DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Just for giggles I googled cheapest places to live

https://realestate.usnews.com/places...places-to-live

1. Hickory, NC
2. Green Bay, WI
3. Huntsville, AL
4. Quad Cities, IA-IL (Davenport-Bettendorf, IA & Moline-Rock Island, IL)
5. Fort Wayne, IN
6. Pittsburgh, PA
7. Beaumont, TX
8. Fayetteville, AR
9. Peoria, IL
10. Youngstown, OH
11. Grand Rapids, MI
12. Des Moines, IA
13. South Bend, IN
14. Huntington, WV & Ashland, KY-OH
15. Greenville, SC

Maybe some of you 'young guns' could study what these cities are doing right that Colorado/Denver could learn from and copy.

Greenville, Des Moines, Grand Rapids, and Pittsburgh are all quite nice places. The others? They are cheap because nobody wants to move there.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Have you ever considered being a lobbyist? It might just be a worthwhile venture.

You go.....we gooooo

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Just for giggles I googled cheapest places to live

https://realestate.usnews.com/places...places-to-live

1. Hickory, NC
2. Green Bay, WI
3. Huntsville, AL
4. Quad Cities, IA-IL (Davenport-Bettendorf, IA & Moline-Rock Island, IL)
5. Fort Wayne, IN
6. Pittsburgh, PA
7. Beaumont, TX
8. Fayetteville, AR
9. Peoria, IL
10. Youngstown, OH
11. Grand Rapids, MI
12. Des Moines, IA
13. South Bend, IN
14. Huntington, WV & Ashland, KY-OH
15. Greenville, SC

Maybe some of you 'young guns' could study what these cities are doing right that Colorado/Denver could learn from and copy.

I'd say what they've done that Denver hasn't is be in a location where not many people want to be Or maybe that's just me, but you couldn't pay me to live in any of those cities. Less demand = more housing supply?

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Denverinfill recently posted a GOLIATH roundup regarding the North quadrant of RiNo. There are 22 projects in total that they cover. Absolutely insane

https://denverinfill.com/2022/09/riv...-sep-2022.html

[TakeFive]

Thanks for the feedback

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Greenville, Des Moines, Grand Rapids, and Pittsburgh are all quite nice places. The others? They are cheap because nobody wants to move there.

You are likely more familiar with than I am but I had wondered about the same cities.

I have a Denver Nuggets blog buddy who's an IT guy living in the Quad Cities and I knew that was a mixed bag; but Des Moines is considered pretty nice I thought.

I love Pittsburgh's baseball stadium and the Steelers are an iconic franchise. They've done a solid job with transit including Bus Rapid Transit.

Is Greenville SC a nice place to live?

Considered to be a nice, small city with friendly and outgoing people, Greenville has recently landed on the radar of a lot of individuals considering making a move. Within driving distance to both the beach and the mountains, as well as thriving downtown, this is a lovely spot to call home.

Is Grand Rapids a good city to live in?

Grand Rapids is in Kent County and is one of the best places to live in Michigan. Living in Grand Rapids offers residents a dense suburban feel and most residents own their homes. In Grand Rapids there are a lot of bars, restaurants, coffee shops, and parks.

Certainly, livability and desirability are not the same thing as affordability.

This Absolutely

Originally Posted by COtoOC

I'd say what they've done that Denver hasn't is be in a location where not many people want to be Or maybe that's just me, but you couldn't pay me to live in any of those cities. Less demand = more housing supply?

Going back a decade or so I'd say the key differences are likely economic drivers and Millennial appeal.

For Denver it's always been about the Rocky Mountains for many; but go back several decades the city/metro grew at a more modest pace often reflecting a boom and bust economy.

[TakeFive]

The Beauty of the Industrial Landscape

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Denverinfill recently posted a GOLIATH roundup regarding the North quadrant of RiNo. There are 22 projects in total that they cover. Absolutely insane

https://denverinfill.com/2022/09/riv...-sep-2022.html

BTW, that post caused rapid onset for a headache. Who can keep track of all that 'crap'?

Once again, it's worth pointing out the genius of FasTracks

FasTracks lit the fuse for what became a Wild Fire of development.

38th and Blake Station

quickly became a bookend anchor for RiNo's development.

All That Land

for development given an industrial canvass is easy to paint over.

For years we've read about this entity buying X parcel in RiNo. There's easily a decade worth of projects ahead. A lot of that post by Dravitz (as he points out) is a result of wanting to beat the DCC's new affordability act.

Two specific "likes" about that post

1) The Arkins Promenade insert and 2) the funky Vib Hotel RiNo which I rather like. Props to Best Western.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Just for giggles I googled cheapest places to live

https://realestate.usnews.com/places...places-to-live

1. Hickory, NC
2. Green Bay, WI
3. Huntsville, AL
4. Quad Cities, IA-IL (Davenport-Bettendorf, IA & Moline-Rock Island, IL)
5. Fort Wayne, IN
6. Pittsburgh, PA
7. Beaumont, TX
8. Fayetteville, AR
9. Peoria, IL
10. Youngstown, OH
11. Grand Rapids, MI
12. Des Moines, IA
13. South Bend, IN
14. Huntington, WV & Ashland, KY-OH
15. Greenville, SC

Maybe some of you 'young guns' could study what these cities are doing right that Colorado/Denver could learn from and copy.

A majority of those cities have lost population or had slow growth in the last 10 years. Much easier to have available housing stock which equates to cheaper living when your city is losing population. The few exceptions are in traditionally cheaper states to live.

[TakeFive]

Some (not all) statistics tell a valid story

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

A majority of those cities have lost population or had slow growth in the last 10 years. Much easier to have available housing stock which equates to cheaper living when your city is losing population. The few exceptions are in traditionally cheaper states to live.

I thought I recalled Huntsville having some appeal.

Why is Huntsville Alabama famous?

Huntsville is a city in northern Alabama that initially grew because of its cotton and railroad industries, but today it is best known for its military technology and aerospace industries. It was here that scientists designed and tested the Saturn V rocket that would send men to the moon for the first time.

Fayetteville AR appears to be a mix of the University Of and Walmart and other Fortune 500 companies in the vicinity.

I love demographic data and migration trends.

The Urbanization of America

has been ongoing for decades, especially to coastal cities and states.

The de- industrialization of America ofc led to the Rust Belt.

The Pandemic led to a reversal of above to a degree, especially in places like California, Chicago, Portland etc

The Great Recession led to a Millennial surge in urban growth to include cities in flyover country like Denver and Salt Lake City.

The re-industrialization of America which has gained momentum in recent years, led early by foreign vehicle manufacturing companies, has benefitted primarily the SE and South in general. States like Michigan, Ohio and Indiana have had some success retooling their economies. While 'these people' are everywhere these states have attracted lots of Eastern European and middle-eastern immigrants.

Obviously Denver has 'suffered' from especially rapid growth in recent years which is typical for many tech-driven hubs.

Going back to one of my recent posts it's really important for Denver to gain a bad reputation for various reasons; then 'we' can go back to being more affordable again.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Some (not all) statistics tell a valid story

I thought I recalled Huntsville having some appeal.

Why is Huntsville Alabama famous?


Fayetteville AR appears to be a mix of the University Of and Walmart and other Fortune 500 companies in the vicinity.

I love demographic data and migration trends.

The Urbanization of America

has been ongoing for decades, especially to coastal cities and states.

The de- industrialization of America ofc led to the Rust Belt.

The Pandemic led to a reversal of above to a degree, especially in places like California, Chicago, Portland etc

The Great Recession led to a Millennial surge in urban growth to include cities in flyover country like Denver and Salt Lake City.

The re-industrialization of America which has gained momentum in recent years, led early by foreign vehicle manufacturing companies, has benefitted primarily the SE and South in general. States like Michigan, Ohio and Indiana have had some success retooling their economies. While 'these people' are everywhere these states have attracted lots of Eastern European and middle-eastern immigrants.

Obviously Denver has 'suffered' from especially rapid growth in recent years which is typical for many tech-driven hubs.

Going back to one of my recent posts it's really important for Denver to gain a bad reputation for various reasons; then 'we' can go back to being more affordable again.

Yes. I think the big drawback to Denver is people are rude here. Very rude, in an almost backwater way.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Yes. I think the big drawback to Denver is people are rude here. Very rude, in an almost backwater way.

Not really joking when I ask this, but do you have a noticeable Texas accent? You might be confusing rude with hostility.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Denverinfill recently posted a GOLIATH roundup regarding the North quadrant of RiNo. There are 22 projects in total that they cover. Absolutely insane

https://denverinfill.com/2022/09/riv...-sep-2022.html

Originally Posted by TakeFive

BTW, that post caused rapid onset for a headache. Who can keep track of all that 'crap'?

Man… That post was a bear to write but I’m glad I finally got done with it. The “East quadrant” and Cole that’s coming up next isn’t much smaller. There’s just so much going on up there. In the future though, things will probably tame down as some of those concept plans are expected to fall off.

As far as keeping track of everything.. We have a (don’t mean to boast) beautiful spreadsheet. It’s carefully crafted to make data entry from e-permits graceful, track when our last post was on said project while giving us an easy glance at all the project stats and statuses.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Man… That post was a bear to write but I’m glad I finally got done with it. The “East quadrant” and Cole that’s coming up next isn’t much smaller. There’s just so much going on up there. In the future though, things will probably tame down as some of those concept plans are expected to fall off.

As far as keeping track of everything.. We have a (don’t mean to boast) beautiful spreadsheet. It’s carefully crafted to make data entry from e-permits graceful, track when our last post was on said project while giving us an easy glance at all the project stats and statuses.

You able to port data from e-permits or is it a manual thumb jam process? Just curious on that.


That post was almost too much to go through- thank you for all of the effort. It's still crazy to me how much is going into RiNo and how it's ultimately going to expand the concept of what is considered to be the urban core, aka "downtown" for the general populace. Couple it with GT, Arapahoe Square, and (eventually) River Mile and you're going to have more and more folks having to think about central core neighborhoods as separate destinations.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

You able to port data from e-permits or is a manual thumb jam process?


Just curious on that one.

And that post was almost too much to go through. It's still crazy to me how much is going into RiNo and how it's ultimately going to expand the concept of what is considered to be the urban core for the general populace.

Unfortunately it’s all a manual process right now. I’m sure there’s a way we can create a “listener” for a certain project master record that would record or notify us of any changes but that’s a lot of work to implement, at least for me. Luckily the fields are basic and it only takes around a minute to fill a line out.

That post was on the cusp of too large but I don’t think there will be any that size in the future unless River Mile and Ball take off at the same time or something.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Two specific "likes" about that post

1) The Arkins Promenade insert and 2) the funky Vib Hotel RiNo which I rather like. Props to Best Western.

Has anyone else actually been to the Arkins promenade? Thoughts about it? I have to admit, it feels like a bit of a missed opportunity. The ramps, which were specifically intended to provide wheelchair access, feel too narrow and if that place ever gets busy, they seem woefully undersized. There are some cool hidden components I can see kids loving, but generally the whole thing seems under-utilized and a bit of a miss. Maybe it was a budget thing, who knows, but it sure feels like more could have been done, especially with regards to landscaping and greenery. That said, it's still pretty cool and is a nice amenity along an improving river frontage.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by laniroj

Has anyone else actually been to the Arkins promenade? Thoughts about it? I have to admit, it feels like a bit of a missed opportunity. The ramps, which were specifically intended to provide wheelchair access, feel too narrow and if that place ever gets busy, they seem woefully undersized. There are some cool hidden components I can see kids loving, but generally the whole thing seems under-utilized and a bit of a miss. Maybe it was a budget thing, who knows, but it sure feels like more could have been done, especially with regards to landscaping and greenery. That said, it's still pretty cool and is a nice amenity along an improving river frontage.

Feels like it doesn't engage well with the river itself and I'm unsure if that's a flood-plain issue or a budget issue. Hurley Place Phase II and the redevelopment of the Pepsi Plant will be the catalysts that will make or break the success of the Promenade from 35th to 38th.


Also, where the hell is the Zeppelin pedestrian bridge at 35th? Did Kyle lose interest now that cities are dead and all the white folks are living in the mountains? Or is the city actually serious about relocating Ringsby Court?

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Not really joking when I ask this, but do you have a noticeable Texas accent? You might be confusing rude with hostility.

Yes, I do. Sorry, but being hostile to someone because of their accent IS rude. This supports what I meant by backwater: people here are rude to outsiders and anyone who isn’t exactly like them, which is exactly what so many liberals (let’s be honest with ourselves: the majority of people in Denver self-describe as liberals) accuse conservatives of doing.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Man… That post was a bear to write but I’m glad I finally got done with it.

I could only make a wild guess at the hours of effort needed... but glad you've found a system that will ease the way going forward.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Yes, I do. Sorry, but being hostile to someone because of their accent IS rude. This supports what I meant by backwater: people here are rude to outsiders and anyone who isn’t exactly like them, which is exactly what so many liberals (let’s be honest with ourselves: the majority of people in Denver self-describe as liberals) accuse conservatives of doing.

One of the hardest things in life is to learn to not take things personally. Yeah, it's really hard.

Think of a couple of one-liners as a comeback: "If it weren't for my accent nobody would notice me." - OR - "It's just my handicap that I've learned to live with." Speaking of politics.

Taking it to the top

Consider the plight of Pres Biden; the guy doesn't have the prettiest cover and in a day of social media on top of normal politics it becomes too easy and too much fun to judge the book by its cover.

For those actually paying attention I can't think of a better person to be Commander-in-Chief during Ukraine invasion times. Going back a year or so I can't think of a time when so much game-changing legislation has been passed. Whether Biden gets due credit is a different question and a few of the bills were passed on a bi-partisan effort. The more important point is the benefits that will accrue over the next decade and beyond are huge.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

One of the hardest things in life is to learn to not take things personally. Yeah, it's really hard.

Think of a couple of one-liners as a comeback: "If it weren't for my accent nobody would notice me." - OR - "It's just my handicap that I've learned to live with.”

A harder thing in life is learning how to treat people equally and not show bias against them for “a handicap.”

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Yes, I do. Sorry, but being hostile to someone because of their accent IS rude. This supports what I meant by backwater: people here are rude to outsiders and anyone who isn’t exactly like them, which is exactly what so many liberals (let’s be honest with ourselves: the majority of people in Denver self-describe as liberals) accuse conservatives of doing.

Not sure it is accents in general, so much as a very specific accent and/or region of the country. Our relationship with the south started out terrible and this is a city that happily named a central downtown street after Sherman and put it right after Lincoln and before Grant (during the time when Grant was still alive, and possibly still president no less). But we have a long-standing hatred for Texas that goes back to before we were a state and we have definitely despised Texas since the Battle of Glorieta Pass for sure... We named streets and avenues after a bunch of states, but skipped over Texas.

When I was a kid this continued because of the humiliation of Super Bowl XII and strong sports teams out of Texas - and the crazy thing is you could wear Raiders or 49'ers gear and just get shrugs (despite being assumed to be a gang member) but no one would be caught dead in a Cowboys jersey. And it was everywhere - I remember people booing the very mention of Texas at Juneteenth in 5 Points, and have seen people guide people way out of their way to a "Memphis" or "St. Louis" BBQ instead of a "Texas" BBQ joint.

And in my experience we've been pretty accepting of people from all kinds of backgrounds and experiences - it's not perfect, but nowhere is... but we're probably right behind New Mexico in the ranks of Texan intolerance.