PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by summersm343

If the one in Center City is 21st and Ludlow parking lot, then I heard the same rumor. Is it that one?

Hmmm.. haven't heard the Temple one, but I would guess it's the block at Broad and Oxford??? Temple has been trying to develop this block since I was a Temple student LOL.

Aw man, I was hoping that the game could keep going

Yes, it's 21st and Ludlow. Not a rumor.

Re: Temple, it is currently a fully occupied parcel with a rather recent construction on it.

[TempleGuy1000]

My most desired random parking lot to see go is 13th and Market or the PECO lot. Either of those I would be pumped to see disappear.

Around Temple, maybe the Broad and Jefferson tower is back a live were the odd shaped church is now.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Aw man, I was hoping that the game could keep going

Yes, it's 21st and Ludlow. Not a rumor.

Re: Temple, it is currently a fully occupied parcel with a rather recent construction on it.

Haha woop! Happy this lot is biting the dust finally.

Soooo that literally leaves the PECO lot and the Mandeville place lot with no active plans in the stretch between 21st Street, the Schuylkill, Walnut Street and JFK Blvd... that's amazing!

RE Temple... I have no clue then LOL

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Yes, it's 21st and Ludlow. Not a rumor.

Nice!

[blorkishdork]

For the Temple lot, is it the SW corner of Broad and Cecil B Moore? where the movie theater etc are?

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by blorkishdork

For the Temple lot, is it the SW corner of Broad and Cecil B Moore? where the movie theater etc are?

Yep.

[skyhigh07]

This is great news! There’s some nice old townhouses and brownstones across the street that always seemed sad having to look at that massive parking lot. Hopefully, this will give some life to that block.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Yep.

It's been a while since I've been a Temple student, but my first three guesses were the church at Broad and Jefferson, the creepy Sunoco at Broad and Thompson, or the former Checkers (where I spent many nights grabbing post-party food haha) near Broad and Girard! With the loss of so many Rite Aid locations recently, I was also about to throw the SE corner of Broad and Susquehanna in there.

I'm glad to hear that another tower will be coming to the area, but I also wish it would happen on the NW corner instead of the SW corner. I used to think about how prime 1700 North Broad was while I was a student. It's too short and stubby to be on North Broad, and it's one of the ugliest buildings left on campus. Regardless, I love to see more density coming to Cecil B. Moore! I hate to admit it, but it's a slightly disappointing retail strip given the size of my alma mater's residential population.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Yep.

This was going to be my guess as well especially since theyve been having issues with violence and QoL issues here for a long time. My guess is their thought is to disrupt the amount of loitering by building to the lot line. Hopefully there will still be retail spaces though.

[iheartphilly]

Just found out Union League is getting a rooftop restaurant built on top of its building. I didn't see it get posted here:

https://www.phila.gov/media/20211209...supplement.pdf

Doubt it will be open to the public since its a members only club.

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Just found out Union League is getting a rooftop restaurant built on top of its building. I didn't see it get posted here:

https://www.phila.gov/media/20211209...supplement.pdf

Doubt it will be open to the public since its a members only club.

I saw this in the CCRA zoning meeting awhile back. Not open to the public unfortunately.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I think you guys are getting hung up on the flashy/pretentious folks. Not everyone that shops at Burberry or Gucci is obsessed with Instagram. I’m not saying that Walnut can or should be the next Rodeo Drive but as others have said the demand is likely there and these stores would add to the visual appeal of the streetscape.

Beat me to it. Some posters are making odd assumptions that those who enjoy shopping or expensive clothes are pretentious or wannabes.
And per my experience with KoP, it reminds me of Tysons, the main suburban shopping destination surrounded by millions of people and many wealthy communities, which naturally adds up to people buying expensive clothes and accessories.

Anyways, we beat a dead horse again, but sounds like we are on the same page, let's hope for more retail momentum in CC.

I also love fashion and shopping, but no loud logos.

Originally Posted by summersm343

KOP vs. Center City Retail...

Guys, it's really not a matter of either or. Philadelphia and it's surrounding metropolitan region is ABSOLUTELY large enough to have two luxury retail centers. We should have a luxury mall in the suburbs and luxury retail downtown.... every major metropolitan area in the United States has this and can support this.

If it wasn't for King of Prussia, most of these retailers would have NO presence at all in the Philadelphia region at the moment. We should be happy that we do have King of Prussia honestly. Look at stores like Fendi, Bottega Veneta, Jimmy Choo, Van Cleef & Arpels, Christian Louboutin, Hermes, Dolce & Gabbana.... these luxury retailers have VERY FEW stores across the United States. The fact that the Philadelphia region has them is a huge plus for the area and the fact that King of Prussia Mall has them is a huge sign of the mall's desirability amongst luxury retailers.

We should not be rooting for Center City retail success at the expense of King of Prussia. We should be rooting for both Center City retail success and King of Prussia retail success. I think then we will truly have a very strong region when it comes to retail. Plus, I don't think the retailers I listed above will come to Center City ANYTIME SOON at all. We need to first lower crime and clean up the city and then create a luxury retail corridor to attract the likes of Louis Vuitton, Gucci, Shinola, Burberry, Cole Haan, Stuart Weitzman, Tory Burch, Longchamp, etc. etc.... only once we attract those luxury retailers to a luxury retail corridor can we start to think bigger.

I think Skyhigh's idea of a luxury retail corridor from 19th to 21st Street along Walnut Street is a brilliant idea.

Great post, per usual.

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

I saw this in the CCRA zoning meeting awhile back. Not open to the public unfortunately.

The one in NYC is undergoing a renovation and there is a rooftop element now too.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Love it! Also love the drawings, the comparisons to Barclays Center and TD Garden and this other little tidbit:

Article:
https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20220808.html

I just noticed this line from the article. Seeing the South side of Market redeveloped (hopefully sooner) would be awesome.

The Sixers expect to partner with the owners of the Fashion District to improve the mall and develop the south side of Market Street, Adelman said. Filbert Street would be turned into a covered arcade lined with amenities.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

KOP is a mistake in the same way that the rest of car-centric America was a mistake. Disregarding it as a "product of the times" is far to convenient.

KOP is a mistake and shouldn't exist. KOP Rail is a mistake and shouldn't be built.

Agree completely on all points. If KOP wants to turn itself into some sort of walkable transit oriented satellite city, absolutely I wish them the best. But there is absolutely no reason why the region should fund a transit line at this time when they're likely a half a century or more away from fully using to its potential. How about they develop into something worth multi-billion dollar transit line before we just give them one.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

The Backbay is way more exclusive and expensive than Rittenhouse. They also get a lot more international visitors.

I definitely would not call Back Bay exclusive. Take a train up and walk down Newbury some time. People here seem to have the wrong idea about what makes it special.

But yeah, you'll be dodging tourists.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by Justin7

I definitely would not call Back Bay exclusive. Take a train up and walk down Newbury some time. People here seem to have the wrong idea about what makes it special.

But yeah, you'll be dodging tourists.

Hmm.. Idk guys. I understand the notion that walking around the Back Bay and Rittenhouse might not be all that different in vibes, BUT it's a fact that the average 1 bedroom apartment rent in the Back Bay is $3225. That locks most people out and is certainly 'exclusive' (I didn't mean like actually exclusive like behind a wall, just that costs of entry are high for living). Rittenhouse an affordable $1850. That's $1,375 a month difference, or 75% more expensive. I can't help but feel retailers look at numbers like that and proceed differently. For comparisons sake, the average 1-br costs $1,981 in King of Prussia. More expensive than Rittenhouse!

https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/boston-ma/back-bay

https://www.zumper.com/rent-research...enhouse-square

https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/king-of-prussia-pa

You have to be a world-class sucker to be paying $2000 a month to live in KOP and that's the average

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

You have to be a world-class sucker to be paying $2000 a month to live in KOP and that's the average

Or it's pretty convenient and if you work in KOP or close to it you may actually be saving time and money. Plus there is no local income tax.

A few of you seem to be really hung up on just aesthetics vs actual form and function and every day life. Like it or not for some people the KOP Town Center is a more urban experience than if they lived in the city because they walk to get their groceries, they walk to their jobs (CHOP), etc.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Or it's pretty convenient and if you work in KOP or close to it you may actually be saving time and money. Plus there is no local income tax.

A few of you seem to be really hung up on just aesthetics vs actual form and function and every day life. Like it or not for some people the KOP Town Center is a more urban experience than if they lived in the city because they walk to get their groceries, they walk to their jobs (CHOP), etc.

I worked 500 feet from KOP Town Centre in 2019. I could not walk between my job and the Town Centre.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I worked 500 feet from KOP Town Centre in 2019. I could not walk between my job and the Town Centre.

But many people who live there can now, though.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Hmm.. Idk guys. I understand the notion that walking around the Back Bay and Rittenhouse might not be all that different in vibes, BUT it's a fact that the average 1 bedroom apartment rent in the Back Bay is $3225. That locks most people out and is certainly 'exclusive' (I didn't mean like actually exclusive like behind a wall, just that costs of entry are high for living). Rittenhouse an affordable $1850. That's $1,375 a month difference, or 75% more expensive. I can't help but feel retailers look at numbers like that and proceed differently. For comparisons sake, the average 1-br costs $1,981 in King of Prussia. More expensive than Rittenhouse!

https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/boston-ma/back-bay

https://www.zumper.com/rent-research...enhouse-square

https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/king-of-prussia-pa

You have to be a world-class sucker to be paying $2000 a month to live in KOP and that's the average

That's because Boston in general is more expensive. Higher wages, higher taxes, higher home prices, higher cost of goods, higher everything. It's not really an apples-to-apples comparison. If you're relocating to Philly from Boston or NYC or DC, SF, Seattle, etc. then yes, under those circumstances, Philly/Rittenhouse is a bargain.