fully vaccinated). It's quite clear the ignorance and politics in the south and parts of the mountain west are pulling down the national numbers.

But if those people don't want the vaccine, freedom means they shouldn't get it. And if they get covid, they have no one to blame but themselves.

I'm disappointed in my fellow citizens for their attitude about this but not in my government under either administration. The national and state governments have made it possible for anyone to get a vaccine (and they did that when Canada was still struggling to get any vaccine). That's all they can or should do.

[suburbanite]

People have been locked away, subjected to non-stop media coverage, lost employment or potentially even family members over the last year. It's human nature to try and justify that kind of sacrifice. If you're one of the people who's been subject to record lockdowns, it's a tough pill to swallow that your months of quarantining in an apartment wasn't the right approach or was never worth it. If you lean towards the "Covid isn't a big deal" side than you need to validate higher death rates with increased freedoms and economic prosperity.