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  #141  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiPhi View Post
^^^
BKL does really great simple boxes but I'd want something more than a simple box here. And Pelli has lots of name recognition and his more recent stuff is really not PoMo at all.
The apartment building is designed by BKL. The office buildings are designed by Cesar Pelli, including the main 290 meter building.

Source - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,7108445.story
     
     
  #142  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:22 AM
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Originally Posted by spyguy View Post
Rents would start at $2,000 per month for studios and go to $4,000 per month for two bedrooms, according to Van Schaack.
$2000 for a studio... give me a break. Give me some of whatever they are smoking.
     
     
  #143  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiPhi View Post
^^^
BKL does really great simple boxes but I'd want something more than a simple box here. And Pelli has lots of name recognition and his more recent stuff is really not PoMo at all. Pelli's recent stuff isn't amazing, but the materiality and sizing is as good as BKL, but more interesting in form imo. I'd rate others (Nouvel, Holl etc.) over him, but his stuff is certainly not pedestrian. Plus getting a Pelli design boosts the city's global image.


Seriously?
     
     
  #144  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonMendigo View Post
http://www.suntimes.com/12851981-761...anal-site.html

There are renderings in this article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckman821 View Post
For the lazy:




My reaction: underwhelmed, though I suppose it could be worse.
Thank you, as I was not going to click on a link that ended with anal-site.

Agreed. It just seems awkward but please, please let this come to fruition. I will cry if this gets downgraded.
     
     
  #145  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiPhi View Post
^^^
BKL does really great simple boxes but I'd want something more than a simple box here. And Pelli has lots of name recognition and his more recent stuff is really not PoMo at all.
Aqua and Coast at LSE are proof that you can do a lot with a "simple box." That's more in keeping with Chicago's architectural heritage than Pelli's arbitrary shapes. IMO, Pelli is still a postmodernist; however, his point of reference is now the mid-'90s rather than Art Deco or whatever period he used to allude to. It's all style, no substance. The results are handsome enough. They just don't do anything to move the dialogue forward.
     
     
  #146  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:32 AM
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Didn't notice that domain name, Standpoor. I laughed quite loudly when you pointed it out though.

And Pelli, whether he deserves it or not (I don't think he does - he simply refines and betters the projects of others and then churns them out worldwide) gets a lot of attention from the architectural and cultural establishments worldwide. He has projects underway in some of the fastest growing and biggest cities. He doesn't have nearly as much name recognition in the general public as Gehry, but the Pritzker Pavilion got a lot of attention because it was Frank Gehry. It will boost the city image.
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  #147  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:32 AM
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Just a comment from someone who doesn't know a whole lot about such things...

But the central tower looks to me a lot like Pelli's Abu Dhabi building, The Landmark...

See some shots from Pelli's site

with some of Santiago, Chile's yet-to-be-built Torre Costanera...

Some renderings here

Feel free to pile on...
     
     
  #148  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Chicago_Forever View Post
I was at the meeting from start to the begining of the Q&A.

I didn't hear anything about these being massing models.

I heard the west tower (residential) is designed by BLK/Meggelan which lead me the believe Cesar Pelli is in charge of designing the other two towers.
The west tower is phase one and will include 510 apartments and 200 parking spaces.

Phase two is the 950ft commercial tower, I didn't hear the amount of parking it will include.

Finally, phase 3, the eastern tower will rise to 750ft and also incldude 200 parking spaces, I'm not sure of its use though.

Parking will be underground sort of like a millennium park deck type of thing so there won't be any parking podiums.
Thanks for the clarification. Your explanation makes the most sense. I'm pleased that BKL will bring some variety to the site; three Pelli towers would have been a bit much. That "arcade" over the River Walk looks promising.

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Originally Posted by Chicago_Forever View Post
Even the elevator chatter was pretty hilarious as these two women were discussing how this project will drastically ruin their lives, lol.
I pray that it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc5680 View Post
$2000 for a studio... give me a break. Give me some of whatever they are smoking.
Ha, I was thinking the same thing. I don't know any young professionals who would shell out two grand for a studio in Chicago. This isn't New York or DC: Deals and steals abound in this city.
     
     
  #149  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Uptempo View Post
Just a comment from someone who doesn't know a whole lot about such things...

But the central tower looks to me a lot like Pelli's Abu Dhabi building, The Landmark...

See some shots from Pelli's site

with some of Santiago, Chile's yet-to-be-built Torre Costanera...

Some renderings here

Feel free to pile on...
Well, significant similarities should be expected. I mean, all of Frank Gehry's work has similar themes. And the work you linked is beautiful, so if the Wolf Point towers (at least the 2 tallest) turn out that good, I'd be really happy.
     
     
  #150  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 1:54 AM
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Love the design of the main tower and the apartment. Also, the river walk looks incredible.
     
     
  #151  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld View Post
These are early designs, Cesar Pelli hasn't even designed much yet. Here is an excerpt from the Sun Times article -

I expect the final design to be stunning, but even this, would be great. The front of the main tower reminds me of Devon tower on some level, mixed with that LA proposal. Also, look at this
I'm a little skeptical that these are as early as we think. There's kind of this process the way images and drawings are delivered to the public. Either a very intense conceptual rendering is released and then design is regressive from there OR a very very basic, but well composed massing is released and more detail is revealed then after.

These images look incredibly resolved and practical in nature. Impressively tall, but reserved in their architecture.

With that said, I'm 99% convinced this is the product we are getting. I'm unimpressed.
     
     
  #152  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ChiPhi View Post
And Pelli, whether he deserves it or not (I don't think he does - he simply refines and betters the projects of others and then churns them out worldwide) gets a lot of attention from the architectural and cultural establishments worldwide. He has projects underway in some of the fastest growing and biggest cities. He doesn't have nearly as much name recognition in the general public as Gehry, but the Pritzker Pavilion got a lot of attention because it was Frank Gehry. It will boost the city image.
Pelli gets attention from "cultural establishments" that are too afraid to take risks. His firm's work is respectable, but that's about all you can say.

Safe designs do nothing to "boost a city's image," unless that city's architecture is shit. Clearly, this is not a problem suffered by Chicago. It had been at the vanguard of Modernism for decades, and, with the rise of young luminaries like Jeanne Gang, is poised to retake that position. By contrast, a couple Pelli towers will, at best, solidify Chicago's "prettiness" without doing much else. At worse, they'll be viewed as a missed opportunity for such a prominent location. It'd be like the Columbia Exposition or the Tribune Tower: aesthetically pleasing, but remembered mostly for what wasn't built.
     
     
  #153  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:12 AM
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Wolf Point Renders

Forgive the glare.

















View from Apparel Mart.


Proposed River Point dev.


A few notes to follow...
     
     
  #154  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
I'm a little skeptical that these are as early as we think. There's kind of this process the way images and drawings are delivered to the public. Either a very intense conceptual rendering is released and then design is regressive from there OR a very very basic, but well composed massing is released and more detail is revealed then after.

These images look incredibly resolved and practical in nature. Impressively tall, but reserved in their architecture.

With that said, I'm 99% convinced this is the product we are getting. I'm unimpressed.
After the tribune article we now know that the office buildings are being designed by Cesar Pelli, and the apartment tower is being designed by BKL. Also, the main tower is 950 feet/290 meters
     
     
  #155  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ChiPhi View Post
I will say that even the placement on the siteplan is awkward.
A large part of the placement on the siteplan is because a previously existing agreement/contract from when the two parcels (Wolf's Point/Apparel Center) were separated. This guaranteed some view corridors from the Apparel Center (plot A) through the development on Wolf's Point (plot B)

SSDD
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  #156  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:18 AM
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Originally Posted by markh9 View Post
Forgive the glare.









A few notes to follow...
Wow, love this one.
     
     
  #157  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G View Post
Pelli gets attention from "cultural establishments" that are too afraid to take risks. His firm's work is respectable, but that's about all you can say.

Safe designs do nothing to "boost a city's image," unless that city's architecture is shit. Clearly, this is not a problem suffered by Chicago. It had been at the vanguard of Modernism for decades, and, with the rise of young luminaries like Jeanne Gang, is poised to retake that position. By contrast, a couple Pelli towers will, at best, solidify Chicago's "prettiness" without doing much else. At worse, they'll be viewed as a missed opportunity for such a prominent location. It'd be like the Columbia Exposition or the Tribune Tower: aesthetically pleasing, but remembered mostly for what wasn't built.
I think it is absolutely fair to say that Pelli "plays it safe" but I think the same could (and should) be said of BKL. This really isn't the place to get into such a discussion, but Chicago hasn't been the Vanguard of modern architecture for years and, as I live most of my time outside of Chicago, I will have you know that no one thinks of Chicago when they think of truly cutting edge architecture. For highrises, they think of NY or (more often) certain cities in Asia. And Gang's rise seems more questionable now than it did a few years ago. While Aqua was one of the best towers I have ever seen, people outside of Chicago simply don't talk about it all that much anymore. Moreover, some of her other things lack that ingenious simplicity that made Aqua so special imo. Plus, she really hasn't secured any commissions outside of the midwest either. We'll have to see if she really becomes the next big thing or is just a one trick pony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headcase View Post
A large part of the placement on the siteplan is because a previously existing agreement/contract from when the two parcels (Wolf's Point/Apparel Center) were separated. This guaranteed some view corridors from the Apparel Center (plot A) through the development on Wolf's Point (plot B)

SSDD
Plus we get to keep our view of The Apparel Mart! I wonder if the Sun Times will take down that sign if this gets built and it is obstructed.
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  #158  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
I'm a little skeptical that these are as early as we think. There's kind of this process the way images and drawings are delivered to the public. Either a very intense conceptual rendering is released and then design is regressive from there OR a very very basic, but well composed massing is released and more detail is revealed then after.

These images look incredibly resolved and practical in nature. Impressively tall, but reserved in their architecture.

With that said, I'm 99% convinced this is the product we are getting. I'm unimpressed.
I'm too young to remember what happened with Trump, but weren't there significant changes made to the design because of outcry from Chicago's architecture community? If so, maybe that process can be used as a template for Wolf Point.
     
     
  #159  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:24 AM
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The Western tower is the most fleshed out, the other two show the ideas that helped shape the form for the site, but are not complete.

All three buildings should:

Meet the ground lightly
--Small lobby levels with transparent glass.
--Landscaping brought up as close as possible to the lobby walls.
--Be smaller that the tower above.

Be shaped to allow for view corridors from each other, as well as from the Apparel Mart.
Be cantilevered outside of the footprint for the bases.
Not be reflective, highly transparent glass w/color.
Will include stone elements in some parts of the facade (not really clear to how this will be implemented, not really show in the slides.)

SSDD
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  #160  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld View Post
Wow, love this one.
Agreed! I love that they have the river point rendering on there too. I don't know what people are really expecting, but I think these are great additions to Chicago's skyline.
     
     
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