PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread - Page 1036

Gatorade_Jim · #**20701** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 12:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Duderino

https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phil...nother-thought

thoughts? could be pretty interesting

I don’t know. Adding an influx of 20k+ people several days a week plus tons of people on other nights for concerts and the like to Market East will undoubtedly spur more development in the area and help revive that area. I have to imagine at least some of the displaced FD stores will move into street facing retail spots on Walnut/Chestnut. This kind of development all but guarantees that the other side of the street from Marshall’s down to 8th street, where to be honest it’s pretty dingy at the moment, will see development. Plus it seems like the FD owners aren’t too confident on the development long term, so fixing this debacle once and for all before it devolves into another Gallery is a HUGE win.

skyhigh07 · #**20702** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 12:37 AM**

Thoughts on La Resistance?
https://www.inquirer.com/politics/ph...-20220721.html

steve_phl · #**20703** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 12:43 AM**

Saw this quoted in a Philadelphia Business Journal article:

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/laura...er_desktop_web

Quote:

Don't always believe what you read. I talked to several Philly developers who think the 76ers plan to build a stadium at the Gallery, 10th & Market St, is a fugazy. They argue there's not enough space to build a stadium there especially in comparison to the recently built Barclay Center in Brooklyn. Most suspect Harris is bluffing Comcast with the plan to build a new stadium to secure a favorable lease renewal at the Wells Fargo Center in 2031.
No land for the stadium has been purchased yet. Typically, a transaction like this starts with Harris buying an option for the land.

Certainly a possibility.

skyhigh07 · #**20704** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 12:49 AM**

^^^Possibly. Not sure of the square footages but the site seem comparable to Barclay’s. Barclay’s also takes up about a block. It also has a few towers wedged within it.

If it really is a bluff then it sounds like it failed pretty quickly. Wells Fargo released a statement that pretty much said “sayonara!” Also, the 76ers have been shopping around for years and have made several other bids to relocate elsewhere.

I suppose it’s understandable that nothing is concrete yet. This is merely just an announcement for a plan that’s still ten years away.

allovertown · #**20705** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 1:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_phl

Saw this quoted in a Philadelphia Business Journal article:

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/laura...er_desktop_web

Certainly a possibility.

This is nonsense. Why would they go to these lengths to negotiate to stay in an arena they don't want to be in?

Who knows what comes of this proposal and I certainly wouldn't wave away the possibility of an ulterior motive, but it's definitely not being done with the goal of staying in the well Fargo center.

Also I don't know what they're talking about in terms of the barclays footprint. The barclays center has a very large architectural outcropping and is ringed by apartment buildings. If you ignore all that and focus on where the actual arena is situated, it's roughly the size of this block. And some have said this plan closes Filbert and also uses the land where the bus terminal is currently located. In that scenario, those two blocks combined could easily fit the arena part of the barclays with room to spare.

thoughtcriminal · #**20706** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 1:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_phl

Saw this quoted in a Philadelphia Business Journal article:

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/laura...er_desktop_web

Certainly a possibility.

I have to agree that this whole thing is likely a rouse. If they were so confident they were going to spend over a billion dollars on an arena, they would have put together a real rendering, not that skimpy sketchy thing. even if the design changed radically by the time the thing was built, the initial rendering would have been something you could understand a real design from. not so with this thing.

TonyTone · #**20707** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 1:18 AM**

Hahaha As they say

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The Facebook group and all news channel comments are going crazy right now, I see more likes that opposition however the main comments are bringing up three things, Traffic, Parking and People.

I wonder if the parking can be mitigated with multiple floors of parking under the Greenhouse station? wherever it cannot obstruct with the trains.

Also as far as people go it will boost the surrounding areas with more foot traffic allowing restaurants, businesses, and after hour spots to flourish given that the right type of spots open in the area and whatever happens across the street regarding development.

The other thing is Market St is dead after 8-9 everyday except for two days, so im confused on how anyone who's out driving will have an issue since they aren't in that area anyway?

Anyway it's a good plan this or the riverfront area are the best two spots, Its Market St our Entertainment commercial "Times Square" why wouldn't we push for entertainment and a popping district.

skyhigh07 · #**20708** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 1:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Its Market St our Entertainment commercial "Times Square" why wouldn't we push for entertainment and a popping district.

Exactly. It’s weird how people are thrown off by it. It’s been branded as an entertainment district and it’s a main artery for Center City. I guess they’d prefer no more development for Market East? It’s fine as it is? Lol.

skyhigh07 · #**20709** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 1:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

I have to agree that this whole thing is likely a rouse. If they were so confident they were going to spend over a billion dollars on an arena, they would have put together a real rendering, not that skimpy sketchy thing. even if the design changed radically by the time the thing was built, the initial rendering would have been something you could understand a real design from. not so with this thing.

Well when you’re ten years away from a possible completion date, I don’t think you particularly need a shovel ready plan right now. They still have to go through quite a few hurdles (approvals, public input/involvement) before getting to the design phase.

Londonee · #**20710** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 2:05 AM**

I’m actually a bit confused on the “what about parking!?!?” complaint. There are so many multi-story, multi-block parking garages in this area that it’s almost comical. We’re talking blocks and blocks of multi-story parking garages within a few blocks of the proposal?

And public transit aside, you have to factor in how many pedestrians will attend games. Right now, the number of pedestrians going to WF is almost zero. But with this location? A huge swath of Center City residents, office workers, and tourists are simply going to walk to the game.

Urbanthusiat · #**20711** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 2:10 AM**

“Starts with a purchase option of the land”

Lol there is literally no way for us to know that they haven’t already done so. Why would they publicize their deal terms? Macerich is clearly supporting the bid so it seems likely they’ve already negotiated an agreement. I would think these “developers” would know ho transactions work… idk about you but do you guys publicize your LOIs??? I know I don’t…

skyhigh07 · #**20712** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 2:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

“Starts with a purchase option of the land”

Lol there is literally no way for us to know that they haven’t already done so. Why would they publicize their deal terms? Macerich is clearly supporting the bid so it seems likely they’ve already negotiated an agreement. I would think these “developers” would know ho transactions work… idk about you but do you guys publicize your LOIs??? I know I don’t…

Exactly. The Negadelphians love to come out of the woodwork when any positive or exciting change happens…

“The plan at this point would involve the Sixers buying a block-sized portion of the Fashion District, which amounts to a third of the retail center, that runs from 10th to 11th streets from Macerich. Terms and timing of that transaction aren’t being disclosed at this time.“

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...ladelphia.html

hammersklavier · #**20713** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 2:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Duderino

https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phil...nother-thought

thoughts? could be pretty interesting

The Sixers being on Market East would be nice

But this seems like a sketchy plan put together by an ownership that's kind of checked out. Remember that the Sixers put together a similarly dumb plan, airmailed it into the Waterfront process, and got their asses handed to them just three years ago! It feels like this is an ownership who either needs a suitably corrupt city government to do something or needs to learn some serious lessons before they do much of anything.

To put it simply, I do not trust anything the Sixers say about arenas at this point.

skyhigh07 · #**20714** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 2:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

The Sixers being on Market East would be nice

But this seems like a sketchy plan put together by an ownership that's kind of checked out. Remember that the Sixers put together a similarly dumb plan, airmailed it into the Waterfront process, and got their asses handed to them just three years ago! It feels like this is an ownership who either needs a suitably corrupt city government to do something or needs to learn some serious lessons before they do much of anything.

To put it simply, I do not trust anything the Sixers say about arenas at this point.

They didn’t get beaten out by Joe Schmoe developer for the waterfront proposal. It’s Durst for God’s sake! They built One World Trade Center!

hammersklavier · #**20715** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 2:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

They didn’t get beaten out by Joe Schmoe developer for the waterfront proposal. It’s Durst for God’s sake! They built One World Trade Center!

Way to completely miss the point. Durst has fuck all to do with my point.

My point is that Sixers ownership thought they could just steamroll a half-baked arena proposal through a late-stage design process with no repercussions whatsoever. Whoever called those shots is fundamentally unserious about their stated aims. Nobody can trust those yahoos. Not me for one.

skyhigh07 · #**20716** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 3:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Way to completely miss the point. Durst has fuck all to do with my point.

My point is that Sixers ownership thought they could just steamroll a half-baked arena proposal through a late-stage design process with no repercussions whatsoever. Whoever called those shots is fundamentally unserious about their stated aims. Nobody can trust those yahoos. Not me for one.

And that’s my point. Did you review and attend their entire presentation? How do you even know it was half baked? Just because they missed round one doesn’t mean you throw in the towel. That’s just business.

Ugh, the Philly pessimist curmudgeonism never dies..

hammersklavier · #**20717** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 3:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

And that’s my point. Did you review and attend their entire presentation? How do you even know it was half baked? Just because they missed round one doesn’t mean you throw in the towel. That’s just business.

Ugh, the Philly pessimist curmudgeonism never dies..

They didn't just miss round one, they literally showed up a week before the final judging with a proposal that literally ignored every bit of guidance DRWC had been giving for the five years previous to that point. Like it's all archived on this forum, for God's sakes. There has been nothing remotely serious about any Sixers proposal up to this point and we're right to laugh them off.

And no, I'm not pessimistic about Philly, I'm pessimistic that the Sixers ownership is presenting something that isn't just smoke and mirrors. That's what I'm pessimistic about.

skyhigh07 · #**20718** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 3:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

They didn't just miss round one, they literally showed up a week before the final judging with a proposal that literally ignored every bit of guidance DRWC had been giving for the five years previous to that point. Like it's all archived on this forum, for God's sakes. There has been nothing remotely serious about any Sixers proposal up to this point and we're right to laugh them off.

And no, I'm not pessimistic about Philly, I'm pessimistic that the Sixers ownership is presenting something that isn't just smoke and mirrors. That's what I'm pessimistic about.

Well, I doubt no one is going to go back a few hundred pages to find your reference but I did find this from two years ago…

“Rather than pack Penn’s Landing with entertainment boxes, the franchise’s wealthy owners Josh Harris and David Blitzer are focused on creating a mixed-use neighborhood that is largely attuned to the spirit of the 2010 master plan. The proposal was even prepared by the planning consultant that cowrote the waterfront master plan, Cooper Robertson.”

I don’t see how exactly how or why their design consultant would ignore his own original guidance within the DRWC master plan but who knows I guess lol…

https://www.inquirer.com/columnists/...outputType=amp

As others have pointed out, they just issued the announcement today and from what it sounds like there will be other reputable developers involved like Macerich. This isn’t some pie in the sky idea. Sports teams change venues! Shocker!

Londonee · #**20719** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 4:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

They didn't just miss round one, they literally showed up a week before the final judging with a proposal that literally ignored every bit of guidance DRWC had been giving for the five years previous to that point. Like it's all archived on this forum, for God's sakes. There has been nothing remotely serious about any Sixers proposal up to this point and we're right to laugh them off.

And no, I'm not pessimistic about Philly, I'm pessimistic that the Sixers ownership is presenting something that isn't just smoke and mirrors. That's what I'm pessimistic about.

Adelman talks about this in multiple interviews… there’s a reason they brought in a major Philadelphia developer for this latest proposal.

Anyways, if you’re in certain circles this has been the worst kept secret for a few years now…regardless what you may think of this location/proposal, these guys want a Center City arena, badly.

allovertown · #**20720** Posted **Jul 22, 2022, 5:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

They didn't just miss round one, they literally showed up a week before the final judging with a proposal that literally ignored every bit of guidance DRWC had been giving for the five years previous to that point. Like it's all archived on this forum, for God's sakes. There has been nothing remotely serious about any Sixers proposal up to this point and we're right to laugh them off.

And no, I'm not pessimistic about Philly, I'm pessimistic that the Sixers ownership is presenting something that isn't just smoke and mirrors. That's what I'm pessimistic about.

I think the biggest problem from a design standpoint with the sixers arena proposal on the waterfront was the fact that it included an arena. Besides this unavoidable issue, what exactly was wrong with the sixers proposal? What went against DRWC Guidance?

The biggest problem overall with the proposal was that it included nearly a billion in public financing and they were rightly attacked for it, and it seems like they actually did learn their lesson. We'll see what the details entail, but right now, this is being touted as being 100% privately financed.

Listen I don't want to sit here and tell you trust Josh Harris. I don't think many people can become billionaires and retain much decency and he certainly doesn't seem like a exception. But one thing I'll trust a billionaire to do is try to grab more power and money. Building a center city arena would make Josh Harris more wealthy. You can think the plans are bad or whatever you want, but it's baffling why you think the sixers aren't serious in their pursuit for a new arena. What would they possibly gain from this charade?