[Saint John] Port Development

[MonctonRad]

He may be referring to the fact that there is only a single rail line serving Halifax. Saint John has options.

I recall a few years ago a rail bridge just south of Truro failed, and the CNR had to be closed for repair for some time. One single rail bridge crippled the port of Halifax.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I wouldn't mind seeing the Digby ferry come back to Long Wharf like it was a long time ago, although I doubt anyone has the stomach for the cost of the infrastructure upgrades required. Would be cool to see the passengers come and go right from the core of SJ, and have pedestrian access for residents of the Annapolis Valley to pop into Uptown for the day or for events in the city. Probably just as good - or better - for the volume of truck traffic on the ferry too, rather than driving through Lower West.

It's a tight fit in there for a ferry with traffic at the port, cruise ships, and some fishing. Adding an 800-foot-long jetty might be impossible. Would the ferry need a pilot boat to get in and out of Long Wharf?

It money was no object, the old Lantic site would make a better ferry location (from a layman's perspective). About 400K sf vs the current ferry terminal's 350K sf... without intruding on Lower Cove terminal. Not quite as ideal for trucks, but it's like 15 tractor trailers per trip, and most of the year is just one in each direction daily. I think Broad/Water could handle that much.

[cdnguys]

Port of Halifax Q1 TEU’s is down -(16.9%) YOR

[bingun]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Port of Halifax Q1 TEU’s is down -(16.9%) YOR

That's got to sting. As much as I am happy to see PSJ succeed, I don't want it to be purely at Halifax's expense. Was this expected, or has the conflict with Iran made things worse?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I wouldn't mind seeing the Digby ferry come back to Long Wharf like it was a long time ago, although I doubt anyone has the stomach for the cost of the infrastructure upgrades required. Would be cool to see the passengers come and go right from the core of SJ, and have pedestrian access for residents of the Annapolis Valley to pop into Uptown for the day or for events in the city. Probably just as good - or better - for the volume of truck traffic on the ferry too, rather than driving through Lower West.

Wouldn’t it be a lot cheaper to just invest in a second, smaller scale ferry terminal Uptown for cross harbour ferry that would serve pedestrians, bicyclists, scooters, etc?

It would be cool to hop on a second ferry that takes you to Uptown Saint John right after you arrive at the West Side Docks on the Fundy Rose. There’s gotta be quite a few options to enhance/modify the existing West Side Ferry Terminal to accommodate a cross harbour ferry in addition to the Fundy Rose.

It’s been mentioned before that Riverview Drive might be the best place to have a ferry run between the West Side and Fundy Quay, and that might very well be the case. Ideally, we’d get a ferry that crossed the Harbour both under the bridge and across the harbour, like Saint John once had. I understand Port operations reign supreme, but there’s no way a single ferry running between the West Side and Uptown should hinder port operations and logistics… if it’s planned properly.

How great would it be to see something like this again in Saint John (minus the cars)

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Wouldn’t it be a lot cheaper to just invest in a second, smaller scale ferry terminal Uptown for cross harbour ferry that would serve pedestrians, bicyclists, scooters, etc?

It would be cool to hop on a second ferry that takes you to Uptown Saint John right after you arrive at the West Side Docks on the Fundy Rose. There’s gotta be quite a few options to enhance/modify the existing West Side Ferry Terminal to accommodate a cross harbour ferry in addition to the Fundy Rose.

It’s been mentioned before that Riverview Drive might be the best place to have a ferry run between the West Side and Fundy Quay, and that might very well be the case. Ideally, we’d get a ferry that crossed the Harbour both under the bridge and across the harbour, like Saint John once had. I understand Port operations reign supreme, but there’s no way a single ferry running between the West Side and Uptown should hinder port operations and logistics… if it’s planned property.

How great would it be to see something like this again in Saint John (minus the cars)

About 20 to 25 years ago there was talk of a large scale high rise housing development at the Ft Dufferin site on west side near Bayshore Beach. It had renderings, but I can’t find them. There was a proposal for a water taxi from site to uptown

[cdnguys]

https://youtu.be/r5F5eiuSmDg?si=bJqdxiZK5YLw-BK7

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

That's got to sting. As much as I am happy to see PSJ succeed, I don't want it to be purely at Halifax's expense. Was this expected, or has the conflict with Iran made things worse?

If Carney even comes close to delivering on his big promises, both Port Saint John and the Port of Halifax will be well on their way to becoming million + TEU container ports. The Port of Halifax has pretty big expansion plans that have been made public for like half a year already, while Port Saint John hasn’t released any concrete expansion plans beyond the now completed West Side Modernization Project.

We still haven’t even seen the Port update their land usage plan yet… but I expect we will see them update that soon, especially given the change in focus from the Trudeau government to the Carney government.

The Port’s biggest advocates should be the premier, NB MPs, and of course the port’s leadership and its partners (both local and global partners). For the most part, the aforementioned have been doing a good job and there’s been a tremendous amount of growth and development to report on involving Port Saint John over the last few years, and that momentum seems to be sustainable.

Nonetheless, I feel like Premier Holt has still not quite risen to the moment with regards to potential for Port Saint John. This “global rupture” has presented a unique, historical opportunity to secure investment from the federal government directly into port expansion for PSJ, but so far, there’s no concrete plans for expansion being pushed for. Premier Holt’s mentioned port expansion only a few times, but never anything specific, and usually in the same sentence as mentioning the much smaller Port of Belledune. I don’t think Tim Houston is mentioning the Port of Sydney every time he mentions port expansion for the Port of Halifax. ������

The main thing Holt seems to be focussed on getting for Port Saint John from the feds is funding for a fix to Simms Corner… which just doesn’t match up with the big picture projects that PM Carney has been calling for, for more than a year now. It really seems like Holt’s PC counterpart in Nova Scotia has risen to the occasion a lot more and presented the PM with really big picture projects for the province of Nova Scotia and wider region of Atlantic Canada.

Now I don’t want to be too hard on the premier as I voted for her and still feel like she’s, by far, the best person for the job given the options we were presented with, and I certainly want her and the province to succeed. While I don’t know what she’s been advocating for in terms of port expansion behind closed doors, or other “big picture” projects of national interest for NB, I do feel like she should be pushing for far bigger, far more concrete ideas to secure federal investments in the economy of New Brunswick. So far, in regards to Port Saint John, I’d say I’m most impressed with Holt working out the “deal” with Doug Ford that made Port Saint John, “Ontario’s Port”, though, I’m not sure how “official” that designation is.

One million TEUs isn’t good enough… the goal should be for Port Saint John to one day be a multi million TEU port, and for a much expanded Port Saint John to one day be surrounded by corporate partners with global reach investing many billions into lucrative ventures with Port Saint John’s strategic location at the centre of their business model.

Finally, Susan Holt will soon be the keynote speaker at Port Saint John’s upcoming Port Days Conference… I hope she has some big, concrete, expansion plans for Port Saint John up her sleeve that she’s been holding off on announcing.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by bingun

That's got to sting. As much as I am happy to see PSJ succeed, I don't want it to be purely at Halifax's expense. Was this expected, or has the conflict with Iran made things worse?

At 17% I don’t think it would be any single reason. If I had to guess, we know new alliances are sending more containers to Saint John; lines may be sending their marginal cargo to other ports like Saint John or Montreal; and probably weak conditions due to world events. Also I seem to think there were weather related skipped stops in Halifax - but could be totally wrong on that one. We won’t know if it’s a true decline until we see Q2. Oh just remembered, maybe more exports are sent to Saint John from Ontario with the new relationship that was announced - exports was Halifax’s biggest hit, down 22.8%

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

If Carney even comes close to delivering on his big promises, both Port Saint John and the Port of Halifax will be well on their way to becoming million + TEU container ports. The Port of Halifax has pretty big expansion plans that have been made public for like half a year already, while Port Saint John hasn’t released any concrete expansion plans beyond the now completed West Side Modernization Project.

We still haven’t even seen the Port update their land usage plan yet… but I expect we will see them update that soon, especially given the change in focus from the Trudeau government to the Carney government.

The Port’s biggest advocates should be the premier, NB MPs, and of course the port’s leadership and its partners (both local and global partners). For the most part, the aforementioned have been doing a good job and there’s been a tremendous amount of growth and development to report on involving Port Saint John over the last few years, and that momentum seems to be sustainable.

Nonetheless, I feel like Premier Holt has still not quite risen to the moment with regards to potential for Port Saint John. This “global rupture” has presented a unique, historical opportunity to secure investment from the federal government directly into port expansion for PSJ, but so far, there’s no concrete plans for expansion being pushed for. Premier Holt’s mentioned port expansion only a few times, but never anything specific, and usually in the same sentence as mentioning the much smaller Port of Belledune. I don’t think Tim Houston is mentioning the Port of Sydney every time he mentions port expansion for the Port of Halifax. ������

The main thing Holt seems to be focussed on getting for Port Saint John from the feds is funding for a fix to Simms Corner… which just doesn’t match up with the big picture projects that PM Carney has been calling for, for more than a year now. It really seems like Holt’s PC counterpart in Nova Scotia has risen to the occasion a lot more and presented the PM with really big picture projects for the province of Nova Scotia and wider region of Atlantic Canada.

Now I don’t want to be too hard on the premier as I voted for her and still feel like she’s, by far, the best person for the job given the options we were presented with, and I certainly want her and the province to succeed. While I don’t know what she’s been advocating for in terms of port expansion behind closed doors, or other “big picture” projects of national interest for NB, I do feel like she should be pushing for far bigger, far more concrete ideas to secure federal investments in the economy of New Brunswick. So far, in regards to Port Saint John, I’d say I’m most impressed with Holt working out the “deal” with Doug Ford that made Port Saint John, “Ontario’s Port”, though, I’m not sure how “official” that designation is.

One million TEUs isn’t good enough… the goal should be for Port Saint John to one day be a multi million TEU port, and for a much expanded Port Saint John to one day be surrounded by corporate partners with global reach investing many billions into lucrative ventures with Port Saint John’s strategic location at the centre of their business model.

Finally, Susan Holt will soon be the keynote speaker at Port Saint John’s upcoming Port Days Conference… I hope she has some big, concrete, expansion plans for Port Saint John up her sleeve that she’s been holding off on announcing.

Unless there is a significant increase in exports or a structural shift in trade flows, I think the Port of Halifax is facing an uphill battle because it’s already operating in a relatively mature and well served market - most of the major transatlantic line services already call at Halifax … meaning there is limited scope to attract entirely “new” direct services from Europe under the current network structure. Competition is less about adding new shipping lines and more about competing for volume within existing alliances and schedules. While Halifax does benefit from strong fundamentals like deep water access, an efficient rail connection and its role as a gateway to central North America … growth increasingly depends on capturing additional cargo share from rival east coast ports or increasing overall North Atlantic trade volumes rather than simply expanding the number of service options. As a result any meaningful expansion in throughput is likely to come from broader macroeconomic drivers, supply chain rerouting, or major new industrial/export growth in Canada, rather than from incremental gains in liner service frequency alone.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

• Video Link

At least it won’t be during the peak morning rush hour, especially with the upcoming lane closures involving the bridge announced.

Will be interesting to see what the province’s “big fix” for Simms Corner is, and how it will facilitate both the flow in and out of the port and surrounding industry, as well as improve the flow of traffic for the residents of the Port City.

I’ve always figured the best way to really fix Simms Corner would involve the construction of a third, much larger bridge over the St. John River.

Originally Posted by cdnguys

About 20 to 25 years ago there was talk of a large scale high rise housing development at the Ft Dufferin site on west side near Bayshore Beach. It had renderings, but I can’t find them. There was a proposal for a water taxi from site to uptown

Helladog posted about the Fort Dufferin renderings a while back, and DarkHarbour found them in some old council packages. I’ll have a look for them later and post in another thread. Sure would have been a positive development to see go up next to the West Side Docks. That property is still zoned for high rise residential too!

Maybe the guys at DP World and Port Saint John could convince some property developers in Dubai and elsewhere to get behind an even bigger proposal for the Fort Dufferin property next to Canada’s fastest growing container port.

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

About 20 to 25 years ago there was talk of a large scale high rise housing development at the Ft Dufferin site on west side near Bayshore Beach. It had renderings, but I can’t find them. There was a proposal for a water taxi from site to uptown

I remember! The renderings exist somewhere! Would have been a great development. That was during the pipeline/Lepreau 2.0/LNG export conversion craze. Just think of how different things would be if all that infrastructure was built. I know this isn’t a political thread, but wow… what a missed opportunity.

[J81]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

He may be referring to the fact that there is only a single rail line serving Halifax. Saint John has options.

I recall a few years ago a rail bridge just south of Truro failed, and the CNR had to be closed for repair for some time. One single rail bridge crippled the port of Halifax.

Yes I remember that culvert failing. I think the line was closed for 7 days or so. Via rail was turning the Ocean at Moncton for a couple trips.

This is a rare instance though and the same thing could happen to SJ. If a small bridge or a culvert washed out on the NBSR line to McAdam or on the CP line through Maine, the rail traffic isnt going to flow immediately onto the CNR. This is a misconception I think exists here.

Of course if a major disruption happened that would close the line for an extended period of time ( weeks,months ) then you would see traffic flow onto the CNR but the likelyhood of that happening is near zero.

There are zero constraints in the everyday operation though and thats what matters.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by J81

Yes I remember that culvert failing. I think the line was closed for 7 days or so. Via rail was turning the Ocean at Moncton for a couple trips.

This is a rare instance though and the same thing could happen to SJ. If a small bridge or a culvert washed out on the NBSR line to McAdam or on the CP line through Maine, the rail traffic isnt going to flow immediately onto the CNR. This is a misconception I think exists here.

Of course if a major disruption happened that would close the line for an extended period of time ( weeks,months ) then you would see traffic flow onto the CNR but the likelyhood of that happening is near zero.

There are zero constraints in the everyday operation though and thats what matters.

I agree with you on the disruption issue, I think the major advantage that having multiple rail lines to the Port provides is competition and options for shipping. The ability to get goods to market faster is something SJ has been excelling at lately.

[cdnguys]

The big risk for port of Halifax is the Chignecto Isthmus being compromised with a freak storm, but I believe there is a $650,000,000 remedy coming for that.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

The big risk for port of Halifax is the Chignecto Isthmus being compromised with a freak storm, but I believe there is a $650,000,000 remedy coming for that.

Yeah, for which NB is paying a significant amount. Never understood the logic of that. NS? Sure, they don't want to be cut off from the ROC . Feds? sure part of their mandate to mantain interprovincial transport links .....but NB? why should we be singled out over any of the other provinces?

[bingun]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Yeah, for which NB is paying a significant amount. Never understood the logic of that. NS? Sure, they don't want to be cut off from the ROC . Feds? sure part of their mandate to mantain interprovincial transport links .....but NB? why should we be singled out over any of the other provinces?

I mean, a big part of the isthmus is within provincial borders lol? I know it's a pissing contest on who pays for this, but it is important for NB, too.

[bingun]

An Americold post on LinkedIn from yesterday -

A Smarter Way to Enter North America’s Cold Chain

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/smarter-w...as-cold-chain-americold-logistics-avu4e/

Rethinking the Entry Point

A growing number of shippers are reconsidering how and where their cargo enters North America.

Port Saint John in New Brunswick offers a different model:

· Less congestion than major East Coast ports

· Direct proximity to both Canada and the U.S. Northeast

· A more efficient pathway for transatlantic shipments

For Europe-to-Canada trade in particular, this can reduce distance, handling, and overall complexity.

From Port to Network—Without the Friction

What makes this gateway different, however, is not just location.

Americold’s on-port, temperature-controlled facility—directly connected to CPKC’s rail network—creates a seamless transition from ocean to inland distribution.

That means:

· No intermediate drayage between port and cold storage

· Onsite inspection services

· Direct rail access into Canada and U.S. markets

· Fewer handling points overall

The result is a more controlled, predictable cold chain from arrival to destination.

The Outcome for Shippers

For importers and exporters alike, this approach delivers:

· Faster time to market

· Lower landed costs

· Reduced risk to product integrity

· Greater visibility across the network

Looking Ahead

The future of cold chain logistics will not be defined by scale alone—but by how well systems are designed to reduce friction and improve control.

Port Saint John represents that shift in action: a more direct, integrated gateway connecting global markets with Canada—and the rest of North America.