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  #1  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 9:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabasse View Post
just curious, what year did you visit tampa? I wouldn't say it has a lively downtown, but compared to 10-15 years ago, there was a marked improvement when i went last fall.
2003
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  #2  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 6:25 PM
ChiMIchael ChiMIchael is offline
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Baltimore always fascinated me because I feel it has more economic advantages than most rust belt cities. I'd pinpoint their struggles to its social failures, but there are some cities that aren't much better but can manage growth.
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  #3  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 7:04 PM
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You can live in the urban parts of Jersey, a few minutes from Manhattan, for the same price as Philly, or even less. So I doubt many people are moving to Philly bc the core RE is cheaper than core RE in the higher cost NE cities.
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  #4  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 7:14 PM
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^ i doubt your doubts. maybe not every person who moves to/within the corridor wants to live in urban jersey.
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  #5  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 7:21 PM
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I know someone that moved to Philly pre-COVID for COL and works remote, but I don't think it's that common. I think the more likely reason for Philly growing again is the same reason New York is growing again: it's too hard to build sprawl in this region anymore.
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  #6  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by IWant2BeInSTL View Post
^ i doubt your doubts. maybe not every person who moves to/within the corridor wants to live in urban jersey.
You previously claimed that people moved to core Philly bc it was cheaper than other urban cores. Now it's been pointed out that the premise is untrue. So, yeah, for the purposes of this discussion, that was your claim.

People move to core Philly bc they like core Philly, not bc it's 30% cheaper than a neighborhood 60 miles away, when a neighborhood 5 miles away is 40% cheaper. That makes no sense. It's like moving to SF to escape high prices in SV, when you could move to Fremont, which is cheaper than SF and closer to SV.

So if I want to be close to Manhattan, but don't want to spend, say $1 million on a small apartment, why would I move to Philly and spend 500k on an apartment, when I could move to West NY and spend 400k on that same apartment?
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  #7  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
You previously claimed that people moved to core Philly bc it was cheaper than other urban cores. Now it's been pointed out that the premise is untrue. So, yeah, for the purposes of this discussion, that was your claim.
wait, so since there is another urban core in the east coast corridor as cheap as Philly, it is not the case that Philly is cheaper than other urban cores within the east coast corridor? think about that logic for a minute. you haven't actually demonstrated that my claim is untrue.

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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
So if I want to be close to Manhattan, but don't want to spend, say $1 million on a small apartment, why would I move to Philly and spend 500k on an apartment, when I could move to West NY and spend 400k on that same apartment?
if you wanted to be close to Manhattan, you wouldn't. but if you didn't want/need to be close to Manhattan, you might.
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  #8  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by IWant2BeInSTL View Post
wait, so since there is another urban core in the east coast corridor as cheap as Philly, it is not the case that Philly is cheaper than other urban cores within the east coast corridor? think about that logic for a minute. you haven't actually demonstrated that my claim is untrue.
Yes. Again, the urban parts of Jersey are as cheap or cheaper than core Philly. Northern NJ, right across the Hudson from Manhattan, has a Chicago-sized swath of higher density urbanity.

So if you wanted to be close to Manhattan, but have lower housing costs in an urban environment, you probably wouldn't first think of Philly.
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Originally Posted by IWant2BeInSTL View Post
if you wanted to be close to Manhattan, you wouldn't. but if you didn't want/need to be close to Manhattan, you might.
Right. So the primary attraction would be Philly, not Philly's relative costs to Manhattan.
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  #9  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Right. So the primary attraction would be Philly, not Philly's relative costs to Manhattan.
Thank you for making that point. It's exhausting to hear the constant cliché of Philadelphia's turnaround only being possible by happenstance of being near NYC.

Not so in the least.
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  #10  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 8:23 PM
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How many census tracts exceed 5000/square mile ?
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  #11  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
How many census tracts exceed 5000/square mile ?
all the interesting ones.
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  #12  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
How many census tracts exceed 5000/square mile ?
93,758,171 people live in census tracts exceeding 5000/sqmi.
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  #13  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 9:21 PM
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From UCLA Newsroom:

UCLA research pinpoints where 2020 census undercounts were most likely in L.A. County

Les Dunseith | August 19, 2021

Prior to the 2020 U.S. census, many observers feared that large segments of the population would be undercounted. Those fears appear to have been realized, according to a UCLA analysis of the census data.

The study, conducted by the UCLA Center for Neighborhood Knowledge, found that in Los Angeles County, residents in some neighborhoods were much more likely than others to be excluded from the 2020 census. Specifically, the research (PDF) concluded that — at the census-tract level — undercounts were most likely in areas where the majority of residents are Hispanic or Asian, have lower incomes, rent their homes or were born outside of the U.S.

Paul Ong, a research professor at the UCLA Luskin School of Public Affairs, and Jonathan Ong of Ong and Associates, a public-interest consulting firm, combed through data published Aug. 12 by the U.S. Census Bureau.

“The results are, unfortunately, consistent with our worst fear that the 2020 enumeration faced numerous potentially insurmountable barriers to a complete and accurate count,” Paul Ong said.

The research team compared the information to earlier population estimates drawn from the census bureau’s American Community Survey to determine whether and where the 2020 enumeration appeared to undercount or overcount the population within each neighborhood in Los Angeles County.

A key difference between the American Community Survey and the 2020 census, Paul Ong said, is that the COVID-19 pandemic severely affected data collection for the census. Previous research showed that disruption was particularly pronounced in disadvantaged neighborhoods. That appears to have created a “differential undercount,” meaning that some populations were more likely than other groups not to be counted. That, in turn, means that the scope of ethnic diversity and demographic change in cities like Los Angeles could be significantly underestimated, he said.



Based on comparisons between the latest census data and the most recent American Community Survey estimates, the UCLA study found that in Los Angeles County:

-Predominantly Hispanic neighborhoods are most likely to have the largest undercounts in the census.

-Neighborhoods with the greatest percentage of people living below the poverty line were most likely to have undercounts.

-Neighborhoods with larger percentages of renters, as opposed to homeowners, were more likely to have undercounts.

-Census tracts in which most people are U.S.-born were more likely to be accurately counted than predominantly immigrant neighborhoods.

The pandemic wasn’t the only factor that hampered data collection for the 2020 census. The effort was also adversely affected by the Trump administration’s highly publicized push to include a citizenship question on the questionnaire. Although that effort was ultimately unsuccessful, Paul Ong said the controversy may have depressed participation among immigrants, whether they were undocumented or not.

“The findings indicate that the needless politicization of the 2020 enumeration seriously dampened participation by those targeted by the Trump administration,” he said.

Problems with the self-reporting aspect of the census placed greater pressure on the subsequent on-the-ground outreach in which census-takers canvassed nonresponding households. The success of that follow-up drive will not be known until a post-census analysis is conducted, which is scheduled for 2022.

The UCLA analysis is consistent with results from previous studies that have shown undercounts likelier to occur in disadvantaged communities. How residents are counted is important because census results influence legislative redistricting and government spending, which means the results can have serious political and economic implications.

“Given the analysis, it is imperative that we address the inequality in the census to ensure fair political representation in redistricting,” Paul Ong said.

Unlike previous corrective efforts, which address census undercounts based on national statistics and results from a comparatively small number of districts, the UCLA research relied on data specific to each neighborhood. As a result, Paul Ong said, the new approach should be more accurate and precise, and it could ultimately help officials understand how to adjust population statistics to account for the differential bias in completing the 2020 census and future counts.



Undercounts are of most concern, but the technique could also help identify overcounts, which are rarer but can occur. Military redeployments may lead to overcounts, for example; other situations include some students who get counted twice while splitting time between home and college, and miscounts of people with second homes or people who experience a stay in a nursing home while also holding a permanent residence.

Ong & Associates, of which Paul Ong is the founder, provided services pro bono for the study.

Link: https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/2...angeles-county
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  #14  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 2:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
From UCLA Newsroom:

UCLA research pinpoints where 2020 census undercounts were most likely in L.A. County

Les Dunseith | August 19, 2021

Prior to the 2020 U.S. census, many observers feared that large segments of the population would be undercounted. Those fears appear to have been realized, according to a UCLA analysis of the census data.

The study, conducted by the UCLA Center for Neighborhood Knowledge, found that in Los Angeles County, residents in some neighborhoods were much more likely than others to be excluded from the 2020 census. Specifically, the research (PDF) concluded that — at the census-tract level — undercounts were most likely in areas where the majority of residents are Hispanic or Asian, have lower incomes, rent their homes or were born outside of the U.S.

Paul Ong, a research professor at the UCLA Luskin School of Public Affairs, and Jonathan Ong of Ong and Associates, a public-interest consulting firm, combed through data published Aug. 12 by the U.S. Census Bureau.

“The results are, unfortunately, consistent with our worst fear that the 2020 enumeration faced numerous potentially insurmountable barriers to a complete and accurate count,” Paul Ong said.

The research team compared the information to earlier population estimates drawn from the census bureau’s American Community Survey to determine whether and where the 2020 enumeration appeared to undercount or overcount the population within each neighborhood in Los Angeles County.

A key difference between the American Community Survey and the 2020 census, Paul Ong said, is that the COVID-19 pandemic severely affected data collection for the census. Previous research showed that disruption was particularly pronounced in disadvantaged neighborhoods. That appears to have created a “differential undercount,” meaning that some populations were more likely than other groups not to be counted. That, in turn, means that the scope of ethnic diversity and demographic change in cities like Los Angeles could be significantly underestimated, he said.



Based on comparisons between the latest census data and the most recent American Community Survey estimates, the UCLA study found that in Los Angeles County:

-Predominantly Hispanic neighborhoods are most likely to have the largest undercounts in the census.

-Neighborhoods with the greatest percentage of people living below the poverty line were most likely to have undercounts.

-Neighborhoods with larger percentages of renters, as opposed to homeowners, were more likely to have undercounts.

-Census tracts in which most people are U.S.-born were more likely to be accurately counted than predominantly immigrant neighborhoods.

The pandemic wasn’t the only factor that hampered data collection for the 2020 census. The effort was also adversely affected by the Trump administration’s highly publicized push to include a citizenship question on the questionnaire. Although that effort was ultimately unsuccessful, Paul Ong said the controversy may have depressed participation among immigrants, whether they were undocumented or not.

“The findings indicate that the needless politicization of the 2020 enumeration seriously dampened participation by those targeted by the Trump administration,” he said.

Problems with the self-reporting aspect of the census placed greater pressure on the subsequent on-the-ground outreach in which census-takers canvassed nonresponding households. The success of that follow-up drive will not be known until a post-census analysis is conducted, which is scheduled for 2022.

The UCLA analysis is consistent with results from previous studies that have shown undercounts likelier to occur in disadvantaged communities. How residents are counted is important because census results influence legislative redistricting and government spending, which means the results can have serious political and economic implications.

“Given the analysis, it is imperative that we address the inequality in the census to ensure fair political representation in redistricting,” Paul Ong said.

Unlike previous corrective efforts, which address census undercounts based on national statistics and results from a comparatively small number of districts, the UCLA research relied on data specific to each neighborhood. As a result, Paul Ong said, the new approach should be more accurate and precise, and it could ultimately help officials understand how to adjust population statistics to account for the differential bias in completing the 2020 census and future counts.



Undercounts are of most concern, but the technique could also help identify overcounts, which are rarer but can occur. Military redeployments may lead to overcounts, for example; other situations include some students who get counted twice while splitting time between home and college, and miscounts of people with second homes or people who experience a stay in a nursing home while also holding a permanent residence.

Ong & Associates, of which Paul Ong is the founder, provided services pro bono for the study.

Link: https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/2...angeles-county
Definitely makes sense. I feel like LA is always severely undercounted. With our incompetent leadership, we never get a recount or corrections to the numbers since they never push for it like NYC and other cities do and get shafted on funding
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  #15  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2021, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
93,758,171 people live in census tracts exceeding 5000/sqmi.
So 1/3 of the country live in an urban or quasi urban area environment . Not bad , wonder what the percentage growth is ?
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  #16  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 12:32 AM
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So 1/3 of the country live in an urban or quasi urban area environment . Not bad , wonder what the percentage growth is ?
In most of developed and mid-income countries, however, this number would be close to 100%.
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  #17  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 12:49 AM
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In most of developed and mid-income countries, however, this number would be close to 100%.
Urban in this case means high(er) density while in the more broader sense meaning in or around a city of which 80% of the US population is "urban".
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  #18  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 12:53 AM
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In most of developed and mid-income countries, however, this number would be close to 100%.
Check out the population densities and built environments of suburban Stockholm or Frankfurt or Helsinki, or suburban UK

three -four story flats surrounding a parking lot and surrounded by small clumps of forest is not appreciably more urban than gridded Miami or Vegas style sprawl
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  #19  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 5:21 PM
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Why is accessing the data always such a shit show? Here we are, the most powerful country on the planet, and our census data runs like it's handled by Serbia.
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  #20  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2021, 6:31 PM
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One one hand they're focusing on the stuff required by law first. On the other hand, some basic god damn tables would be so easy, even with five rounds of review to catch errors.
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