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View Poll Results: Which 'historic' districts should be opened for dense (25+ Stories) development?
West End 'Villages' (Denman, Davie, Robson) 21 55.26%
Gastown 11 28.95%
Chinatown 16 42.11%
Yaletown Historic District 10 26.32%
DTES (Strathcona) 20 52.63%
South False Creek 24 63.16%
Granville Entertainment District 22 57.89%
Shaughnessy 17 44.74%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old Posted May 3, 2023, 3:36 PM
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Today (Tuesday) at 7pm it was very busy. Patios full. Even non-bar patios. Lots of tourists.

Not sure what folks with money and small business owners under 45 trying to retain pedestrian activity in the area is "delusional".
Yep it's pretty much a no brainer good idea. It has been proposed in the past a number of times.
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  #82  
Old Posted May 3, 2023, 6:28 PM
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Even just following through with the Gastown BIA recommendations would be a boon for the city. Biking through there yesterday "Railtown" east of Main is so close to being Mount Pleasant Industrial 2.0 with a few tweaks to the area plan for major redevelopment.
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  #83  
Old Posted May 3, 2023, 8:09 PM
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Today (Tuesday) at 7pm it was very busy. Patios full. Even non-bar patios. Lots of tourists.

Not sure what folks with money and small business owners under 45 trying to retain pedestrian activity in the area is "delusional".
Obviously cruise ship visitors don't really have a choice since we all know downtown Vancouver doesn't have too many nice neighbourhoods that can entertain them, and hence having to settle for less in Gastown is the obvious thing to do, especially since this area is so close to where they disembark from the ships. I'm sure they can spread the news about how dirty, stinky and sketchy our Gastown is once they return to their cities or countries of origin.

Outside the cruise ship seasons, this area is nothing but a dumpy ghost town, complete with passed-out bodies on the ground and zombies wondering around.

I am hoping that ABC can finally bring back even the locals with their family and friends to hang out in this neighbourhood: a place we can actually be proud of, such as the Shipyards at Lonsdale, North Vancouver.

Last edited by Vin; May 4, 2023 at 9:55 PM.
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  #84  
Old Posted May 3, 2023, 8:26 PM
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_double post_
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  #85  
Old Posted May 3, 2023, 9:56 PM
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...finally bring back even the locals with their family and friends to hang out in this neighbourhood: a place we can actually be proud of, such as the Shipyard at Lonsdale, North Vancouver.
Do not take the quote cut-off the wrong way, but I simply think this is a perfect "every Vancouverite" conversation to have, within the context of this thread, of what folks see as a solution to making an area better. What examples the see as better, and what exactly is it about those places that make it more "thriving". It's a great point to make, Vin. Gastown is still that 1970s plan frozen in time with dumb gift shops (thank god COVID closed a few down and I won't hide my hate of cruise ship tourists as well).

The Shipyards compared to Gastown is an interesting take, knowing the history and built form of the two areas.

Winter season foot traffic is definitely an issue for all parts of the city, but I think regular daytime traffic - whether it be Denman or Main Street - having more offices east of Main would greatly help Gastown daytime traffic. I think seeing what the new Stanley Hotel redevelopment does to the area will be a marker of things to come in the area without going full bulldoze and condo the whole area.
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  #86  
Old Posted May 3, 2023, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
Do not take the quote cut-off the wrong way, but I simply think this is a perfect "every Vancouverite" conversation to have, within the context of this thread, of what folks see as a solution to making an area better. What examples the see as better, and what exactly is it about those places that make it more "thriving". It's a great point to make, Vin. Gastown is still that 1970s plan frozen in time with dumb gift shops (thank god COVID closed a few down and I won't hide my hate of cruise ship tourists as well).

The Shipyards compared to Gastown is an interesting take, knowing the history and built form of the two areas.

Winter season foot traffic is definitely an issue for all parts of the city, but I think regular daytime traffic - whether it be Denman or Main Street - having more offices east of Main would greatly help Gastown daytime traffic. I think seeing what the new Stanley Hotel redevelopment does to the area will be a marker of things to come in the area without going full bulldoze and condo the whole area.
Without tourists a lot of the restaurants and stores wouldn't survive there, not only trinket shops. The vision laid out by those here seems to be just largely nightclubs/drinking etc which would just create another Granville strip, dead during the day.

Given that the designated "Second Downtown" is now Broadway is there really any impetus to develop office space east of Main? I only know one person currently working in an office there and they had their catalytic converter ripped out from underneath their car during the day. Not super appealing.
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  #87  
Old Posted May 3, 2023, 11:22 PM
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Without tourists a lot of the restaurants and stores wouldn't survive there, not only trinket shops. The vision laid out by those here seems to be just largely nightclubs/drinking etc which would just create another Granville strip, dead during the day.

Given that the designated "Second Downtown" is now Broadway is there really any impetus to develop office space east of Main? I only know one person currently working in an office there and they had their catalytic converter ripped out from underneath their car during the day. Not super appealing.
There is a great amount of retail and office in Gastown. I was just remarking at my personal loathing of tourist shops and glad that some did not survive.

The I-4 area of Railtown, and the I-2, M-1, and M-2 areas operate much like Mount Pleasant Industrial Area. You could greatly have more "office" or employment development just south of Alexander with adjustments to the DEOD Plan, the topic of this thread. There is a great demand for office space across the city. A great development was Alexander Centre, 405 Railway just completed.
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  #88  
Old Posted May 3, 2023, 11:29 PM
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The Granville Strip north of Nelson is always packed with people whenever I go there during the day, so IDK where that analogy is going.

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Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
... The I-4 area of Railtown, and the I-2, M-1, and M-2 areas operate much like Mount Pleasant Industrial Area. You could greatly have more "office" or employment development just south of Alexander with adjustments to the DEOD Plan, the topic of this thread. There is a great demand for office space across the city. A great development was Alexander Centre, 405 Railway just completed.
Yup - plenty of spaces which aren't nightclubs or bars that could benefit from a pedestrian-only Water Street. The only things to be "ashamed" of Gastown about are the state of the cobblestones and how nobody picks up after their dogs.
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  #89  
Old Posted May 4, 2023, 12:01 AM
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The Granville Strip north of Nelson is always packed with people whenever I go there during the day, so IDK where that analogy is going.



Yup - plenty of spaces which aren't nightclubs or bars that could benefit from a pedestrian-only Water Street. The only things to be "ashamed" of Gastown about are the state of the cobblestones and how nobody picks up after their dogs.
The brick pavers were a tremendously bad idea (as were the tree choices). Every time there's a replaced service connection they get into worse and worse shape, and often get patched with concrete or asphalt 'temporarily' and stay that way. And the trees have caused serious heave to the sidewalks in places too.

There's only one patio (other than Local at Maple Tree Square), and that's whatnext's childhood memory of Old Spaghetti. So much traffic uses it as a route from the east that it's really not that pleasant on the street. Repaving the street and widening the sidewalks, and replacing the trees would make it better, and taking traffic away better still.

It looks like 131 Water might actually get redeveloped - the restaurant space is empty, the hat shop just moved, La Differencia shoe store has closed and for now Premiere fashion is the only business operating on Water Street.
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  #90  
Old Posted May 4, 2023, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
The Granville Strip north of Nelson is always packed with people whenever I go there during the day, so IDK where that analogy is going.

Yup - plenty of spaces which aren't nightclubs or bars that could benefit from a pedestrian-only Water Street. The only things to be "ashamed" of Gastown about are the state of the cobblestones and how nobody picks up after their dogs.
The problem is that if you make Water St a pedway, you now have a pedway from Main St. to Waterfront Station.
Which means you have a giant sidewalk connecting directly to the DTES that's perfect to fill with homeless campers.


They could instead make Water Street a 2-way busway (like Granville is)- though the buses would benefit more from Powell St. being a busway, rather than Water Street.

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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Given that the designated "Second Downtown" is now Broadway is there really any impetus to develop office space east of Main? I only know one person currently working in an office there and they had their catalytic converter ripped out from underneath their car during the day. Not super appealing.
It's supposed to be largely office/industrial, really, but the development is slow because of DTES being a ghetto.
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  #91  
Old Posted May 4, 2023, 3:19 PM
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The problem is that if you make Water St a pedway, you now have a pedway from Main St. to Waterfront Station.
Which means you have a giant sidewalk connecting directly to the DTES that's perfect to fill with homeless campers.
The idea is not to let that happen. Robson Square isn't a homeless campsite.
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  #92  
Old Posted May 4, 2023, 4:31 PM
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The recent proposed changes to the I-1, I-1A, I-1B and I-1C zoning district schedules could probably be easily be applied to M and I-4 zones (Railtown) as well, for instance.

https://council.vancouver.ca/20230509/documents/rr1.pdf
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  #93  
Old Posted May 4, 2023, 9:52 PM
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The problem is that if you make Water St a pedway, you now have a pedway from Main St. to Waterfront Station.
Which means you have a giant sidewalk connecting directly to the DTES that's perfect to fill with homeless campers.
Only if the City lets that happen, just like how previous lousy City administrations let it go out of hand in the DTES, and elsewhere. Illegal camping and open drug use should be illegal in all public spaces, full stop.
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  #94  
Old Posted May 4, 2023, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
The Granville Strip north of Nelson is always packed with people whenever I go there during the day, so IDK where that analogy is going.



Yup - plenty of spaces which aren't nightclubs or bars that could benefit from a pedestrian-only Water Street. The only things to be "ashamed" of Gastown about are the state of the cobblestones and how nobody picks up after their dogs.
We know it is much much more than what you think.....



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Homeless and drug-addicted people who have long gravitated to the Downtown Eastside, during the pandemic shifted to also congregate in Gastown and Chinatown.

Pilot projects for the historic neighbourhood are set to focus on better sanitation and graffiti removal to help clean up the area.

"We have tour operators in Europe right now who have stopped selling [tours to] Chinatown and Gastown because they're worried about safety,"

Chwin said that the city has had a "dearth" of new tourism experiences. That is something he aims to change.

"Development also speaks to the work that we do with city council in advocating for development of hotel properties."

Come to think of it, tacky tourist souvenir shops are the last thing we need to be concerned about.
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  #95  
Old Posted May 4, 2023, 10:13 PM
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Chinatown, yes; Gastown, not really. Last time I was there, I could count the number of homeless on Water or Cordova with one hand.

Literally a month before that article, Vancouver Is Awesome was citing TripAdvisor when they called the city its "top travel destination in Canada" and walking food tours of Gastown a "not-to-miss (thing) to do."
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  #96  
Old Posted May 4, 2023, 11:02 PM
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Chinatown, yes; Gastown, not really. Last time I was there, I could count the number of homeless on Water or Cordova with one hand.

Literally a month before that article, Vancouver Is Awesome was citing TripAdvisor when they called the city its "top travel destination in Canada" and walking food tours of Gastown a "not-to-miss (thing) to do."
I walked through Chinatown to go down Water Street yesterday, and while there were dozens (hundreds?) of people on East Hastings (but not many tents) there were literally no homeless on Water Street, or on East Pender. MP Maintenance had pretty much obliterated all the graffiti too - just a couple of brick buildings that need more specialist cleaning, rather than painting over, but very different to a couple of years ago. (The clean-up program started before the election, so I assume it's the Chinatown BIA sponsoring it). Still plenty of vacant retail units, but it's hard to see how that will change any time soon.
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  #97  
Old Posted May 4, 2023, 11:34 PM
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Could it still be that rents are too high? I don't follow the commercial rent scene for older units.
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  #98  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 12:09 AM
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Could it still be that rents are too high? I don't follow the commercial rent scene for older units.
Rents too high? Should the landlords be paying the tenants to take that space?
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  #99  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 2:16 AM
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Rents too high? Should the landlords be paying the tenants to take that space?
Well if they offered it rent free, but with the tenant paying the taxes, they'd be saving money. Or they could just stop putting the rent up; an empty store will cost them money. Kent's Kitchen closed this week, after 40+ years, due to a 30% rent increase.
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  #100  
Old Posted May 5, 2023, 3:23 AM
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Rents too high? Should the landlords be paying the tenants to take that space?
It's pretty well known - not only here but in many parts of popular Canadian commercial areas - where rents are too high and you get prolonged vacancies. Just curious. You see this commonly with commercial vacancies in new buildings, for instance. Fraser and Broadway rings a bell. Denman multi-year vacancies, etc.
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