HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #761  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2020, 10:34 PM
sentinel's Avatar
sentinel sentinel is offline
Plenary pleasures.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCres View Post
When will the designs be released?
Unsure on timetable - my firm responded to the RFQ in July (?...sorry, the months just blend together now...), but were not shortlisted. The three finalists are the last phase, as I recall seeing a larger list somewhere, that was apparently whittled down even further..
__________________
Don't be shy. Step into the light.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #762  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 2:45 AM
gandalf612 gandalf612 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Edgewater, Chicago
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
There's a 950 foot height limit for the site because that's what Related asked for. The whole site is a giant PD negotiated with the city, truly a blank slate from a zoning standpoint. Chicago DPD had some input but they're more concerned about FAR and buildable square footage, not how it's distributed on the site. There's no neighborhood context to fit into, either.

If Related genuinely wanted a supertall they could have gotten one.

Lakeshore East was a similar story, IIRC it had a lower height limit but they got the limit revised so they could build Vista.



Sigh. These are undoubtedly talented firms but isn't it time we got some fresh blood? Gang is the only local one but she doesn't need the exposure that this kind of commission would provide...

https://i.imgur.com/GFksb7o.jpg
This is just a guess but since DPI is state funded that might have to adhere to diversity quotas, so since Gang is headed by a woman they often have an advantage on that front (plus their designs are awesome)

Last edited by Tom In Chicago; Sep 17, 2020 at 4:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #763  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 4:16 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 14,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalf612 View Post
This is just a guess but since DPI is state funded that might have to adhere to diversity quotas, so since Gang is headed by a woman they often have an advantage on that front (plus their designs are awesome)
The other two finalists (Koolhaas and Foster) are white guys, so I'm not sure "diversity" is a factor here.

It's constantly disappointing when we hold ourselves up as an "architecture capital" yet these major competitions in the public sector seem to yield the same crew of globe trotting starchitects every time. We had the same situation in UIC's Performing Arts Center competition, or the O'Hare Terminal21 competition.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #764  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 2:24 PM
RedCorsair87 RedCorsair87 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 466
Who specifically would you like to see then?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #765  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 3:20 PM
sentinel's Avatar
sentinel sentinel is offline
Plenary pleasures.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
The other two finalists (Koolhaas and Foster) are white guys, so I'm not sure "diversity" is a factor here.

It's constantly disappointing when we hold ourselves up as an "architecture capital" yet these major competitions in the public sector seem to yield the same crew of globe trotting starchitects every time. We had the same situation in UIC's Performing Arts Center competition, or the O'Hare Terminal21 competition.
Well, thankfully, all three are quality, visionary architects so I suspect all three designs will be pretty unique and interesting..I do understand what you are saying, but another way to look at it is that perhaps a lot of international 'star'chitects didn't answer the call. And, while there is perception of there being a lot of starchitects throughout the globe, potentially not many have experience with this type of project.

Diversity was not a factor for finalist shortlist, as one of the questions that came up during the RFQ was whether or not MBE or WBE participation would be required, and IIRC the response was no, because this is a State of Illinois/CDB project and not Chicago government project; I do not know what the State's/CDB's requirements for minority participation are (even the City requirements are not TOO stringent in some ways, because a prime consultant man not have MBE/WBE ownership, but their sub-consultants may, so the percentage requirements could still cross the minimum threshold).

The RFQ information, even on DPI's website specifically stated that they want a 'statement' or 'landmark' architectural design for the building (can't remember the exact wording), so even firms like P+W, SOM and other high-profile firms didn't make the final cut (I'm wracking my brain trying to remember where I saw the first round finalists before these final three). Our firm had partnered with a large, high-profile, international firm that is not a Starchitect, but has extensive experience with massive, high-tech laboratory/research centers, and we didn't even make the first round cut, even though a third of their market sector focus is exactly in this same arena.

Perhaps there is no rhyme or reason on who the finalists were, or maybe their presentations were just better than the rest
__________________
Don't be shy. Step into the light.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #766  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 5:28 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 14,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCorsair87 View Post
Who specifically would you like to see then?
Any number of talented local and regional firms. JGMA, Ronan, Wheeler Kearns, Ross Barney all have bold young voices and a successful history of innovative institutional projects. Perhaps some of them did compete for this opportunity. But even these practices are "established".

What I'd love to see is something like NYC's Project Excellence where city staff can help smaller firms navigate the thicket of red tape and bureaucracy. That stuff can take up a whole bunch of time and brain damage, so in Chicago a lot of talented smaller firms stay away. Accurate or not, there's still a reputation that a lot of these jobs are awarded as patronage to firms that are well-connected, not necessarily those who will deliver the best or most creative results. An excellence program sends a strong message that political connections are not required.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #767  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 5:44 PM
r18tdi's Avatar
r18tdi r18tdi is offline
Team Alinghi
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,466
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Any number of talented local and regional firms. JGMA, Ronan, Wheeler Kearns, Ross Barney all have bold young voices and a successful history of innovative institutional projects.
I seem to remember STL doing the conceptual renderings for the DPI (a cube looking thing with a slice taken out of it?), strange they weren't considered either...

If Related is swinging for the fences with some sculptural statement piece, I wouldn't have minded seeing Chicago get its first BIG design. Sure some of their work puts form a bit too far ahead of function, but you could probably say the same about Gang and to a lesser extent Foster.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #768  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 6:22 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 14,469
^ This isn't a Related project. The U of I system is selecting the architect and paying for construction.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #769  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 6:58 PM
r18tdi's Avatar
r18tdi r18tdi is offline
Team Alinghi
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,466
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
^ This isn't a Related project. The U of I system is selecting the architect and paying for construction.
Ohh gotcha.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #770  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 8:41 PM
ChiTownWonder's Avatar
ChiTownWonder ChiTownWonder is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Any number of talented local and regional firms. JGMA, Ronan, Wheeler Kearns, Ross Barney all have bold young voices and a successful history of innovative institutional projects. Perhaps some of them did compete for this opportunity. But even these practices are "established".

What I'd love to see is something like NYC's Project Excellence where city staff can help smaller firms navigate the thicket of red tape and bureaucracy. That stuff can take up a whole bunch of time and brain damage, so in Chicago a lot of talented smaller firms stay away. Accurate or not, there's still a reputation that a lot of these jobs are awarded as patronage to firms that are well-connected, not necessarily those who will deliver the best or most creative results. An excellence program sends a strong message that political connections are not required.
This... To be a leading city in architecture is to not only accept the greats but find the up and comings. Then again UofI might not care about this narrative, and would be up to the city government to push.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #771  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2020, 9:32 PM
Mr Downtown's Avatar
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
Urbane observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,187
For a project like this, though, CDB's scoresheet should award up to 10 points for "able to bring projects in on time and on budget," 8 points for "fully understands design (and maintenance) requirements of multidisciplinary, flexible lab space" and 2 points for "makes cool forms."

That's my unpopular opinion as a taxpayer. Much as I love it, we already have one Thompson Center. (Hey! Maybe that's what should be turned into the DPI!)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #772  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 3:16 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 14,469
^ But clearly that isn't always the case. If "on time and on budget" were so important in these competitions, Calatrava would have never been a finalist for the O'Hare 21 terminal.

To me, it seems like our public officials are letting themselves be dazzled by the fancy presentations these firms put out, likely created with small armies of unpaid labor.

Also, while competitions absolutely should not be purely about "cool form-making", it's clear that U of I wants a flashy, distinctive landmark on an enormous blank slate site. A subtle, elegant work is not what they are looking for. In this case, I agree with them - the site needs a landmark to earn a place in the mental map of Chicagoans, just like Hudson Yards needed Vessel or Lakeshore East needed Aqua.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...

Last edited by ardecila; Sep 18, 2020 at 3:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #773  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2020, 4:02 AM
CrazyCres's Avatar
CrazyCres CrazyCres is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 216
Wells-Wentworth Connector Progressing Rapidly At The 78 In Near South Side



Link: https://chicagoyimby.com/2020/10/wel...orth-side.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #774  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2020, 2:23 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 14,469
Hasn't been a lot of motion in the last 2 weeks... they put the binder course of asphalt down and then kind of halted. The sidewalks are poured and the footings for streetlights are in place. The surface course of asphalt probably won't come until all the heavy equipment is gone from the site, so probably not until next summer. Landscaping will come after that.

At the south end by the S-curve and the new underpasses, they've been pouring retaining walls along the tracks. Train traffic has been entirely routed away from the St Charles Air Line and the river bridge, but the Freeport Sub still has one active track so CN and Amtrak trains can get through. I imagine they will start putting in a shoo fly track on one or both rail lines soon, once the retaining walls are finished and backfilled. Then they can start building the new bridges. They have had temporary Bailey bridges just sitting there for months waiting to be used on the shooflys.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #775  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2020, 12:49 AM
Mr Downtown's Avatar
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
Urbane observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,187
I guess that makes sense—I couldn't figure out what that Bailey Bridge was sitting there for—but why not do the shoofly on solid fill, build the new railroad overpass, and then dig out the new roadway connection to the south?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #776  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2020, 2:44 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 14,469
I think one of the two Bailey bridges may actually be for the Clark St span. They could also be used to construct the Red Line station with active freight or Metra traffic above. I noticed them sinking micropiles near the SCAL/Rock Island diamonds.

I think they will need a Bailey bridge for Wells/Wentworth project at the SCAL crossing (shoofly), but the Freeport sub should be able to have a shoofly on terra firma while they build that underpass.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #777  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2020, 4:19 AM
Mr Downtown's Avatar
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
Urbane observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,187
I don't think CN would store a Bailey bridge for its SCAL reconstruction project in that location. They've been putting in the new spans and then removing the old one next to it as they worked their way west. Michigan is closed through the end of the month.

West of Clark, the St. Charles Air Line has been unused since April: the bridge has been up all this time. Amtrak is now backing Champaign trains south of 21st Street onto NS, then reversing to run east on the Freeport Sub to the lakefront IC line.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #778  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2020, 6:53 PM
maru2501's Avatar
maru2501 maru2501 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: chicago
Posts: 1,646
Rezko Blvd.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #779  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2020, 11:28 PM
KWillChicago's Avatar
KWillChicago KWillChicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,041
Maybe a stupid question. Are these streets going to be drivable while the 78 slowly progresses or is all closed off. During the construction?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #780  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2020, 4:46 AM
Mr Downtown's Avatar
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
Urbane observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,187
Construction will take 30 years or more.

The new roads will open when there's a good reason to have them available. So I expect Wells-Wentworth to be driveable (from at least one end) for construction of DPI. However, there still might be a guard shack at Roosevelt or 17th controlling access—and as noted above, it might not have the final topcoat or pavement markings. But at some point in the next couple of years, it'll start acting like a normal city street.

Too soon to guess when 15th might be built.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:29 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.