CHICAGO | Da Bears | Now these shitheads wanna drive their clown car over to Indiana?

[2PRUROCKS!]

I don't get why so many are more upset with the Bears going to Hammond than the AH? I wanted the Bears to stay in Chicago but there never seemed to be any real viable plan to make that happen. Both Hammond and AH are Chicago suburbs well within the metropolitan area of Chicago and Hammond is much closer to the actual city boundaries than AH and closer to downtown as well. Hammond seems much more connected to the city with the industry, lakefront, and downtown skyline all visible from the location the Bears apparently selected. None of that is true of the AH site. AH just seems like a non-descript Chicago suburb with a nicer than average downtown but it seems so far away from the actual city unlike Hammond. I don't know if it is just red state blue state stuff that has people so upset but to me Hammond seems and feels more connected to Chicago than AH.

For full disclosure I live slightly closer to AH than Hammond so it would probably be easier for me to get to AH than Hammond for games but I seldom go to games and mostly consume the Bears on television. For me viewing from my TV, a stadium in Hammond will probably offer a better visual product than one in AH.

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by 2PRUROCKS!

I don't get why so many are more upset with the Bears going to Hammond than the AH? I wanted the Bears to stay in Chicago but there never seemed to be any real viable plan to make that happen. Both Hammond and AH are Chicago suburbs well within the metropolitan area of Chicago and Hammond is much closer to the actual city boundaries than AH and closer to downtown as well. Hammond seems much more connected to the city with the industry, lakefront, and downtown skyline all visible from the location the Bears apparently selected. None of that is true of the AH site. AH just seems like a non-descript Chicago suburb with a nicer than average downtown but it seems so far away from the actual city unlike Hammond. I don't know if it is just red state blue state stuff that has people so upset but to me Hammond seems and feels more connected to Chicago than AH.

For full disclosure I live slightly closer to AH than Hammond so it would probably be easier for me to get to AH than Hammond for games but I seldom go to games and mostly consume the Bears on television. For me viewing from my TV, a stadium in Hammond will probably offer a better visual product than one in AH.

Yes, the psychological dynamic is the push factor that is based more on identity lines and socioeconomic narratives, rather than geographic realities.

AH could be replaced with Naperville, Elmhurst, Northbrook, or Lake Zurich, and they would all be seen as essentially interchangeable with 90% of other suburbs within the metro (especially the suburban areas). The suburbs are arguably one barely indistinguishable crescent that surrounds the city up until the Indiana border.

I think if we keep it real, NW Indiana is seen by many from within the metro and outside as being very distinct from the rest. Some people (wrongly) would barely consider it a part of the metro. Partially because it is based in Indiana, partially because it is seen as middle-lower class (if not poverty-stricken in certain parts), and partially because it is still seen as a moribund post-industrial, environmentally contaminated region. That stubborn narrative remains even with the thousands fleeing to NW Indiana for lower house prices in stable parts of the region.

Arlington, Foxboro, Santa Clara, or even East Rutherford, it is not. All those are either middle-upper class and/or viewed as part of the thicket of a contiguous suburban area (NE is a bit of an odd case given its identity as a truly regional team). I'd bet double or nothing that over 80% of the Bears season ticket fanbase comes from the northside and N/S/W/SW suburbs. Do the Google traffic, and it's at least 45 minutes during smooth traffic from those locations, and upwards of an 1h30m-2hours, or more, for Monday or Thursday night games.

I foresee the Bears will have many depressingly empty stadiums, regardless of how nice the new stadium is, during lean years. People will not want to drive to Indiana to hang out in a relatively unattractive area, with few amenities other than a few Hampton Hotels and a few Red Rocket Burger restaurants. Even during the worst year, the Bears could still count on 45,000 in SF during losing seasons. In northwest Indiana? I think they'll be lucky to get 15,000.

That's the Bears' choice if they make it, and the Indiana handout would be tough to forgo. I still think it would be pound-wise penny-foolish if they take into account the logistics and brand optics for the brand in the long-term.

[twister244]

I see it more as a completely stupid decision. The Bears may think they are going to finally force the hand of BJ/Pritzker to strike some generous deal to keep the Bears in Chicago. They seems to be operating under the assumption that the politics demand the Bears stay at all costs.

This a completely stupid strategy for a team that hasn't won a Super Bowl since I was conceived...... And it may end up blowing up in their faces. The risk they have right now is BJ/Pritzker give them one final "Fuck You", and then the Bears will be stuck with actually having to move the team to Hammond where they will, no doubt, devalue the franchise in the process.

Less people are going to travel to a game in Hammond than in AH. As much as we can shit on the suburbs, at least AH has nearby downtown AH, other suburbs with suburban shit that suburban people like to do. Hammond has none of that, and it's a part of the metro nobody wants to go to.

The Bears think they are playing 3D chess when they are just shooting themselves in the foot.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by 2PRUROCKS!

I don't get why so many are more upset with the Bears going to Hammond than the AH?

Because this moves makes it crystal fucking clear beyond all shadows of any doubts that the McFucknugget family does not give the single slightest shit about anything in this entire cosmos other than finding a group of stupid and gullible taxpayers, any groupd of stupid and gullible taxpayers, to bend over and ass rape.

Fuck that and fuck the McFucknugget family.

The good news here is that I can finally be done giving the single slightest shit about this sorry-ass sad sack of shit NFL ownership family. The gullible idiots of Indiana can have 'em. Good luck with that.




To the McCaskey family, Fuck you.

Fuck all of you.

You greedy little entiled assholes done fucked up royally.

I'm out.

Signed,
A 4th generation former Bears fan (and I'm taking my would-be 5th Gen kids with me)


P.S. Grandpa must be so proud of you guys right now.

[Chi-Sky21]

I will NEVER go see the Bears in Indiana. I highly doubt people will go see concerts there like they would if they were in AH also. That is why i believe this is all still to force Illinois to finalize their deal. I think they will. If it still is not enough for the Bears....ADIOS. Have fun getting people there when the team is no good somewhere down the line.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Brandon Johnson has just totally cocked this up, fumble after fumble.

The Bears one and only plan to build in the city (north of McCormick) would have required massive taxpayer funding for everything around the stadium/parks and infrastructure, so it was obviously not gonna satisfy Pritzker's red line of no direct taxpayer funds. Rather than work with that constraint, though and find a better/more affordable site in city limits, Johnson just kept hammering the state to find more money in a vain effort to build that pipe dream plan. As if Springfield has ~endless resources~.

Seriously, Michael Reese was promising and needed more time and effort to develop a workable plan... but it's not the only site in the city. There's big parking lots around Sox Field that could be developed, there's Fisk Power Station which could be an awesome riverfront stadium with industrial grit incorporated, there's the 29th/Damen silos, etc.

^he gets it

[HomrQT]

I just realized Arlington Heights is 26 miles away from the city and Hammond is 29 miles.

[k1052]

So tired of this saga that I'm about ready to support a subsidy for a new White Sox field out of sheer spite.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by HomrQT

I just realized Arlington Heights is 26 miles away from the city and Hammond is 29 miles.

From State/Madison as the crow flies:

Arlington Park site - 25 miles

Wolf Lake site - 16 miles

[Busy Bee]

*cough* Rosemont - 14 miles *cough*

[Bonsai Tree]

^^Put the Bears stadium in the mob town??? No thank you

[Busy Bee]

Mob heritage or not, I stand by it being an excellent location if a downtown stadium is not in the cards. Comparably centrally located in the metro as Soldier, check. Multiple transit options, check. Easy highway access, check. Space for tailgate culture outlots if cleverly created, check. Pre-existing entertainment, retail and hospitality infrastructure that can be built upon and potential for a next level multi-use attraction, check. A horrid piecemeal landscape begging for a multi-billion dollar clean slate redevelopment, check.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Mob heritage or not, I stand by it being an excellent location if a downtown stadium is not in the cards. Comparably centrally located in the metro as Soldier, check. Multiple transit options, check. Easy highway access, check. Space for tailgate culture outlots if cleverly created, check. Pre-existing entertainment, retail and hospitality infrastructure that can be built upon and potential for a next level multi-use attraction, check. A horrid piecemeal landscape begging for a multi-billion dollar clean slate redevelopment, check.

Too bad the Bears don't have the same mindset......

[Randomguy34]

The South Shore Line made a brief announcement saying they're interested in exploring how to improve transit access to the proposed Bears site: https://mysouthshoreline.com/south-shore...s-advancement-of-hammond-stadium-option/

[twister244]

Here's another thing..... I'm also not totally sold on the idea that the stadium will create a bastion of economic flourishing in Hammond either. Not that I wish ill will on NW Indiana, but sports stadiums by themselves don't create permanent economic activity around them - Proper planning and urban design do.

Wrigleyville works so well because it has a dense urban environment around it that people naturally want to live in. And what's interesting is the sorts of things people would automatically assume would thrive as a result Wrigley Field are actually struggling and closing down there. I am seeing headlines about Draft Kings rolling back their sportsbook stuff..... Lucky Strike is closing down there. Remaining hotels and restaurants flourish because it's a cool neighborhood that just happens to have Wrigley Field - Not the other way around.

So sure, there will be some economic benefit.... But people that do go to games there will want to get the fuck out as soon as the game is done. Nobody is going to want to hang out in Hammond before or after a game.

[2PRUROCKS!]

As a thought experiment let's say the Bears selected the South Works area to build a stadium. How would folks feel about it? It would be within the Chicago city limits and sate of IL but all the same drawbacks that folks have expressed about Hammond are the same if not worse (far away and difficult to get to for majority of wealthy fan base in north, NW, and western suburbs or portions of the city, former industrial site with with possible environmental remediation issues, few attractions or desirable developments nearby, poor transit access). If folks here are honest I bet those who are so outraged by the Hammond site would be ok with a South Works site. I think what really bothers most people is the phycological factor of the stadium being outside of Chicago and then outside of the State. I get it... I want the Bears to stay in Chicago but I don't really care about the state lines. As long as they are in the metropolitan area its seems about the same to me. I actually like the Hammond option better than AH. I go to AH weekly and drive past the old racetrack area. That entire area is just a bland suburb that has no visual connection to the city. The Hammond site is directly on the city's border with views of the Lake and skyline and a weird combination of postindustrial mystique and natural beauty with Wolf Lake and other natural areas nearby. I just think the Hammond site has more potential to still intergrate with the city than AH.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by twister244

Too bad the Bears don't have the same mindset......

If he is talking about the Hammond site, apparently the Bears management DO agree. I think the fans will go see the Bears at that site. The people on this site may have wanted a downtown stadium, but I think many if not most Bear attendees live in the suburbs and have to drive and will not mind going to Indiana, and may actually prefer to dealing with city traffic and downtown congestion and other issues...But it is surprising that Arlington Heights did not have a stronger proposal...since Soldier Field is no longer an historic landmark, I wonder if it can be lightly renovated and a dome added to get events like the NCAA Final Four; I believe it's too small for the Superbowl?

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by twister244

Here's another thing..... I'm also not totally sold on the idea that the stadium will create a bastion of economic flourishing in Hammond either. Not that I wish ill will on NW Indiana, but sports stadiums by themselves don't create permanent economic activity around them - Proper planning and urban design do.

Wrigleyville works so well because it has a dense urban environment around it that people naturally want to live in. And what's interesting is the sorts of things people would automatically assume would thrive as a result Wrigley Field are actually struggling and closing down there. I am seeing headlines about Draft Kings rolling back their sportsbook stuff..... Lucky Strike is closing down there. Remaining hotels and restaurants flourish because it's a cool neighborhood that just happens to have Wrigley Field - Not the other way around.

So sure, there will be some economic benefit.... But people that do go to games there will want to get the fuck out as soon as the game is done. Nobody is going to want to hang out in Hammond before or after a game.

What would be amazing if the City and state governments in Illinois actually worked together to formalize a new economic zone or assign a new TIF fund just across the border, in Illinois, but close enough to any new stadium in Hammond, that would keep a lot of any potential discretionary income in Illinois; a nice way to circumvent any transgressive play by the Bears and Indiana...and let's be absolutely clear about this: Indiana and its current governor will do anything in their power just to spite Illinois and Chicago...even if it means using their own taxpayer money to fund a new stadium. They will literally cut their own collective noses to split their face in order to take breadcrumbs away from Chicago.

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by 2PRUROCKS!

As a thought experiment let's say the Bears selected the South Works area to build a stadium. How would folks feel about it? It would be within the Chicago city limits and sate of IL but all the same drawbacks that folks have expressed about Hammond are the same if not worse (far away and difficult to get to for majority of wealthy fan base in north, NW, and western suburbs or portions of the city, former industrial site with with possible environmental remediation issues, few attractions or desirable developments nearby, poor transit access).

This isn't the "gotcha" that you think. The South Works site was floated as a potential site. It was roundly dismissed for the exact reasons that you mention people are dismissing Hammond.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by 2PRUROCKS!

As a thought experiment let's say the Bears selected the South Works area to build a stadium. How would folks feel about it? It would be within the Chicago city limits and sate of IL but all the same drawbacks that folks have expressed about Hammond are the same if not worse (far away and difficult to get to for majority of wealthy fan base in north, NW, and western suburbs or portions of the city, former industrial site with with possible environmental remediation issues, few attractions or desirable developments nearby, poor transit access). If folks here are honest I bet those who are so outraged by the Hammond site would be ok with a South Works site. I think what really bothers most people is the phycological factor of the stadium being outside of Chicago and then outside of the State. I get it... I want the Bears to stay in Chicago but I don't really care about the state lines. As long as they are in the metropolitan area its seems about the same to me. I actually like the Hammond option better than AH. I go to AH weekly and drive past the old racetrack area. That entire area is just a bland suburb that has no visual connection to the city. The Hammond site is directly on the city's border with views of the Lake and skyline and a weird combination of postindustrial mystique and natural beauty with Wolf Lake and other natural areas nearby. I just think the Hammond site has more potential to still intergrate with the city than AH.

As a resident close to the South Works site, I think South works would be completely impractical for a stadium. I’ve thought so since the idea was proposed. Very difficult intersections and no direct interstate access, and neighbors wouldn’t be too pleased about impaired drivers from events speeding through residential areas


That said, Arlington Heights is impractical and immensely expensive with no direct interstate access.

Hammond has the Skyway at least? It needs a lot of money and I’m skeptical about the year round entertainment factor, but if Indiana wants to pay, then they are welcome to try.