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  #1501  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 4:03 AM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post

Vornado's Evil Plan to Make a New Hudson Yards around Penn Station






That's kind of how it goes in a nut shell.
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  #1502  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 8:00 AM
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At one time the Hotel Pennsylvania may have been worthy of saving and dramatic renovation and repurposing, but that ship has sailed. Most important thing though is to replace a once grand building with one worthy of being a focal point of the 21 st century New York City skyline. The current incarnation is most definitively NOT it. But in the end, it's Vornado's call... good thing they have a lot of time to reconsider this brutalist/modernist debacle.
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  #1503  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 2:18 PM
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At one time the Hotel Pennsylvania may have been worthy of saving and dramatic renovation and repurposing, but that ship has sailed. Most important thing though is to replace a once grand building with one worthy of being a focal point of the 21 st century New York City skyline. The current incarnation is most definitively NOT it. But in the end, it's Vornado's call... good thing they have a lot of time to reconsider this brutalist/modernist debacle.
Totally agree.. Build us an instant classic tower, not this turd!

Look whats happening with the Grand Hyatt Site.. 175 Park Ave is going to be an instant Classic!

That's what we need here to replace the Hotel Penn and anchor Vornado's stronghold in the Penn Plaza area.. We need something EPIC!!
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  #1504  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 4:53 PM
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Steve Roth is delusional. Nothing will rise in this cesspool for years. This area has enormous potential, but it is currently the armpit of Manhattan.

Tenants will go to Midtown East and the HY in the near term.



Last edited by JMKeynes; Mar 2, 2021 at 5:34 PM.
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  #1505  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 5:13 PM
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[QUOTE=JMKeynes;9205011]Steve Roth is delusional. Nothing will rise in this cesspool for years. This area has enormous potential, but it is currently the armpit of Manhattan.

Interesting Comment
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  #1506  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
Steve Roth is delusional. Nothing will rise in this cesspool for years. This area has enormous potential, but it is currently the armpit of Manhattan.
Interesting Comment
If not, a foolish one. If you can build an instant city in New York (Hudson Yards) in a vast wasteland of parking lots, homeless camps, addicts, and all of the other undesirable things dumped over there - with no transit to speak of - surely you can build on top of the busiest transit hub in the country, with it’s large number of subway and commuter lines.

Say what you want aboutvthis area, it has been one of Manhattan’s busiest areas for pedestrian and retail activity. That’s why it’s always crowded. Even Macy’s has jumped on the bandwagon.
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  #1507  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 6:00 PM
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That's not accurate. Because the HY was a vast wasteland of lots, it was a blank canvas that was created instantaneously in a vacuum. Simultaneously, parks were built, super high-end shops were built, etc. An isolated oasis of luxury arose spontaneously.

The Penn area, by contrast, is a vast existing, filthy cancer that needs to be rebuilt one building at a time. It has huge potential. 15 years ago, the stretch of 42nd Street between 7th and Lex was utterly disgusting, and towers like 1 Vandy and 175 Park would not have been viable.

A super tower on the Hotel Penn site will be viable in the future, but that area needs to be cleaned up first, just like 42nd St was. The chemo should start with the hideous block to the north of the Hotel Penn.

Last edited by JMKeynes; Mar 2, 2021 at 6:24 PM.
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  #1508  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 7:34 PM
mschall50 mschall50 is offline
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Honestly I can't believe this isn't landmarked. This building. In this location. By this architect.

This is a block from the old Penn Station and was designed by William Symmes Richardson of McKim Mead & White.

Looking at 111W57th, 9 Dekalb, and Hearst Tower, I'm disappointed to see what could have been an incredible old-meets-new proposal get crushed for another architecturally insignificant massing.
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  #1509  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 7:45 PM
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at least this one is first go, i'm more concerned about the additional phase one demo of other buildings that won't go back up until later in phase two.

who knows if that follows any true timeline or if it will be empty pits for a decade.
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  #1510  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2021, 8:50 PM
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If not, a foolish one. If you can build an instant city in New York (Hudson Yards) in a vast wasteland of parking lots, homeless camps, addicts, and all of the other undesirable things dumped over there - with no transit to speak of - surely you can build on top of the busiest transit hub in the country, with it’s large number of subway and commuter lines.

Say what you want aboutvthis area, it has been one of Manhattan’s busiest areas for pedestrian and retail activity. That’s why it’s always crowded. Even Macy’s has jumped on the bandwagon.

Agree with NYguy.. this area might be dumpy, but it is prime, very busy with pedestrian and retail activity and will only get better once investments and build outs occur.

It's the prefect area location wise, above the busiest train station in the country.. which will be expanding greatly with Moynihan Station done and Empire Station on the way.

I question the total amount of office space that will be build out here in the next decade and a half, but the area will be a grand slam once completed.

I'd also want 15 Penn Plaza to be the grandest of towers in the City, not the turd that is planned.
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  #1511  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 1:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mschall50 View Post
Honestly I can't believe this isn't landmarked. This building. In this location. By this architect.

This is a block from the old Penn Station and was designed by William Symmes Richardson of McKim Mead & White.

Looking at 111W57th, 9 Dekalb, and Hearst Tower, I'm disappointed to see what could have been an incredible old-meets-new proposal get crushed for another architecturally insignificant massing.
The massing was going to be a bulky tower, landmarking or not. But the building has been altered enough that it isn't landmark worthy. Just being old doesn't make something landmark worthy, it has to be of some significance.






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Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
That's not accurate. Because the HY was a vast wasteland of lots, it was a blank canvas that was created instantaneously in a vacuum. Simultaneously, parks were built, super high-end shops were built, etc. An isolated oasis of luxury arose spontaneously.

Those high end shops, and parks (which are still being built) came later. There was one lone tower built in the Hudson Yards, and the rest followed because OBVIOUSLY there was a plan to develop the area - a plan by the way that isn't even half complete. There are still areas of open lots and homeless encampments. You seem to think that the 15 Penn site exists in a vacuum. It does not. That's why buildings like 1 and 2 Penn exists. Why Vornado has been steady with it's leasing of other surroundings in the area.




Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyNYC View Post
Agree with NYguy.. this area might be dumpy, but it is prime, very busy with pedestrian and retail activity and will only get better once investments and build outs occur.

It's the prefect area location wise, above the busiest train station in the country.. which will be expanding greatly with Moynihan Station done and Empire Station on the way.

I question the total amount of office space that will be build out here in the next decade and a half, but the area will be a grand slam once completed.

I'd also want 15 Penn Plaza to be the grandest of towers in the City, not the turd that is planned.

To the tenants that occupy this tower, whatever design it may be, I'm sure it will be one of the best designed places to work (and commute).

But this area is beyond PRIME, it's been a great location for retail for that very reason.




https://34thstreet.org/neighborhood



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  #1512  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 2:24 PM
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Herald Square is nice, but a mere one block over to 7th is disgusting.

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  #1513  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 3:35 PM
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On the bright side, it might be cheaper to build a supertall in or near a "disgusting" neighborhood than in an upscale one.
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  #1514  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 4:10 PM
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On the bright side, it might be cheaper to build a supertall in or near a "disgusting" neighborhood than in an upscale one.
Not remotely. The Hotel Penn site will definitely be developed, but it's a matter of when. It's a huge site that can (and will) accommodate an enormous building. Thus, while the area is currently a cesspool, that site is incredibly valuable. Apart from the cost of the site (which Vornado already owns), all other construction costs are the same here, as they would be on the Helmsley Palace site on CPS.
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  #1515  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 5:19 PM
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Herald Square is nice, but a mere one block over to 7th is disgusting.


What’s disgusting about this photo, the Sbarro? I don’t eat there, so I don’t know about that.
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  #1516  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 7:21 PM
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It's full of businesses catering to people who aren't rich, is what I suspect. That and tourists staying in the area.

Gotta get rid of everything that isn't luxury retail or high end dining. That, or endless bank branches and starbucks.

Edit- also, the buildings housing these businesses don't look to be terribly well maintained.
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  #1517  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 7:31 PM
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What’s disgusting about this photo, the Sbarro? I don’t eat there, so I don’t know about that.
Thats what im wondering why are people calling a place dumpy with multiple ethnicities of people and guess what...

This place has more culture and good people then a tourist location like 42nd.

To call this disgusting is disrespectful.

Like others have said if it isn't a strip of Starbucks, banks & Jewelry store & whole foods the area is dumpy right?
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  #1518  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 7:33 PM
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Ground level retail high end and lower end are part of the lifeblood of the city. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean that it’s disgusting. I can tell you that once these are wiped out it will be replaced with a bank branch or Walgreens/Duane Reade. Robertwalpole/Londonlawyer/jmkeynes has a clear M.O. here so I’ve gotten used to ignoring it.
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  #1519  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 7:37 PM
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Ground level retail high end and lower end are part of the lifeblood of the city. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean that it’s disgusting. I can tell you that once these are wiped out it will be replaced with a bank branch or Walgreens/Duane Reade. Robertwalpole/Londonlawyer/jmkeynes has a clear M.O. here so I’ve gotten used to ignoring it.
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  #1520  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2021, 7:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BK1985 View Post
Ground level retail high end and lower end are part of the lifeblood of the city. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean that it’s disgusting. I can tell you that once these are wiped out it will be replaced with a bank branch or Walgreens/Duane Reade. Robertwalpole/Londonlawyer/jmkeynes has a clear M.O. here so I’ve gotten used to ignoring it.
Good one, Comrade Guevara.
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