Transit Fantasies

[wabooba]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Could be tunnelled

Agreed, and yes, I think that's the best way. But, again, it's $$$$$ the cost.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I'd suggest a train that goes Abby > Aldergrove Interchange > TWU > Carvolth (via Highway 1) and ducks into a tunnel to Whalley or Guildford. Less useful, but much cheaper; we can always extend across the Fraser in a decade or two.

[bloomtronzero]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I'd suggest a train that goes Abby > Aldergrove Interchange > TWU > Carvolth (via Highway 1) and ducks into a tunnel to Whalley or Guildford. Less useful, but much cheaper; we can always extend across the Fraser in a decade or two.

Anything in the Highway 1 right of way could probably be more cheaply done with barrier-separated buses using their own exits and still be as-or-more effective.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I'd suggest a train that goes Abby > Aldergrove Interchange > TWU > Carvolth (via Highway 1) and ducks into a tunnel to Whalley or Guildford. Less useful, but much cheaper; we can always extend across the Fraser in a decade or two.

Or perhaps instead of heading to Whalley, it tunnels North for a bit and then interlines with the WCE heading to Waterfront ?

I would think that the terminus at Carvolth wouldn't be a selling point to get it done since I imagine that passengers aren't traveling to and from Carvolth and Abbotsford with those final destinations in mind.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by wabooba

Agreed, and yes, I think that's the best way. But, again, it's $$$$$ the cost.

Hence why it will be complete in the year 2XXX, hopefully where The Boring Company has innovated tunnelling to the point where it's economically viable to tunnel between Alaska and Russia as well as from Vancouver to Victoria.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I'd suggest a train that goes Abby > Aldergrove Interchange > TWU > Carvolth (via Highway 1) and ducks into a tunnel to Whalley or Guildford. Less useful, but much cheaper; we can always extend across the Fraser in a decade or two.

Yeah and then a frequent all day bus, or RapidBus if you wanna get spicy, linking the future Langley Centre skytrain station with Carvolth Exchange WCE station via 200th street, and then watch the density.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Yeah and then a frequent all day bus, or RapidBus if you wanna get spicy, linking the future Langley Centre skytrain station with Carvolth Exchange WCE station via 200th street, and then watch the density.

Bring it all the way to Maple Ridge while you're at it. I believe that's part of Transport 2050.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Bring it all the way to Maple Ridge while you're at it. I believe that's part of Transport 2050.

You are correct, it's a 5 year plan I believe.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by scryer

Very true.

I almost feel like it just needs to be simplified with a renewed local transit master plan. Abbotsford may need to start from scratch with basic North-South, East-West lines aiming for more frequent transit, and then develop subsidiary lines from there.

I am sure that residents would throw a stink if their windey suburban routes directly into Abbotsford Center get kiboshed but the trade-off could be that those new North-South Routes can run at an increased frequency and connect with an East-West line that also runs more frequently as well. This could help develop a spine of transit for Abbotsford ?

The spaghettified road network doesn't help. For a start, they could close off South Fraser Way at Jubilee (drivers will riot, but whatever) and with a few appropriations, connect both sides of McCallum Road; that lets them have an east-west B-Line from Highstreet Mall straight through Sevenoaks and "downtown" to Sumas Mountain and northeast-south from Ten Oaks to UFV. Then maybe later north-southwest from Gladwin to YXX.

[scryer]

-Delete-

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The spaghettified road network doesn't help. For a start, they could close off South Fraser Way at Jubilee (drivers will riot, but whatever) and with a few appropriations, connect both sides of McCallum Road; that lets them have an east-west B-Line from Highstreet Mall straight through Sevenoaks and "downtown" to Sumas Mountain and northeast-south from Ten Oaks to UFV. Then maybe later north-southwest from Gladwin to YXX.

Without closing off Souther Fraser Way, this is the redesign I came up with using 8/13 bus lines that Abbotsford currently has:



Red - Old Yale Line
Blue - South Fraser Line
Dark Green - Marshall Line
Pink - Maclure Line
Orange - Clearbrook Line
Light Green - Gladwin Line
Cyan - Gladys/McCallum Line
Yellow - Airport YXX Express
Squares - Major Convergences, NOT stations

Translucent Yellow Squares - Local line connectivity studies

My goal here was to create a high frequency bus network that reaches the outskirts of Abbotsford's suburbia. As a city that sprawls to have nearly the same jurisdiction of area as Winnipeg (comparing 375km2 to 461.78km2, according to Google), there is a lot of area to cover.

I also wanted to highlight the major nodes of convergence within this system because each of those nodes present an opportunity for local bus routes to terminate into if it makes sense to do so. Which brings me onto my next point...

The translucent yellow squares underneath the high frequency lines are study areas to propose local lines that feed into the high frequency network. And before I go on...

Now let me be clear, this is a high frequency bus system, NOT a BRT system with its own dedicated roads. Although if we really want to get into the fantasy of it all, I would like the interlined portion of the Red and Blue lines with their own bus lanes. But I digress ...

I realize that the problem with thinking that local routes would feed into a high frequency route is that it would increase the amount of transfers. But by initially lowering the total number of bus routes we have today in favour of increasing frequency and reliability, I would hope that this network would be able to increase ridership and ultimately change the local mentality towards buses.

[scottN]

Originally Posted by scryer

Without closing off Souther Fraser Way, this is the redesign I came up with using 8/13 bus lines that Abbotsford currently has:



Red - Old Yale Line
Blue - South Fraser Line
Dark Green - Marshall Line
Pink - Maclure Line
Orange - Clearbrook Line
Light Green - Gladwin Line
Cyan - Gladys/McCallum Line
Yellow - Airport YXX Express
Squares - Major Convergences, NOT stations

Translucent Yellow Squares - Local line connectivity studies

My goal here was to create a high frequency bus network that reaches the outskirts of Abbotsford's suburbia. As a city that sprawls to have nearly the same jurisdiction of area as Winnipeg (comparing 375km2 to 461.78km2, according to Google), there is a lot of area to cover.

I also wanted to highlight the major nodes of convergence within this system because each of those nodes present an opportunity for local bus routes to terminate into if it makes sense to do so. Which brings me onto my next point...

The translucent yellow squares underneath the high frequency lines are study areas to propose local lines that feed into the high frequency network. And before I go on...

Now let me be clear, this is a high frequency bus system, NOT a BRT system with its own dedicated roads. Although if we really want to get into the fantasy of it all, I would like the interlined portion of the Red and Blue lines with their own bus lanes. But I digress ...

I realize that the problem with thinking that local routes would feed into a high frequency route is that it would increase the amount of transfers. But by initially lowering the total number of bus routes we have today in favour of increasing frequency and reliability, I would hope that this network would be able to increase ridership and ultimately change the local mentality towards buses.

Local routes can join up with bigger routes as they head into town or to an exchange. The vancouver bus routes do this along Hastings street (20, 16), Powell Street (7), west 4th avenue (7) and broadway (8, 16, 17). Surrey has a similar convergence on 72nd ave for all the routes going into the Newton exchange

[Migrant_Coconut]

Not bad at all! Run those every 10-15 minutes all day, and it's bound to be at least ten times more useful than what Abby has now... maybe pass it up to somebody in BC Transit?

Though I figure sooner or later, somebody's got to put Cyan out of its misery...

[scryer]

Originally Posted by scottN

Local routes can join up with bigger routes as they head into town or to an exchange. The vancouver bus routes do this along Hastings street (20, 16), Powell Street (7), west 4th avenue (7) and broadway (8, 16, 17). Surrey has a similar convergence on 72nd ave for all the routes going into the Newton exchange

For sure . That's the whole idea behind doing local route studies is to see where that would make the most sense.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Not bad at all! Run those every 10-15 minutes all day, and it's bound to be at least ten times more useful than what Abby has now...

Yeah, that's definitely the idea: lowering the amount of routes that Abbotsford has now so that more buses can be concentrated to improve the frequency of service .

To be fair, at the end of this proposal, I may not be able to lower the amount of all routes depending on how many local routes are needed to supplement the frequent bus network. But it's a start.

[jollyburger]

For a Downtown Hastings line, I wonder if it would make more sense to go down Georgia through the new St Pauls Hospital campus. Start either from the West End somewhere, downtown, new Chinatown/Pacific Blvd station, St Pauls. Then cut up to Hastings from somewhere near Glen/Clark.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

For a Downtown Hastings line, I wonder if it would make more sense to go down Georgia through the new St Pauls Hospital campus. Start either from the West End somewhere, downtown, new Chinatown/Pacific Blvd station, St Pauls. Then cut up to Hastings from somewhere near Glen/Clark.

Where would the OMC go?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by mcj

Where would the OMC go?

I guess wherever they plan to stick the OMC for the North Shore/Burnaby line since I'm not sure if the Hastings is doable on its own. Only real option I think is connecting to another of the main lines or next to the Second Narrows bridge on the North Van side or maybe near the highway on Willingdon?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I guess wherever they plan to stick the OMC for the North Shore/Burnaby line since I'm not sure if the Hastings is doable on its own. Only real option I think is connecting to another of the main lines or next to the Second Narrows bridge on the North Van side or maybe near the highway on Willingdon?

The best choice decided by the design studio in my head would be either sharing space with the existing North Shore works yard east of the Second Narrows with a bit of land reclamation between the water mains, or convincing BCIT to allow space at the south end of their campus.

As for land near the highway, the Willingdon Lands at Canada Way and Willingdon look like an easy candidate, but they're bought and paid for by the Musqueam and Tsleil Waututh with Aquilini Developments. A station would probably be an easy slam dunk there. OMC? Not so much. Any land around Still Creek is too prone to flooding.

One other option I thought is potentially if Translink could acquire the Rona and light industrial buildings at Gladstone and Cotton in North Vancouver. It has the slight advantage of being in the City of North Van rather than the District (so a bit more likely for any approvals).

[Migrant_Coconut]

Either keep it as an extension of the Expo from Waterfront (through International Village to Venables and back up to Hastings-Sunrise), or add a switch so that a decade or two later it can branch off at the St Paul's station and down Robson to Stanley Park. That lets them use the Edmonds depot and keep going as far as Lochdale instead of depending on North Shore-Willingdon.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Either keep it as an extension of the Expo from Waterfront (through International Village to Venables and back up to Hastings-Sunrise), or add a switch so that a decade or two later it can branch off at the St Paul's station and down Robson to Stanley Park. That lets them use the Edmonds depot and keep going as far as Lochdale instead of depending on North Shore-Willingdon.

Strategic detour around the DTES I see.