DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

...But be nice to Pueblo. Unless you've spent any time there, it's actually a lovely little city. It has gone through some rough times, like any Rust Belt city, but its historic bones are second only to Denver in Colorado. When I was a kid, the Front Range was Denver, Colorado Springs, Pueblo...

It was really just Denver and Southern Colorado. C Springs and Piiiieblo never really got recognized as their own places! Funny to look back on the good ol' days - you have me craving a Pass Key sausage sammy now...

[twister244]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I give zero shits about Cheyenne. But be nice to Pueblo. Unless you've spent any time there, it's actually a lovely little city. It has gone through some rough times, like any Rust Belt city, but its historic bones are second only to Denver in Colorado. When I was a kid, the Front Range was Denver, Colorado Springs, Pueblo.

Just because Fort Collins is richer and whiter - and thanks in large part to Boulder not becoming an actual city, has grown massively in the last 30 years - does not make it more important than connecting to the historic southern anchor of the Front Range corridor. Which still, by the way, has more people than that community of train whiners, Longmont. I guarantee you train ridership between Pueblo and Colorado Springs (all else equal - depending on exactly where it goes) could match some other Front Range point-to-points (like, say, Longmont to Denver). It needs to be connected, 100%.

Pueblo can be as cute as it wants to be, but it's still only a city of ~110k people, and is surrounded by..... no other population centers. It's 50 miles south of the Springs.... It doesn't deserve a train any more than Boulder does. Sorry.

If Pueblo were to swell to 250k people, and the land between there and the Springs were to suddenly start filling in with major development, then we can revisit a question of whether to even consider having a train go down to Pueblo.

You guys need to remember transit connects destinations that carry enough people from both ends to justify its existence. Having a line from the Springs to FoCo makes sense because there's a lof of people along that corridor. FoCo may technically not be larger by a ton compared to Boulder, Pueblo, but it's surrounded by other major growing communities. Same goes from COS to Denver.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Anybody know when Mcgregor Square or Market Station are going to open? Rockies are starting and was curious if Mcgregor Square would open in tandem.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by twister244

Pueblo can be as cute as it wants to be, but it's still only a city of ~110k people, and is surrounded by..... no other population centers. It's 50 miles south of the Springs.... It doesn't deserve a train any more than Boulder does. Sorry.

If Pueblo were to swell to 250k people, and the land between there and the Springs were to suddenly start filling in with major development, then we can revisit a question of whether to even consider having a train go down to Pueblo.

You guys need to remember transit connects destinations that carry enough people from both ends to justify its existence. Having a line from the Springs to FoCo makes sense because there's a lof of people along that corridor. FoCo may technically not be larger by a ton compared to Boulder, Pueblo, but it's surrounded by other major growing communities. Same goes from COS to Denver.

Well if we are cutting Boulder and Longmont, then fine, happy to cut Pueblo too.

Although it is 38 miles from the house I grew up in in C.S. to Downtown Pueblo. So we are really only talking 35 miles, with existing trackage that can probably be used pretty easily. Relatively speaking, it's an easy add. Much easier than Northern Colorado, actually.

And you should also remember that the last mile problem is a big damn problem, especially in intercity trains. Unless you're planning on massive park-n-rides, it's actually going to be nearly impossible to serve much of that Weld/Larimer County growth with a station in downtown Fort Collins. That's where the older cities - even those with only 110k - have as much ridership potential as all of the Loveland-Greeley MSA combined. Highlands Ranch, my favorite example, is also a hair over 100k, and you wouldn't expect that to generate any ridership at all.

[TakeFive]

Apples to Oranges - or Not?

Originally Posted by twister244

Pueblo can be as cute as it wants to be, but it's still only a city of ~110k people, and is surrounded by..... no other population centers. It's 50 miles south of the Springs.... It doesn't deserve a train any more than Boulder does. Sorry.

My assumption is this would be "regional" Front Range train service funded and run by a different authority and NOT RTD; maybe one (or two) stops per city. If, as bunt points out they can using existing track that's a Big plus.

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

I was around - I moved here in 2004. It doesn't change the fact that they voted on a plan, raised $243 million in tax receipts, and got nothing.

It wasn't RTD's fault that the costs, thanks largely to BNSF more than doubled for the B Line to Boulder.

Chances are high that you might be enlightened by getting up close and personal with RTD's financing from long term (debt) costs to annual revenues and costs. Btw, pre-pandemic RTD gave significant raises to drivers in order to hire, train and retain them. Just one more recurring cost that is providing more financial stress for RTD.

Originally Posted by bunt_q

2018. Ballot Measure 2A. Nothing to do with Elevate.

Passed by a vote of ~ 60% to 40%.

Presumably any funds diverted last year can be easily returned via this year's American Rescue Plan Act

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I give zero shits about Cheyenne. But be nice to Pueblo. Unless you've spent any time there, it's actually a lovely little city. It has gone through some rough times, like any Rust Belt city, but its historic bones are second only to Denver in Colorado. When I was a kid, the Front Range was Denver, Colorado Springs, Pueblo.

I guarantee you train ridership between Pueblo and Colorado Springs (all else equal - depending on exactly where it goes) could match some other Front Range point-to-points (like, say, Longmont to Denver). It needs to be connected, 100%.

I wondered/guessed that traffic between the two cities might be good.

It's kind of like Bustang running "all the way to Grand Junctions" when most of the traffic is between Denver and Frisco and/or Vail-Beaver Creek. It's because it's a regional service for the citizens of the Western Slope (as well as Denver) and just like between Pueblo and Co Springs I assume there's decent ridership between Grand Junction and Glenwood Springs.

Originally Posted by laniroj

It was really just Denver and Southern Colorado. C Springs and Piiiieblo never really got recognized as their own places! Funny to look back on the good ol' days - you have me craving a Pass Key sausage sammy now...

Never had the pleasure but I see they're still alive and well.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Anybody know when Mcgregor Square or Market Station are going to open? Rockies are starting and was curious if Mcgregor Square would open in tandem.

The hotel and plaza are open and were chock full of people today for Opening Day. Some of the retail and restaurants haven’t opened yet.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Nice! I'm excited to check out the plaza

[gopokes21]

Originally Posted by twister244

Pueblo can be as cute as it wants to be, but it's still only a city of ~110k people, and is surrounded by..... no other population centers. It's 50 miles south of the Springs.... It doesn't deserve a train any more than Boulder does. Sorry.

If Pueblo were to swell to 250k people, and the land between there and the Springs were to suddenly start filling in with major development, then we can revisit a question of whether to even consider having a train go down to Pueblo.

You guys need to remember transit connects destinations that carry enough people from both ends to justify its existence. Having a line from the Springs to FoCo makes sense because there's a lof of people along that corridor. FoCo may technically not be larger by a ton compared to Boulder, Pueblo, but it's surrounded by other major growing communities. Same goes from COS to Denver.

I think Pueblo is a great rail terminus because it isn't as wealthy as Boulder. Higher-income people always utilize transit less than lower-income people. Connect people who need access, and you create a virtuous cycle. Connect Boulder to downtown Denver and the rich will still take their EV.

Ianiroj hit the nail on the head that Boulder needs to house people rather than shirk housing, if it's going to demand a $2 billion rail. That's just a massive waste of funding if Boulder is going to remain crystalized as a high-income buffalo preserve.

[rds70]

A new concept review has been submitted to Denver for 899 Broadway - a 16 story, 377 unit apartment building.

I was curious about all the proposals in the Golden Triangle, so I did a search of the Denver records to refresh my memory:

899 Broadway - Concept Review - 16 stories - 377 units
1030 Broadway - Formal Site Development Review - 15 stories - 284 units
1120 Acoma - Formal Site Development Review - 17 stories - 300 units
921 Acoma - Construction - 17 stories - 389 units
1025 Bannock - Formal Site Development Review - 8 stories - 326 units
990 Bannock - Formal Site Development Review - 14 stories - 224 units
970 Cherokee - Concept Review - 17 stories - 324 units
1235 Cherokee - Formal Site Development Review - 17 stories - 248 units
1301 Cherokee - Concept Review - 16 stories - 217 units
1158 Delaware - Concept Review - 12 stories - 168 units
650 West Colfax - Formal Site Development Review - 7 stories - 356 units

Total number of units under construction or review = 3,213

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by gopokes21

...if Boulder is going to remain crystalized as a high-income buffalo preserve.

This is the best label I've ever seen given to Boulder. WELL DONE! I didn't realize buffaloes made so much money!

[SirLucasTheGreat]

I think rds70 is my favorite member of this forum. Thanks for compiling all of that info. My wife and I were riding bikes through Golden Triangle recently and it is really starting to feel so much more urban. I wonder how the scale of potential development in Golden Triangle compares to what was built in Union Station during this past cycle. That's a hell of a lot density.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by rds70

650 West Colfax - Formal Site Development Review - 7 stories - 356 units

Thanks for sharing. What is 650 W Colfax? I thought the City had purchased those parcels for expanded courthouse operations or something? Wasn't aware a multifamily deal was making it's way through. Any visuals? Can't seem to find any...at least free stuff.

[The Dirt]

Anyone know what's up with this project? Such a prime location, good looking project, designg by a reputable architecture firm, but they've literally had a disassembled crane sitting on site for several years now. Those things are usually leased, so that's gotta be expensive, no?

https://denverinfill.com/2018/12/new...th-alcott.html

[TakeFive]

It's a Case of COVID Blues

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Anyone know what's up with this project? Such a prime location, good looking project, designg by a reputable architecture firm, but they've literally had a disassembled crane sitting on site for several years now. Those things are usually leased, so that's gotta be expensive, no?

Normally, I'd dial up a good Blues Tune but given tonight's Avalanche euphoria I'll save it.

It's a good guess that Yitzchak Tessler is very frustrated with the ongoing marketing struggles at One Seventy Two Madison at 172 Madison Ave.
For the curious you can read it about it HERE and HERE.

172 Madison Ave


Image courtesy Tessler Development

[BG918]

Originally Posted by rds70

A new concept review has been submitted to Denver for 899 Broadway - a 16 story, 377 unit apartment building.

I was curious about all the proposals in the Golden Triangle, so I did a search of the Denver records to refresh my memory:

899 Broadway - Concept Review - 16 stories - 377 units
1030 Broadway - Formal Site Development Review - 15 stories - 284 units
1120 Acoma - Formal Site Development Review - 17 stories - 300 units
921 Acoma - Construction - 17 stories - 389 units
1025 Bannock - Formal Site Development Review - 8 stories - 326 units
990 Bannock - Formal Site Development Review - 14 stories - 224 units
970 Cherokee - Concept Review - 17 stories - 324 units
1235 Cherokee - Formal Site Development Review - 17 stories - 248 units
1301 Cherokee - Concept Review - 16 stories - 217 units
1158 Delaware - Concept Review - 12 stories - 168 units
650 West Colfax - Formal Site Development Review - 7 stories - 356 units

Total number of units under construction or review = 3,213

Where do you get your info, is there a city website that publishes this data?

[SirLucasTheGreat]

This picture doesn't do it justice but you all should go check out Mcgregor Square now that the plaza is open.

[BG918]

I was at McGregor Square last night and it’s a really nice urban space. The effect it will have on foot traffic in that part of LoDo will be tremendous once everything is open there, and especially when there are Rockies games like last night.

[TakeFive]

Just because you're my BFF

Originally Posted by laniroj

Thanks for sharing. What is 650 W Colfax? I thought the City had purchased those parcels for expanded courthouse operations or something? Wasn't aware a multifamily deal was making it's way through. Any visuals? Can't seem to find any...at least free stuff.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...le-denver.html

A San Antonio-based developer is proposing a seven-story apartment building at the northern edge of Denver's Golden Triangle neighborhood, according to a concept plan recently filed with the city.

Real estate firm Embrey Partners is currently under contract for the 2.8-acre parcel, according to Jacob Shalley, senior vice president of development at the company. The apartment building would occupy a full city block at the southwest corner of Colfax Avenue and Fox Street, with the exception of 606 W. Colfax Ave., which is home to a Bank of Denver branch.

The developer is currently planning five stories of apartments over two stories of parking, according to the concept plan. The plan also indicates that townhomes would surround the parking on the first and second levels along Galapago Street, 14th Avenue and Fox Street.

Embrey has built (and sold) a number of apartments but mostly in the suburbs - including the Arvada Ridge Apartments recently featured as part of the Arvada Ridge LRT Station TOD. However, Embrey did build and recently sell the Luxe at Mile High, 3200 W Colfax Ave.

Luxe at Mile High
3200 W Colfax Ave








All images courtesy Humphreys and Partners Architects

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

I think rds70 is my favorite member of this forum.

Me too. All rds posts are good posts. I scroll through pages of largely useless brain-wrestling (not that I haven’t been guilty of contributing to that), then out of the blue comes an rds post and my eyes light up. It’s always good useful stuff.

Regarding Golden Triangle development, it’s really starting to frustrate me that it’s all the same height. A good chunk of GT is visible from my west-facing Governor’s Park balcony - including part of that new tower on 9th and Bannock and one of its cranes. It looks like it’s topped out now and there’s not going to be another floor. So now its rooftop lines up perfectly with all its neighbors. At night I just see a vast 16ish-story wall of windows - almost like the whole neighborhood is one massive building.

That’s why I occasionally chime in: “I thought they were rezoning GT! When are they going to finish rezoning GT?!”

Not that I’m not excited for all the increased density. The west side of cap hill has some 30K+ ppsm census tracts. If GT continues to develop at its current pace, there will soon be similar density on the west side of Lincoln. That part of the Broadway/Lincoln corridor could eventually become seriously urban and be deserving of a seriously expensive transit upgrade.

[mhays]

A thought about those courtyards with people gathering...those must be really noisy and echoey.

Where I live even a normal conversation 100 feet away can be disruptive if you're trying to sleep. They must have to police a 10:00 quiet time, and they probably get rule breakers.

Or worse, a barking dog on a balcony.

Thankfully my building is full of people who deal with people like that (barking dogs and loud parties), so I don't have to. But that's probably harder in an apartment.