Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5 - Page 743

Old&New · #**14841** Posted **Jan 22, 2023, 3:47 AM**

A campus expansion would really revitalize the neighborhood and keep the history of its ballpark alive. It would also save UTA the headache of having to give Ballpark Station a new name and updating all their maps.

Paniolo Man · #**14842** Posted **Jan 22, 2023, 4:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajiuO

https://www.ksl.com/article/50560628...DM2n_s5qNEFGJA

My vote is for option 1: Keep the main building.

Utah has a nasty habit of tearing down buildings with character. Losing West High would be a travesty. It must be preserved.

As we tear down school buildings with beautiful architecture and focus entirely on optimizing function and cost we end up with schools that look like the one I attended.

Paniolo Man · #**14843** Posted **Jan 22, 2023, 4:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old&New

A campus expansion would really revitalize the neighborhood and keep the history of its ballpark alive. It would also save UTA the headache of having to give Ballpark Station a new name and updating all their maps.

From the U's athletics website:

Quote:

The Utes set season and single-game attendance records at Smith’s Ballpark in 2016 as they won the Pac-12 championship. Utah averaged 1,826 fans over 20 home dates and drew over 2,500 four times. An all-time record crowd of 6,071 was on hand as Utah defeated Washington to win the Pac-12 title outright on the final day of the regular season.

Wikipedia:

Quote:

Smith's Ballpark opened 29 years ago in 1994 with a seating capacity of 15,400

Smith's Ballpark is more than double the size of the U's all time record for game attendance and more than 8 times larger than average attendance in a record season. The U isn't going to save Smith's, it would take a new team moving in.

I'm not rooting for it to be torn down, I'm being pragmatic. 99% chance Smith's Ballpark is toast.

Old&New · #**14844** Posted **Jan 22, 2023, 4:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

Smith's Ballpark is more than double the size of the U's all time record for game attendance and more than 8 times larger than average attendance in a record season. The U isn't going to save Smith's, it would take a new team moving in.

I'm not rooting for it to be torn down, I'm being pragmatic. 99% chance Smith's Ballpark is toast.

Did you not read this?:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comrade

The U attempted to build a stadium over by Sunnyside Avenue and Guardsman Way, where there's currently a baseball field (but not stadium). The local residents banded together and basically stopped it because it would require encroaching into Sunnyside Park.

But the stadium would likely need to be renovated to decrease capacity. It's the second-largest baseball stadium in collegiate baseball and behind TD Ameritrade Park Omaha, which hosts the College Baseball World Series.

...

My thoughts on West is that it would be an utter shame to lose that building. Look at the old East and what they replaced it with to get an idea of what we could be getting here. Just awful all around.

But if you can get another team, that could also work.

Paniolo Man · #**14845** Posted **Jan 22, 2023, 4:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old&New

Did you not read this?:

But if you can get another team, that could also work.

I understand that decreasing capacity is an option, however I don't believe the U will find it justified to:

A: Invest so much in a facility so far removed from their campus when they could cheaply build something adequate much closer.

B: Invest in an entirely new campus because this opportunity exists. The U has a campus and lots of other properties in SLC. A smaller "sub campus" would likely function more like a community college and be better off as part of SLCC.

I just believe that the U isn't going to be the savior of the ballpark. You'd need an act of divine intervention to somehow bring Salt Lake a second team. Even if the U did cut it back to size, it would be a stump of it's former self.

Again, I'm not rooting for it to come down, I just don't see many avenues for it's saving.

Old&New · #**14846** Posted **Jan 22, 2023, 4:38 AM**

But the University of Utah baseball team currently plays on this field... So why not just stay?

Paniolo Man · #**14847** Posted **Jan 22, 2023, 4:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old&New

But the University of Utah baseball team currently plays on this field... So why not just stay?

Correct, but they aren't investing much to do so. If the U became the primary tenant they would need to significantly renovate, which costs a lot of money, thus a relocation to a more "ideal" location. Plus I doubt the U alone is enough for the city to justify keeping the field as-is.

The way I figure it, the only way to keep the field in any recognizable form is to find a tenant that can fill a majority of the seats in the existing configuration. The U isn't capable of doing that.

Old&New · #**14848** Posted **Jan 22, 2023, 4:45 AM**

Salt Lake can get the Oakland A's and Vegas can get the Tampa Rays, or vice versa.

Would arguably be the most beautiful view from the stands in the Major Leagues.

RC14 · #**14849** Posted **Jan 22, 2023, 8:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old&New

Salt Lake can get the Oakland A's and Vegas can get the Tampa Rays, or vice versa.

My dream scenario, although I know it will never happen, would be for the Bees to move to Daybreak and change their name, and for the Oakland A's to move to Smith's Ballpark and change their name to the Salt Lake Bees.

Everything would then be in it's proper place.

As far as the UofU taking over, I'm all for saving the ballpark but I'm not a fan of expanding the campus off campus. I worry this would create inefficiencies and logistical problems for students and staff. It seems to me, the optimal scenario would be to try to maintain a unified campus as much as possible.

locolife · #**14850** Posted **Jan 22, 2023, 3:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old&New

Salt Lake can get the Oakland A's and Vegas can get the Tampa Rays, or vice versa.

Would arguably be the most beautiful view from the stands in the Major Leagues.

The As and Rays both currently had 14K or less fans per game last year, so technically this park could work as long as the new owner is happy with leading the league in low attendance every year. That is arguably a big reason why both teams want to move, poor attendance and poor stadiums. SLC would have the most scenic view in MLB but I'd still say the Pirates have the best city view.

Blah_Amazing · #**14851** Posted **Jan 22, 2023, 7:34 PM**

Took some photos while on transit and walking around January 10 (sorry in advance for the quality of the images because of this) and I thought y'all might still be interested in some updates on a few projects, even if it was over a week ago now.

Projects: 6th and Main, Lotus Republic, Colony B, 1700 S Apartments, The Slate, Sloane Apartments, Jefferson Court, 900 Element Apartments

6th and Main

Lotus Republic

Colony B (1300 S & 200 W)

1700 S Apartments (apparently renamed City Lofts)

The Slate

Sloane Apartments

Jefferson Court (from the back)

900 Element Apartments - S Line and 900 E

delts145 · #**14852** Posted **Jan 22, 2023, 8:38 PM**

Thanks, Blah_Amazing. Needless to say, Amazing update!! Great shot of projects we haven't seen updated for many months.

Comrade · #**14853** Posted **Jan 23, 2023, 1:07 AM**

No MLB team is going to play at Smith's long-term. It just isn't a viable stadium for a Major League team. If Utah were to get a team, Smith's would either be razed and a new stadium built on its site (which would be difficult to do because of Richards Street just south of the park) or they would temporarily play there until a new stadium was built.

While MLB stadiums have seen smaller capacities more recently, they've also seen larger stadiums.

Here's Truist Park where the Braves play overlayed on Smith's Ballpark.

It is an extremely tight fit - like the stadium would be right up against West Temple/Main Street and it would require demolishing a few of those homes on Richards Street.

Doable? Sure - but even then, it's still an extremely tight fit.

bob rulz · #**14854** Posted **Jan 23, 2023, 8:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old&New

A campus expansion would really revitalize the neighborhood and keep the history of its ballpark alive. It would also save UTA the headache of having to give Ballpark Station a new name and updating all their maps.

I don't see any reason why they couldn't keep the Ballpark name for the neighborhood and station. That is a legacy of the neighborhood and were the stadium to go, keeping the name would be a small way of preserving that legacy.

Reeder113 · #**14855** Posted **Jan 23, 2023, 3:37 PM**

Worthington (credit to u/UT_Dave on the subreddit)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Development...bonus_3rd_ave/

Atlas · #**14856** Posted **Jan 23, 2023, 3:57 PM**

Great updates, everyone. 6th+Main looks particularly good. Based on Comrade's post, I actually think a decent sized MLB ballpark could fit where Smith's currently stands. Nothing like Coors Field but something with 25,000-35,000 seats could work within the constraints. Otherwise, I sorta like the idea of turning it into a destination concert venue.

A short aside: a few months ago I ranted about Charlotte being car-centric and dead during the day. Well, now I just got back from Austin, another southern city with sub-par rail transit, and I have to say that it was like night and day by comparison. Austin was great. Despite being very car-centric, the downtown was bustling all day and into the night and great food & beverage options were everywhere. The new architecture is very impressive and they are building condos. Why can't SLC get any proper condos?

Anyone else think that tower on the left in the second picture looks more than a little like Worthington?

Enemy4thePeople · #**14857** Posted **Jan 23, 2023, 4:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajiuO

https://www.ksl.com/article/50560628...DM2n_s5qNEFGJA

My vote is for option 1: Keep the main building.

I'm inclined to think West High alums be the only ones who shouldn't be allowed to contribute their opinion to this decision. Nostalgia is not a justifiable basis for rational decision making in public policy.

It just seems silly to say, "The building is a problem. We need to do something about this very old building that can't meet our needs anymore." Then commission a study from experts who go on to determine retrofitting the old problematic building will be expensive, difficult, and ultimately insufficient. Only to have everyone come back and say, "save the building anyway." When in reality, they don't actually care about the building, they just care about the facade. And saving the facade is incorporated in the available options.

There probably aren't any interior details like the Utah Theater, and if there are, they can probably be preserved, too. But nobody cares about the bathrooms that were renovated 50 years ago. No one cares about the teacher's lounge. No one cares about the corridors or the lockers. Or the classroom doors. Or the ancient mechanical systems. Or the drop ceilings.

The facade looks nice because when you build a building, you put more money and time into the street face. You use the best looking bricks. You take extra time to put in that extra effort to make everything as nice as you can make it. But you know what happens when you turn the corner? It's CMU and stucco. That's where you save money and make up time on your schedule.

The only justifiable preservationist argument is preserving the embodied energy of the existing building. But this goes out the window if you expend more energy and carbon than what you're preserving just to get that done. And worse, since you also have to compromise on the efficiencies of modern mechanical systems because of the retrofit, you're now expending more energy over the life of the preserved building, too.

Ultimately, fond memories and a desire to preserve the disposable and outdated viscera of a building is not worth our collective tax dollars to accommodate, and it's selfish and shortsighted to think it is.

delts145 · #**14858** Posted **Jan 23, 2023, 6:04 PM**

Very much agree with you Enemy4thePeople. Preserve the beautiful facade. As long as they don't pull an East High where the original facade is demoed and the replacement falls short and is only vaguely familiar. I'm thinking along the line of the Brooks Arcade building. They could actually give the building a more attractive interior than what is there now and not spend nearly as much trying to rehab the guts. I saw a national poll and article recently regarding the most beautiful high schools in the country. Ogden's was right there on the shortlist. West of course doesn't have all of the beautiful Deco elements inside and out, but it is definitely a beautiful facade, and its period character must be preserved

zurich · #**14859** Posted **Jan 23, 2023, 7:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlas

Great updates, everyone. 6th+Main looks particularly good. Based on Comrade's post, I actually think a decent sized MLB ballpark could fit where Smith's currently stands. Nothing like Coors Field but something with 25,000-35,000 seats could work within the constraints. Otherwise, I sorta like the idea of turning it into a destination concert venue.

A short aside: a few months ago I ranted about Charlotte being car-centric and dead during the day. Well, now I just got back from Austin, another southern city with sub-par rail transit, and I have to say that it was like night and day by comparison. Austin was great. Despite being very car-centric, the downtown was bustling all day and into the night and great food & beverage options were everywhere. The new architecture is very impressive and they are building condos. Why can't SLC get any proper condos?

Anyone else think that tower on the left in the second picture looks more than a little like Worthington?

Austin has thousands of high paying tech jobs downtown who want to also live there. They have Zilker Park which is massive, 18+ miles of hike and bike trail and more parks all along the river, UT, the Capital... and on and one. Until Salt Lake pays incentives to have a Meta, Google, Microsoft relocate or build a massive presence downtown, SLC will pale in comparison. If SLC really did burry the rail downtown and created a park on top, or if they design / build some sort of long/wide trail system, add a massive food hall, more restaurants and start building condos, I think downtown will be amazing. I know its controversial, so I don't want to open a can of worms, but if they do build the Gondola up Little Cottonwood and there was a light rails or trail system that connected to it from downtown, I think that would also be a game changer.

jedikermit · #**14860** Posted **Jan 23, 2023, 8:02 PM**

Great article in Building Salt Lake about what could be replacing the Wells Fargo building in Sugar House (2100 S 1100 E) -- another residential building, BUT Mass Timber: https://buildingsaltlake.com/develop...imber-project/ (no renderings yet)