CHICAGO | Highrise Projects & Construction, v7

[dewbs]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

^ In spite of all the vacant office space, weekday foot traffic is at 91% of pre-pandemic levels, with weekends at 107%! So the "downtown is dead" myth is pretty much debunked at this point. This then means any office-to-residential conversion will further push us past 2019 levels

Q1 Foot traffic report: https://loopchicago.com/in-the-loop/...bustling-loop/

How much of this is just because q1 weather was really good this year?

It's been four years at this point, so no doubt my memory could be off, but the loop really does feel a good deal quieter to me than I remember it pre-covid.

Another possibility is that people are still on State St. (which is what that data references), but the rest of the loop is cleared out due to offices being half empty.

What this data says is, at best, State St. isn't dead. But the whole rest of the loop could still be, unfortunately.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by dewbs

How much of this is just because q1 weather was really good this year?

It's been four years at this point, so no doubt my memory could be off, but the loop really does feel a good deal quieter to me than I remember it pre-covid.

Another possibility is that people are still on State St. (which is what that data references), but the rest of the loop is cleared out due to offices being half empty.

What this data says is, at best, State St. isn't dead. But the whole rest of the loop could still be, unfortunately.

Good weather or not, if foot traffic numbers look this good with office vacancy rates where they are at, I think it might be safe to say non-work foot traffic might actually be above 2019 levels.

And that's a very very good thing because it means Chicago will continue to thrive in lieu of office workers coming into the office 3+ days a week. I think you will still see a gradual trend of some people coming back "into the office", but it's probably going to look a lot different moving forward. Co-working spaces, office templates being re-imagined for the remote/hybrid workers, etc. Office tenants are going to have to get creative to lure people in.

I think one of the reasons you probably see West Loop numbers looking so much better is because there's an incentive to go into work down there. I purposely go to the WeWork on Green Street because there's so many fun places to go to after work with friends, etc. Ultimately, this is what's going to lure people into downtown for work......

[gandalf612]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Where's the transit ridership? Traffic sucks more than ever, but if foot traffic is 91% of what it was, I'd expect to see surging ridership.

Ridership recovery is severely constrained by the fact that CTA has reduced service by 22% compared to 2019.

Bus ridership is up 89% YTD vs. 2021, but at 75% of 2019 levels
Rail ridership is up 137% YTD vs. 2021, but at 54% of 2019 levels

Ridership recovery is also noticeably stronger on weekends vs weekdays,
Saturday: bus ridership is at 84% of 2019 levels, rail is at 66% of 2019
Sunday: bus ridership is at 92% of 2019 levels, rail is at 70% of 2019

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by twister244

Yikes.... I would have assumed things would have at least bottomed out, but it appears that might not be the case.

It's odd because when going downtown, feels as vibrant as ever. People love being in the city, they just don't like being tied to a traditional office space.

in the loop the streets are crowded, and offices are empty

its a very weird situation... feels kind of like going into work on the weekends

[Klippenstein]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

^ If - and this is a big IF - they have secured financing for 1105 W Carroll, I'm fascinated to know any details. Particularly assuming they have no tenants lined up yet, as there have been no announcements. There is very little demand at the moment for anything like this. However, this would be a bet on demand in 2 years of course, which admittedly could look different. But this would be extraordinarily difficult to pull off in terms of financing at the moment with no significant pre-leasing, and merely quite challenging still to pull off with a major pre-lease.

Somebody mentioned this was being developed by Harlan Crow's son so it might not be constrained by normal "laws" of economics like many other developments.

[BVictor1]

Shopping Center Remake on Chicago’s North Side Could Include 500-Unit Apartment Tower



https://www.costar.com/article/99079...partment-tower

[Randomguy34]

If the proposal stays close to 520 feet, we should make a separate thread for the project

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by twister244

I think one of the reasons you probably see West Loop numbers looking so much better is because there's an incentive to go into work down there. I purposely go to the WeWork on Green Street because there's so many fun places to go to after work with friends, etc. Ultimately, this is what's going to lure people into downtown for work......

I think we are seeing the first stages of a new phenomenon where the traditional Loop becomes a historic district mostly for tourists and residents. This would be boosted by UNESCO heritage classification. Meanwhile, the West Loop becomes more of the center of office and business activity.

I compare it a little to the Sultanahmet area of Istanbul that has the Hagia Sophia, Blue Mosque, and other cultural attractions. While the office district is in another area.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by moorhosj1

I think we are seeing the first stages of a new phenomenon where the traditional Loop becomes a historic district mostly for tourists and residents. This would be boosted by UNESCO heritage classification. Meanwhile, the West Loop becomes more of the center of office and business activity.

I compare it a little to the Sultanahmet area of Istanbul that has the Hagia Sophia, Blue Mosque, and other cultural attractions. While the office district is in another area.

Haha, not sure I would go that far..... I don't quite view the oldest buildings in the Loop the same was I look at Blue Mosque.

But.... I do agree with you. I think the Loop has the potential to be something unique if the city can foster it. So far, they are making the right moves with LaSalle, Google, and Chase. Some big dogs keeping their trophies while the rest of the loop transforms into a historic residential/mixed-use district.

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by moorhosj1

Meanwhile, the West Loop becomes more of the center of office and business activity.

west loop is heavily residential, which I think points to the future of the loop proper... with a mix of residential, office, hotel a city center can be thriving post-WFH.

[Jstange059]

Questions during Q&A were stuff like moving parking underground, converting parking to other uses in the future, making the building out of mass timber, and adding bollards around intersections. They shut down the ideas regarding the parking and mass timber, but seemed interested in the bollard idea. Definitely a nice change of pace from the fern hill old town public meetings

[Randomguy34]

I'm glad this isn't a serious proposal, cause this project looks like River North 2.0

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

I'm glad this isn't a serious proposal, cause this project looks like River North 2.0

In my comments at the meeting i wrote that it was a glassy version of One Superior Place. Not impressed AT ALL...

[Jstange059]

It is very much just “a tower”. I will always happily accept a new Fulton Market tower, but the design of this one is entirely unremarkable and forgettable. Would love to see something more like 1114 W Carroll just across the street that has a whole lot more character

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by BVictor1

In my comments at the meeting i wrote that it was a glassy version of One Superior Place.

Oof. Nailed it.

[Randomguy34]

What upsets me the most about the podium is that it's across the street from the planned park & plaza space at 1112 W Carroll & 315 N May. If this proposal also included a sizeable plaza, this intersection could be one of that best public spaces in the city!

Originally Posted by Jstange059

[r18tdi]

Also, doesn't the West Loop Design Guidelines encourage east-west tower orientation? This thing is a fugly north-south block-wide slab blocking light and air to other buildings and the aforementioned Fulton Park. Not a fan.

[SamInTheLoop]

^ I for one despise any enforcement of towers being oriented in the same direction. Seriously visually irritating. Much prefer a seemingly random mix of orientations. The sun is overrated. It's like not even in my top 10 favorite stars.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

I'm glad this isn't a serious proposal, cause this project looks like River North 2.0

Is this the one they are getting entitled to sell?


It's actually mainly the podium that bothers me about this placeholder(?). I think other than that it's just that the facade could use some more proper articulation. Generally much prefer simple and cohesive, elegant, proportional to something within intentional 'flair'. Just needs some refinement in the details. But, that base...

[rgarri4]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

I'm glad this isn't a serious proposal, cause this project looks like River North 2.0

This isn't a serious proposal?