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  #1  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2021, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
It's because of the Civil Rights laws that bar certain forms of discrimination on the basis of race, gender, or disabilities. They track the data to measure compliance with laws and also to detect discriminatory practices.
That's certainly part of the reason they're still asking the questions, but apparently race was on the 1790 census.
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  #2  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2021, 10:42 PM
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My neighborhood of Lincoln Square is majority white, but not hallmark christmas card white.

White - 64%
Latino - 19%
Asian - 9%
Black - 4%
Other - 4%


So, certainly not hyper-diverse or anything, but moreso than a typical chicago neighborhood. The main thing majorly out of whack with city-wide percentages is the relative lack of black people, which is of course how it goes in chicago outside of a few rare instances.
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  #3  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2021, 10:36 PM
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Well, probably the original historical origin in the US is for "correct" apportionment due to the 3/5 compromise.
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Old Posted Apr 24, 2021, 10:49 PM
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My census tract is 64% white, 19% Asian, 7% Black, 7% Hispanic and 3% multi-racial. Median income is 116,000 (I'm far below that ).

Rogers Park seems to be far and away the most diverse part of the city?
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  #5  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2021, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
Looking at Detroit, you can see the extreme white/black segregation:


All images are screencaps from the Weldon Cooper Center's Racial Dot Map

What do you see?
Yeah, you can pretty much draw a line along 8 Mile Rd. After all these decades. Still.


Philly looks pretty segregated -



Pittsburgh too. Not a lot of Hispanic folks in Pittsburgh -

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  #6  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 1:36 AM
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Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
Yeah, you can pretty much draw a line along 8 Mile Rd. After all these decades. Still.
Not really, though.

I think people are forgetting that these are race and density maps. So a denser area will look different than a less dense area even if they're racially similar.

If you look at 8 Mile, the entire western half is overwhelmingly black, on both sides, and well into suburbia. The eastern half, no, but these are 2010 maps. The largest black increase/white decrease in Metro Detroit over the past decade has been southern Macomb county, so the racial distribution on the 2020 map will largely look the same on both sides of 8 mile.

But the map will still look kinda different on either side of 8 mile, because the density drops as you get north of 8 mile, and especially on the western (more affluent, woodsy, hilly) side. Southfield MI has 90%+ black census tracts that are almost rural-looking, yet a mile from Detroit proper.
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  #7  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 2:37 AM
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The contrast on either side of Mack Avenue (boundary of Detroit and the Grosse Pointes) is more stark than that of 8 Mile Road.
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  #8  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Not really, though.

I think people are forgetting that these are race and density maps. So a denser area will look different than a less dense area even if they're racially similar.

If you look at 8 Mile, the entire western half is overwhelmingly black, on both sides, and well into suburbia. The eastern half, no, but these are 2010 maps. The largest black increase/white decrease in Metro Detroit over the past decade has been southern Macomb county, so the racial distribution on the 2020 map will largely look the same on both sides of 8 mile.

But the map will still look kinda different on either side of 8 mile, because the density drops as you get north of 8 mile, and especially on the western (more affluent, woodsy, hilly) side. Southfield MI has 90%+ black census tracts that are almost rural-looking, yet a mile from Detroit proper.

Detroit itself has tons of areas that appear rural, so it's hard to imagine density dropping off in the suburbs. Especially on the east side, where outside of a small (but beautiful) intact part of Indian Village, the entire rest of the area is quasi-rural urban prairies until you hit the Grosse Pointes.
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  #9  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 4:51 PM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
Detroit itself has tons of areas that appear rural, so it's hard to imagine density dropping off in the suburbs. Especially on the east side, where outside of a small (but beautiful) intact part of Indian Village, the entire rest of the area is quasi-rural urban prairies until you hit the Grosse Pointes.
There's nothing in Detroit that really looks "rural". There are bombed-out, near-empty parts, but on a grid, with sidewalks, pedestrians, utilities, bus stops, and random structures. It looks more like a post-calamity city.

In Southfield, MI, just past the city line, there are quasi-rural neighborhoods, the type common in the Eastern U.S. Multi-acre, woodsy lots, mid-century dwellings, often on well water and septic. Obviously no sidewalks or pedestrian accommodations. But some of these tracts are 90%+ black, same as across 8 Mile in Detroit proper.
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  #10  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 5:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
There's nothing in Detroit that really looks "rural". There are bombed-out, near-empty parts, but on a grid, with sidewalks, pedestrians, utilities, bus stops, and random structures. It looks more like a post-calamity city.

In Southfield, MI, just past the city line, there are quasi-rural neighborhoods, the type common in the Eastern U.S. Multi-acre, woodsy lots, mid-century dwellings, often on well water and septic. Obviously no sidewalks or pedestrian accommodations. But some of these tracts are 90%+ black, same as across 8 Mile in Detroit proper.
I can't really think of any parts of Southfield that I would call "rural", but it's definitely designed to be post-war suburban. I think it's the least dense of all the municipalities that directly border the city of Detroit.
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  #11  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
There's nothing in Detroit that really looks "rural". There are bombed-out, near-empty parts, but on a grid, with sidewalks, pedestrians, utilities, bus stops, and random structures. It looks more like a post-calamity city.

In Southfield, MI, just past the city line, there are quasi-rural neighborhoods, the type common in the Eastern U.S. Multi-acre, woodsy lots, mid-century dwellings, often on well water and septic. Obviously no sidewalks or pedestrian accommodations. But some of these tracts are 90%+ black, same as across 8 Mile in Detroit proper.
I think parts of the bombed out areas definitely look rural:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3690...7i16384!8i8192

I hear what you're saying, but it seems like splitting hairs to say there aren't vast areas within the city of Detroit that at least appear pretty rural. They might have traces of crumbling sidewalks and have some semblance of a grid remaining, but they look more like the Mississippi Delta than a city neighborhood.
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  #12  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 1:27 AM
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Pittsburgh is likely the least Hispanic major city in the US. And even though it’s the state’s second largest, probably the least Hispanic city in PA. And is also incredibly segregated in every way imaginable... the topography lends itself naturally to that and has made it that much easier over the years.
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  #13  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
Pittsburgh is likely the least Hispanic major city in the US. And even though it’s the state’s second largest, probably the least Hispanic city in PA. And is also incredibly segregated in every way imaginable... the topography lends itself naturally to that and has made it that much easier over the years.
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Pittsburgh one of the least diverse major metros in the US?

From Wikipaedia:
Persons of color, or non-white Americans, represent only 13.5 percent of the region's population, compared to 38.7 percent in the United States overall.
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  #14  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 12:21 PM
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Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Pittsburgh one of the least diverse major metros in the US?

From Wikipaedia:
Persons of color, or non-white Americans, represent only 13.5 percent of the region's population, compared to 38.7 percent in the United States overall.
The metro area is pretty lily-white, but that's in part because the census defines it overly broadly, including a some counties (like Fayette and Armstrong) which really don't have anything remotely resembling "suburbs" within them. In general none of the outer counties have any nonwhite population to speak of, other than Beaver, which has a fairly sizable black population, including one majority black dying mill town (Aliquippa).

Zooming in to Allegheny County proper (but holding off on the cities) things are a bit more diverse. There's a wide swathe of black suburbia to the east of the city, which is the area that more upwardly-mobile black people from the City of Pittsburgh have traditionally moved to. The many smaller cities and boroughs of the Mon and Turtle Creek valleys are becoming blacker over time, due to a combination of preferential out-migration by white people along with lower-income city residents landing there due to gentrification (these areas have decent bus service, and cheap rentals, meaning they are doable for poor people who need to commute into the city for work or social services). Beyond the black population, the suburbs have long had a pretty substantial South Asian population which was historically focused more to the East of the city, but has more recently swung south. There is an apartment complex in the Green Tree area which has somehow become overwhelmingly Indian, which has in turn resulted in the former residents spilling out over the surrounding area as they become more established.

Now let's turn to the City of Pittsburgh itself:

The city has historically had a sizable black population, albeit a smaller one by the standards of a rust belt city. It never topped 30% of the city's population, and is probably now down to around 25% (all of the population decline of the 2010s was probably due to black flight). The historical heart of the black community was the Hill District, just to the east of Downtown, but urban renewal and the construction of housing projects scattered the black population across much of the city in the 1950s and 1960s. Still, there were never enough black people in the city to trigger the sort of wholesale flight from an entire "side" of a city as in St. Louis or Cleveland. As a result we ended up with a patchwork, where there are black neighborhoods and white neighborhoods in every part of the city (though proportionately more in the North Side and upper East End). In the 1990s the city had a fairly substantive group of Somali bantu refugees, but they have since scattered/acculturated (I seldom see anyone in traditional dress any longer).

Pittsburgh has a large and growing Asian population, but it is almost entirely comprised of college/grad students who attend University of Pittsburgh and CMU. It is also almost entirely restricted to Squirrel Hill (a traditionally Jewish neighborhood) and Shadyside (a traditionally yuppie neighborhood). There really isn't much in terms of a working-class Asian population, other than a substantial population of Bhutanese refugees (really ethnic Nepalis) who settled in the city's southern neighborhoods over the last two decades. They have been increasingly moving out to first-ring suburban neighborhoods as they become established however.

Pittsburgh has virtually no Latino population worth speaking of. For a long period of time the largest concentration of Latinos were just random middle-class folks who came here for college and settled down. There now is a small Mexican community centered around the neighborhood of Beechview in the southern part of the city (the neighborhood has a Mexican grocery and a handful of authentic restaurants) though my understanding is the population has barely increased since 2010.
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  #15  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 2:29 PM
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Now let's turn to the City of Pittsburgh itself:

The city has historically had a sizable black population, albeit a smaller one by the standards of a rust belt city. It never topped 30% of the city's population, and is probably now down to around 25% (all of the population decline of the 2010s was probably due to black flight).
that 25% was somewhat unexpected for me, so i went and looked it up.

sure enough, according to the 2019 ACS 5-year, non-hispanic black alone in pittsburgh city proper is 23.5%.

that is a fair bit higher than i would've guessed just going off of impressions.

i mean, that's not a ton lower than chicago's 29.2% for the same demo, and nobody ever thinks of chicago as not having a large black population.

it's probably pittsburgh's outsized share of non-hispanic whites (63.7%) within the city proper that leads to knee-jerk impressions of "not very diverse".

which is kinda funny because that's almost the exact same share as seattle city proper (63.8%), it's just that seattle's non-white demo is much more evenly split between asians, blacks, and latinos.
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  #16  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
that 25% was somewhat unexpected for me, so i went and looked it up.

sure enough, according to the 2019 ACS 5-year, non-hispanic black alone in pittsburgh city proper is 23.5%.

that is a fair bit higher than i would've guessed just going off of impressions.

i mean, that's not a ton lower than chicago's 29.2% for the same demo, and nobody ever thinks of chicago as not having a large black population.

it's probably pittsburgh's outsized share of non-hispanic whites (63.7%) within the city proper that leads to knee-jerk impressions of "not very diverse".

which is kinda funny because that's almost the exact same share as seattle city proper (63.8%), it's just that seattle's non-white demo is much more evenly split between asians, blacks, and latinos.
Other contributing factors I think.

1. Pittsburgh, like many rust belt cities, is heavily segregated. There are a handful of neighborhoods which look integrated on paper, but in reality they tend to have black sections and white sections - unless it's a neighborhood which is in the process of white flight (still happening in parts of the West End, Southern Hilltop, and outer North Side) or it's gentrifying.

2. Pittsburgh has a disproportionately small and invisible black middle class which has completely decamped to the suburbs. Spending time in Cleveland I was surprised at how many random black folks I saw in places like Great Lakes Brewing, having sushi downtown, or in vegetarian cafes. Spaces like this are generally all white in Pittsburgh (or have a smattering of Asians).
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  #17  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 7:24 PM
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i mean, that's not a ton lower than chicago's 29.2% for the same demo, and nobody ever thinks of chicago as not having a large black population.
Because about 90% of the mass media "news" that the rest of the country gets is about blacks killing blacks on Chicago's South Side. It's like nothing ever happens elsewhere in the city unless there's a paralyzing snowstorm or a killer heatwave.
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  #18  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 2:49 AM
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Minneapolis looks the most integrated of any Midwest metros:

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  #19  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 3:37 AM
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I think the Asian dots being red make them really stand out, and thus, makes there appear to be more Asians than there really are.
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  #20  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 3:38 AM
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I think the Asian dots being red make them really stand out, and thus, makes there appear to be more Asians than there really are.
Agreed! On the map, my neighborhood appears majority Asian, but it's only ~20% Asian.
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