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  #261  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 6:05 PM
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Bulgaria

2021 Census released:

1985 --- 8,948,388
2001 --- 7,932,984 --- -11.3%
2011 --- 7,364,570 ---- -7.2%
2021 --- 6,520,314 --- -11.5%


Sofia

1985 --- 1,198,615
2001 --- 1,173,988 ---- -2.1%
2011 --- 1,291,591 --- +10.0%
2021 --- 1,480,830 --- +14.7%


400,000 people less than the 2020 estimate and 844,000 less than recorded on 2011 Census, a massive -11.46% drop. Bulgarian population has topped in 1988, at 8,981,446, almost 2.5 million more people than today.

Sofia, on the other hand, is growing at an ever faster rate: 14.65% (2021-2011), at boom town numbers. In 1985, 13% of Bulgarians lived in Sofia. Now, it's close to 23%.

The province of Vidin (northwest, bordering Serbia and Romania) has dropped from 166,680 inh. in 1985 to mere 74,493 in 2021.
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  #262  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2022, 10:58 PM
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Canada released its updated metro area population estimates last week. The top 40 by population:

1. Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa, Ontario - 7,819,788
2. Montréal, Quebec - 4,342,213
3. Vancouver-Abbotsford, British Columbia - 2,978,995
4. Calgary, Alberta - 1,559,284
5. Edmonton, Alberta - 1,480,754
6. Ottawa-Gatineau, Ontario-Quebec - 1,476,756
7. Winnipeg, Manitoba - 852,778
8. Québec City, Quebec - 836,837
9. Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo-Guelph, Ontario - 769,978
10. London, Ontario - 556,397

...

11. Halifax, Nova Scotia - 460,274
12. St. Catharines-Niagara Falls, Ontario - 439,777
13. Victoria, British Columbia - 415,573
14. Windsor, Ontario - 351,116
15. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan - 340,086
16. Regina, Saskatchewan - 263,659
17. Sherbrooke, Quebec - 227,403
18. Kelowna, British Columbia - 229,400
19. Barrie, Ontario - 221,576
20. St. John's, Newfoundland - 214,674

...

21. Kingston, Ontario - 176,467
22. Sudbury, Ontario - 172,781
23. Trois-Rivières, Quebec - 164,973
24. Saguenay, Quebec - 163,583
25. Moncton, New Brunswick - 162,422
26. Brantford, Ontario - 154,483
27. Saint John, New Brunswick - 132,499
28. Peterborough, Ontario - 131,608
29. Lethbridge, Alberta - 130,027
30. Thunder Bay, Ontario - 125,247

...

31. Chilliwack, British Columbia - 119,725
32. Nanaimo, British Columbia - 117,972
33. Kamloops, British Columbia - 117,620
34. Belleville, Ontario - 113,729
35. Fredericton, New Brunswick - 112,138
36. Chatham-Kent, Ontario - 107,929
37. Red Deer, Alberta - 105,415
38. Drummondville, Quebec - 102,504
39. Sarnia, Ontario - 100,483
40. Sydney, Nova Scotia - 98,643

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...pid=1710013501
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  #263  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
Canada released its updated metro area population estimates last week. The top 40 by population:

1. Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa, Ontario - 7,819,788
2. Montréal, Quebec - 4,342,213
3. Vancouver-Abbotsford, British Columbia - 2,978,995
4. Calgary, Alberta - 1,559,284
5. Edmonton, Alberta - 1,480,754
6. Ottawa-Gatineau, Ontario-Quebec - 1,476,756
7. Winnipeg, Manitoba - 852,778
8. Québec City, Quebec - 836,837

9. Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo-Guelph, Ontario - 769,978
10. London, Ontario - 556,397

Winnipeg has been supporting its own NHL team for over a decade now.



just saying........
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  #264  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 12:57 AM
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Doesn't Winnipeg have the worst winters of any major Canadian city?

There's apparently nothing else to do in Winnipeg during the winter.
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  #265  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
Canada released its updated metro area population estimates last week. The top 40 by population:

1. Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa, Ontario - 7,819,788
2. Montréal, Quebec - 4,342,213
3. Vancouver-Abbotsford, British Columbia - 2,978,995
4. Calgary, Alberta - 1,559,284
5. Edmonton, Alberta - 1,480,754
6. Ottawa-Gatineau, Ontario-Quebec - 1,476,756
7. Winnipeg, Manitoba - 852,778
8. Québec City, Quebec - 836,837
9. Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo-Guelph, Ontario - 769,978
10. London, Ontario - 556,397

...

11. Halifax, Nova Scotia - 460,274
12. St. Catharines-Niagara Falls, Ontario - 439,777
13. Victoria, British Columbia - 415,573
14. Windsor, Ontario - 351,116
15. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan - 340,086
16. Regina, Saskatchewan - 263,659
17. Sherbrooke, Quebec - 227,403
18. Kelowna, British Columbia - 229,400
19. Barrie, Ontario - 221,576
20. St. John's, Newfoundland - 214,674

...

21. Kingston, Ontario - 176,467
22. Sudbury, Ontario - 172,781
23. Trois-Rivières, Quebec - 164,973
24. Saguenay, Quebec - 163,583
25. Moncton, New Brunswick - 162,422
26. Brantford, Ontario - 154,483
27. Saint John, New Brunswick - 132,499
28. Peterborough, Ontario - 131,608
29. Lethbridge, Alberta - 130,027
30. Thunder Bay, Ontario - 125,247

...

31. Chilliwack, British Columbia - 119,725
32. Nanaimo, British Columbia - 117,972
33. Kamloops, British Columbia - 117,620
34. Belleville, Ontario - 113,729
35. Fredericton, New Brunswick - 112,138
36. Chatham-Kent, Ontario - 107,929
37. Red Deer, Alberta - 105,415
38. Drummondville, Quebec - 102,504
39. Sarnia, Ontario - 100,483
40. Sydney, Nova Scotia - 98,643

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...pid=1710013501
Since when is Guelph a part of the Kitchener-Waterloo CMA? You can’t just combine CMA’s that are close to each other and use that population figure as an official number.

Also, Windsor metro population will be about 420K this year with the addition of the rest of Essex County into the official CMA. The figures above use the old 2020 boundaries.
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  #266  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 4:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by north 42 View Post
Since when is Guelph a part of the Kitchener-Waterloo CMA? You can’t just combine CMA’s that are close to each other and use that population figure as an official number.
Agreed. Same goes for Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa or Vancouver-Abbotsford. Someone took some liberty with the data doing this list.
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  #267  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 4:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laceoflight View Post
Agreed. Same goes for Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa or Vancouver-Abbotsford. Someone took some liberty with the data doing this list.
Ha ha, I didn’t even notice those two! Although I do think it’s more realistic to include Hamilton and Oshawa with Toronto since it’s really just one large contiguous urban area. KW and Guelph are not connected by sprawl yet.
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Last edited by north 42; Jan 22, 2022 at 5:15 PM.
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  #268  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 5:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Doesn't Winnipeg have the worst winters of any major Canadian city?

There's apparently nothing else to do in Winnipeg during the winter.

Well, yeah, but it's not like people in QC are busy hosting backyard pool parties in January.

QC average January high/low: 17.8 F/0.1 F

To put that in context, QC's average January high is 2 degrees colder than chicago's average January low (19.5 F)!

It's a very cold place in the winter up there no matter how you slice it. And yes, Winnipeg is even a little bit colder still.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 22, 2022 at 6:24 PM.
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  #269  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by north 42 View Post
Since when is Guelph a part of the Kitchener-Waterloo CMA? You can’t just combine CMA’s that are close to each other and use that population figure as an official number.

Provincial governments do just that all the time. Something like the GTHA is used more for regional planning purposes than the Toronto CMA is - which really only exists as a statistical relic for StatsCan (the problem here being StatsCan's inflexibility on combining or amending adjacent CMAs regardless of sufficient criteria being met or actual on-the-ground realities). I believe BC does the same thing with respect to the Lower Mainland as well.

Adding Guelph to the Kitchener CMA on the other hand has a bit less precedent.
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  #270  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Provincial governments do just that all the time. Something like the GTHA is used more for regional planning purposes than the Toronto CMA is - which really only exists as a statistical relic for StatsCan (the problem here being StatsCan's inflexibility on combining or amending adjacent CMAs regardless of sufficient criteria being met or actual on-the-ground realities). I believe BC does the same thing with respect to the Lower Mainland as well.

Adding Guelph to the Kitchener CMA on the other hand has a bit less precedent.
Right, I understand the Toronto grouping, but I think the KW-Guelph grouping is still a bit of a stretch, although maybe not in the near future with the way the region is growing.
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  #271  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 8:00 PM
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It always shocks me when I see Vancouver's population numbers... seems like it has had two million and something people for the longest time, but it looks and feels WAY bigger than that.
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  #272  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 5:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Laceoflight View Post
Agreed. Same goes for Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa or Vancouver-Abbotsford. Someone took some liberty with the data doing this list.
yeah I think so. Guelph has never been part of the KWC metro. There are still wide stretches of farmland between the two urban areas.
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  #273  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 7:22 PM
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About Canada, I think it should be:

Toronto+Oshawa+Hamilton+Guelph: 7,989,462 (2021) 7,553,638 (2017) +5.77%

Montreal+Salaberry: 4,386,004 (2021) 4,234,504 (2017) +3.58%

Vancouver+Abbotsford: 2,978,995 (2021) 2,810,294 (2017) +6.00%

P.S. Did Canadians carry the 2021 Census?
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  #274  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BnaBreaker View Post
It always shocks me when I see Vancouver's population numbers... seems like it has had two million and something people for the longest time, but it looks and feels WAY bigger than that.
Outside of Toronto and Montreal, I'm always shocked at how small Canada's cities/metros are. Calgary is only 1.5m, but has a skyline of like Denver and Minneapolis put together. Canadian cities WAY over perform on urban metrics relative to their population. Vancouver being the same size as Tampa is just mindblowing.
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  #275  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
Canada released its updated metro area population estimates last week. The top 40 by population:
21. Kingston, Ontario - 176,467
22. Sudbury, Ontario - 172,781
23. Trois-Rivières, Quebec - 164,973
24. Saguenay, Quebec - 163,583
25. Moncton, New Brunswick - 162,422
26. Brantford, Ontario - 154,483
27. Saint John, New Brunswick - 132,499
28. Peterborough, Ontario - 131,608
29. Lethbridge, Alberta - 130,027
30. Thunder Bay, Ontario - 125,247

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...pid=1710013501
My 15 square mile little colonial city (Alexandria) would be a Top 25 metro in Canada. Pretty crazy how Canada's population just drops off.

You need 2,512,860 people to be a Top 25 metro in USA. In Canada, you need 162,422 people.
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  #276  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 9:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
As Japanese also conducted their census, here a random post for the 4 most important cities in the world: Tokyo, New York, London and Paris.

I worked with strict and broader metro areas for each one of them and also look into their inner core to look into their densities and urban form as well. Note metro area definitions are two of several definitions I worked for each one of them. They're not comparable as administrative divisions are completely different from country to country. If someone is curious about it, just ask.

Anyway, let's start with the two metro area definitions, the wider and the strict:


---------------------- 2020 ------ 2010 ------ 2000 ------ Growth

Tokyo -------------- 36,938,977 -- 35,618,564 -- 33,418,366 ----- 3.7% --- 6.6% ----- 13,566 km²

New York ----------- 22,692,839 -- 21,358,372 -- 20,675,403 ----- 6.2% --- 3.3% ----- 21,770 km²

London ------------- 18,021,857 -- 16,619,216 -- 15,106,200 ----- 8.4% -- 10.0% ----- 17,586 km²

Paris -------------- 12,496,964 -- 11,871,075 -- 11,214,641 ----- 5.3% --- 5.9% ----- 13,355 km²

* Numbers for London: 2020, 2011 and 2011 and for Paris: 2018, 2007 and 1999


---------------------- 2020 ------ 2010 ------ 2000 ------ Growth

Tokyo -------------- 36,425,363 -- 35,043,522 -- 32,810,253 ----- 3.9% --- 6.8% ----- 10,354 km²

New York ----------- 18,430,255 -- 17,255,469 -- 16,788,583 ----- 6.2% --- 3.3% ----- 10,014 km²

London ------------- 16,006,625 -- 14,744,549 -- 13,395,000 ----- 8.6% -- 10.1% ----- 12,162 km²

Paris -------------- 11,238,820 -- 10,661,748 -- 10,053,456 ----- 5.4% --- 6.1% ------ 5,841 km²


Tokyo is in a completely different level. Almost 40 million in a valley and despite Japan's demographic challenges, it's growing.


And now their core:

---------------------- 2020 ------ 2010 ------ 2000 ------ Growth ------ Density

Tokyo -------------- 12,164,192 -- 11,194,879 -- 10,153,306 ----- 8.7% -- 10.3% ----- 842 km² --- 14,466.8 inh./km²

New York ------------ 9,529,044 --- 8,809,399 --- 8,617,253 ----- 8.2% --- 2.2% ----- 898 km² --- 10,611.4 inh./km²

London -------------- 7,075,358 --- 6,431,279 --- 5,671,500 ---- 10.0% -- 13.4% ----- 966 km² ---- 7,328.2 inh./km²

Paris --------------- 6,824,311 --- 6,542,670 --- 6,164,238 ----- 4.3% --- 6.1% ----- 762 km² ---- 8,955.8 inh./km²

We always talk about New York and Paris when talking about high densities, but Tokyo is also the king here.

Another interesting feature is how the core is growing much faster in all of them but Paris. It's the rebirth of the urban living we've talked about in other threads.

* Tokyo: Tokyo, Kawasaki and 4 small districts; New York: New York City and Hudson County, NJ; London: Greater London minus some outer boroughs; Paris: Paris, Seine-Saint-Denis, Val-de-Marne
Tokyo is still growing, but Japan's population isn't yet in freefall. It's in managed decline (2015-2020 had average population loss of 189,000 per year).

I wonder how long Tokyo can last. What happens when Japan starts losing 800,000-1,000,000 people a year? That's when Tokyo could start to struggle.
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  #277  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
My 15 square mile little colonial city (Alexandria) would be a Top 25 metro in Canada. Pretty crazy how Canada's population just drops off.

You need 2,512,860 people to be a Top 25 metro in USA. In Canada, you need 162,422 people.
Syracuse would be like a Hamilton or Winnipeg if it was a Canadian Metro! Move to Canada Syracuse and get some light. You would make the National news more, and maybe even get a CFL team. Move to Canada Minneapolis, and make Montreal a little nervous and Vancouver bitter!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
It's a very cold place in the winter up there no matter how you slice it. And yes, Winnipeg is even a little bit colder still.
Especially right now! Having said that, temperature alone doesn't make feeling cold worse! I would rather take a dry -15 (f) then a -1(f) with dampness and wind..Some of Toronto's milder winter days are probably worse than QC or Winnipeg's colder winter days because of that dampness.Wind not factored in.

Last edited by Razor; Jan 27, 2022 at 12:11 AM.
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  #278  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 1:14 AM
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Originally Posted by BnaBreaker View Post
It always shocks me when I see Vancouver's population numbers... seems like it has had two million and something people for the longest time, but it looks and feels WAY bigger than that.
That's more a factor of the US exaggerated metro areas than anything else. For Canada, Vancouver feels just right with its population number.
Both Toronto and Montreal feel and look much larger than it but Vancouver feels larger than the next group of Cities (Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa)

This tool might give you a better way to compare populations in different countries: https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm
Just set the same radius for everywhere you compare.
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  #279  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 1:27 AM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
Outside of Toronto and Montreal, I'm always shocked at how small Canada's cities/metros are. Calgary is only 1.5m, but has a skyline of like Denver and Minneapolis put together. Canadian cities WAY over perform on urban metrics relative to their population. Vancouver being the same size as Tampa is just mindblowing.
Like most Canada/US comparison Tampa Bay cover a much larger Area than Canadian cities


Vancouver: 2.5 Million people in 2,882 Square Kilometer
Tampa Bay: 3.1 Million people in 6,616 Square kilometer

Toronto: 6.4 Million people in 5,905 Square Kilometer
Chicago: 9.6 million people in 24,815 Square Kilometer

Montreal: 4.1 million people in 4,259 Square Kilometer
Seattle: 4.0 million people in 15,209 Square Kilometer
Minneapolis: 3.7 million people in 21,000 Square Kilometer

Last edited by Nite; Jan 27, 2022 at 2:03 AM.
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  #280  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 1:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
About Canada, I think it should be:

Toronto+Oshawa+Hamilton+Guelph: 7,989,462 (2021) 7,553,638 (2017) +5.77%

Montreal+Salaberry: 4,386,004 (2021) 4,234,504 (2017) +3.58%

Vancouver+Abbotsford: 2,978,995 (2021) 2,810,294 (2017) +6.00%

P.S. Did Canadians carry the 2021 Census?
I don't know why you put Salaberry but you forget to add Lachute and Joliette, which are also urban agglomeration adjacent to the CMA. They will probably merge with the CMA this decade and add 120k people. Montréal should hit 5 million people by 2030.
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