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  #8541  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2021, 10:16 PM
Utahn Utahn is offline
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Southern Utah County Frontrunner Extension

UTA also recently finished up its study of transit in Southern Utah County. In contrast to the Tooele study, found a Frontrunner extension to be the most viable alternative.

The locally preferred alternative (LPA) will include an extension of Frontrunner from Provo to Payson with an express bus connection to Santaquin. A future extension of Frontrunner from Payson to Santaquin would follow in the future.

Compared with Tooele County, I think the fact that UTA has been laying the groundwork towards this line has made a difference. Recent work on the Tintic railroad means the corridor is ready.

Public comment on the LPA closes today, then possible modifications may be made before moving on to the environmental study portion.





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  #8542  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2021, 12:31 PM
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I was just looking at this map of the Mountain View Corridor project from UDOT and I just noticed that the map appears to show the West Valley TRAX line extending down 3500 South into Magna. (Faint, dotted, red line)
https://mountainview.udot.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/MVC_Project_Overview_Map.pdf

I have heard that this was the long term plan but this is the first time I've seen it on any maps like this.
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  #8543  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2021, 5:44 AM
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Street & Intersection Typologies Design Guide Feedback Period

The 'Street & Intersection Typologies Design Guide' that Salt Lake City has been putting together is open for its final comment period. The feedback period ends on November 30th.

https://www.slc.gov/transportation/2021/10/30/typologies/
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  #8544  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2021, 4:57 PM
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What the $1.2T Infrastructure Bill Means for Utah.

Roadways and railways

Between a possible tunnel in Wyoming's Teton Pass, a boost to Utah's highways and what the White House says is the largest federal investment in a passenger rail system since Amtrak was created, here are some ways the package could help the West's travel infrastructure:
  • Over the next five years, Utah will have access to roughly $3 billion in highway funding. That means the Beehive State will likely see more roadwork as the state gears up to repair, maintain and possibly build roads and highways. "Utah has 2,064 miles of roads in poor condition. Commute times are up 7.2% in the state since 2011 and bad roads cost drivers an average of $709 per year in repair," according to Romney's office.
  • The American Road and Transportation Builders Association deems 62 bridges in Utah structurally deficient. However nationwide bridge maintenance, construction and repair will now see $40 billion in funding — of that, $30 billion "will be apportioned by formula," Romney's office said, to states to ensure they have the needed resources.
  • In Wyoming's famed Teton Pass, avalanches frequently close the road for those looking to work and recreate. The New York Times reports that some of the highway funding could be used to construct a tunnel to ensure continual access, regardless of what Mother Nature cooks up.
  • Lawmakers are targeting $35 billion for airport improvement projects, helping with expansions, planning, rebuilding runways, lighting and air navigation. In July, Utah's airports received roughly $1.8 million in federal grants from the Airport Improvement Program.
  • Amtrak is getting a boost, and the White House says the $66 billion investment in passenger railways is the largest since the state-owned enterprise was created in 1971. This will be divvied out across the country, and officials hope the funding will "modernize the northeast corridor, and bring world-class rail service to areas outside of the Northeast and mid-Atlantic." That means California's long-anticipated Los Angeles-to-San Francisco bullet train could be one step closer to reality.
  • Roughly $7.5 billion will go toward a national network of electric vehicle chargers, $5 billion for electric school buses and $6 billion for battery material processing grants and battery manufacturing and recycling grants.

There is obviously much more funding in the sprawling package for things like capping abandoned oil wells, wildfire management/prevention, National Park Service, expanding broadband internet, revamping water reclamation projects/infrastructure, etc. I’ve highlighted the transit/transportation section, but feel free to read about the rest at the link below:

Here's what the $1.2T infrastructure bill will look like in the West https://www.ksl.com/article/50279914/heres-what-the-12t-infrastructure-bill-will-look-like-in-the-west
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  #8545  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2021, 3:53 PM
Makid Makid is offline
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UTA is looking at another route to move passengers east and west

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/11/20/uta-is-looking-another/

Quote:
Utah Transit Authority was awarded nearly $1 million to find new ways for east-west transit, linking three high-growth areas of Salt Lake City.

The study, which received funding from the federal Department of Transportation, will look at linking University of Utah’s Research Park to the innovation district west of downtown at about 500 West and 200 South. An aim of the project is to run a connection through downtown.

Called the TechLink Corridor Study, the project will look at existing and potential transit options for residents along the corridor, where job growth is expected. It hopes to reduce the number of cars driven, improve energy efficiency and reduce emissions.

“We would like to thank the [Federal Transit Administration] for awarding the ... planning grant to Utah Transit Authority, in partnership with Salt Lake City and the University of Utah,” spokesperson Carl Arky said. “UTA is also grateful to Utah’s congressional delegation for its support during this successful application process.”

The study will look at the negative impacts any transit options would have on marginalized communities to prevent displacing available social services from the area.

The $1 billion DOT grant program judged projects based on safety, environmental sustainability, quality of life and economic development among other criteria. The UTA study was the only project in Utah to receive funding from the program.

“As in past years, we received far more applications than we could fund: this cycle saw about a ten-to-one ratio of requests to available dollars,” Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg said. “But going forward, with the passage of President [Joe] Biden’s bipartisan infrastructure law, we will be able to support far more infrastructure projects to support jobs and everyday life in communities across the country.”
I do wonder how this will look. I know that there are a few different plans in play.

1. Trax - Extend 4th South to 6th West to create a downtown loop. Can branch eastward from the Stadium to Research Park with a stop at the VA Hospital and 2 stops in Research Park. Estimated cost: $400 Million

2. Streetcar - Run along 2nd South downtown, to South Temple, through the U campus and terminating near the Zoo. Stops throughout. Estimated cost: $500 - $650 Million

3. BRT/Enhanced Bus - 2nd South through 7th East to 4th South, then 4th/5th South directly to Research Park. Estimated Costs: $150 Million to $700 Million from 0 dedicated lanes to fully dedicated lanes.

We know the City has been looking into a Streetcar for 2nd South now for a long time and it is still planned, as is the Granary line. UTA has looked at a BRT on 2nd South to 7th East with the line then extending south on 7th East. The U is currently looking into financing the 4th South Trax extension from Main to the Hub to link to their property purchased from the RDA (Innovation District).

In addition to the U pushing the Trax extendion on 4th South, the State is currently thinking about putting funds to this. There is a strong push to enhance the Innovation District for U Startups and a campus extension.
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  #8546  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2021, 8:22 PM
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I hope the 4th South TRAX extension can be postponed until the Rio Grande plan can get a fair shake. Extending to 450 West instead of 600 West is already a lot of savings that could potentially go elsewhere.

If they do decide to create a TRAX branch to the research park, might I suggest they extend it all the way to the Hogel Zoo? The route would be about 1.7 miles, beginning at the intersection of South Campus Drive and Mario Capecchi Drive, cutting across Red Butte Creek to Arapeen Drive, then turning east on Sunnyside Drive. Consistent station spacing would allow for a 2 or 3 new platforms, including the Zoo. The ride time from downtown to the Zoo would be maybe 5 minutes longer than the current trip up to the Medical Center Station, so about 22 minutes from Main street, or just under half an hour from the Rio Grande, should that ever happen.
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  #8547  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2021, 9:53 PM
Utahn Utahn is offline
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Trax & the Granary District

TechLink Corridor Study application included Granary District

There didn't seem to be much coverage of it in the article; however, the grant application submitted for the TechLink Corridor Study included the Granary District alongside Research Park, the U's Innovation District, and connections to the airport.

Seems clear from the language of the grant that the views its efforts in the Granary and Depot Districts as complementary to the U's Innovation District efforts.

Quote:
Granary and Depot Districts – Regional TRAX System
UTA’s recently completed Downtown Salt Lake City Rail Extensions & Connections Feasibility Study examined three new TRAX
alignment and operating plan scenarios that take advantage of the abandoned rail right of- way (ROW) that runs through the Granary
District. The Feasibility Study anticipated reduced transit travel times through more direct routing and fewer transfers, but did
not include any quantitative analysis. The TechLink Corridor Study will investigate these and other potential alternatives using Federal Transit Administration’s (FTA) Simplified Trips on Project Software (STOPS)

The Study will evaluate transit improvements intended to better connect UURP, the redeveloping Granary and Depot Districts, and
the new Innovation District. In identifying transit improvements, there is a potential for:
• A one-seat ride between the Research Park,Downtown Salt Lake City, the Innovation District, and Salt Lake City International Airport
• Serving growth in employment and resulting commuters expected at Research Park
• More direct routing/travel time savings between the Depot District, Downtown Salt Lake City, and other destinations
• Directly connecting the Granary District to the TRAX LRT system
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  #8548  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 8:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
I hope the 4th South TRAX extension can be postponed until the Rio Grande plan can get a fair shake.
Agreed
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  #8549  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2021, 8:40 AM
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Another year has come and gone. The Rio Grande Project remains in discussion in niche circles, and we are still waiting on the SL Tribune to run the story they wrote on the plan (its a real thing, I swear!). But even though nothing concrete has happened yet, I still feel optimistic about all the positive responses we've got from some of the well-connected people we've met - and some who have reached out to us. I think there are plenty of reasons to stay positive.

Changing the subject, I made a series of posts this time last year (link) containing my predictions/wish list items for TRAX in the next 20 years. Over the past year, I've changed some of my thinking, so I've updated my maps.

The premise is that all modes of transport in urban areas will be completely autonomous within 20 years, or at least working their way towards full autonomy. I've been fortunate to have access to Tesla's FSD Beta software since October (I claim bragging rights of receiving a safety score of 100, for anyone who knows what that means), and I am really excited to see this tech spread to the general public soon. It is amazing how normal it feels after a while for the car to drive itself through unprotected left hand turns and everything else. The main thing that usually causes me to 'intervene' in the car's self-driving is when it is either being a jerk to other cars (not letting them merge) or when other cars are being a jerk to it (not letting it merge). So I wouldn't quite trust it yet to drive itself to my office unattended to pick me up from work, but I am pretty confident that it will be capable of such a feat sometime next year. After that, its only a matter of time before we see a bunch of Tesla robotaxis doing everything from carpooling commuters to running errands. Parking lots will become increasingly unnecessary and stigmatized as the crime-ridden, waste-of-space, subsidized sprawl mechanisms they actually are, and they will gradually be replaced with infill and then completely outlawed in all but industrial/rural areas. Private vehicle ownership will plummet, with people owning cars not for utility but as a hobby (I imagine places like the cottonwood canyons will remain a popular place for people to drive their antique vehicles, like Dimple Dell is a place for people to practice the archaic practice of horse riding).

To get around, people will have a 'mobility app' to arrange transportation services for them, based on a bunch of slider settings, such as cost, desire for privacy, need for a faster trip, acceptable walking distance, etc. A common method of getting to work will be to have a robo carpool pick up passengers in a given neighborhood and take them to the nearest rail transit or bus station. (Regular buses will be discontinued, all bus lines will be BRT, with dedicated infrastructure matching the service level of rail.) Autonomous transit vehicles will come a minimum of every 5 minutes, meaning that waiting for a train will be comparable to waiting for an elevator, especially on busy routes with interlining.

Transit vehicles will not run on fixed colored or numbered routes like they do today. If the transit cars form a 'train' (more accurately a platoon, since there won't be physical couplers between cars) then it can be assumed that each car of the 'train' will go to a different destination. Riders will need to pick their cars carefully, and electronic signs above each doorway will tell passengers where each car is headed. The transit app on a traveler's phone/glasses/screen will tell their users which car to go to, and even which door to use. Payment will be handled by the app; paper tickets and fare machines will be a relic of the past.

Clever passengers - or let's be honest, transit nerds like me - will be able figure out where each car is headed based on the numbers it displays on its headboard. I've listed some key stations on the TRAX network and given them codes as an example of what I mean:


So a car headed north on the West Jordan Line might display 51-14-12-38, meaning it will continue north to Murray Central, then go directly to the downtown subway via the express line (more on that later), then emerge from the downtown subway to climb up to the University of Utah via 4th south, then take the new line through the University Research Park to the Hogel Zoo. For riders who don't need/care about this information, the relevant information will be interpreted by the transit app on their device. And because the routing of individual cars will be done in real-time, the use of a transit app will be required in order to 'hail' a transit vehicle traveling to a rider's destination. This isn't PRT - transfers will still be a regular occurrence for a lot of passengers, unless those passengers are headed downtown.

Downtown will be the obvious hub of the network, with the tracks through the two downtown loops being shared by many vehicles converging from the many branch lines. Trains on the surface will still have to share the space with pedestrians, cyclists, and the few robotaxis that can afford the congestion charges, so train speeds on the surface will be either similar to what they are today or perhaps even slower. This would be a major problem, since even today TRAX speeds through downtown are even slower than the S-Line streetcar, which is designed to go slow and is often mocked for it. So sometime in the next 20 years, SLC leaders will need to follow the lead of Portland and Dallas in creating a downtown subway section for TRAX, and join the leads of Seattle, Boston, Los Angeles, and Newark in operating a light rail system on the surface in the suburbs, but with a subway section downtown.
I believe the logical route for such a subway would begin with the S-curve south of 900 South, so that the subway tunnel could travel straight up 400 West all the way to 200 South. From there, it would follow 200 South all the way to 200 East, where it would curve south again to 400 South, where it would connect into the University Line at the Library station (which would need to be moved from 200 East to 300 East to handle the connection). A spur on 300 East between 200 South and North Temple would connect to the Airport and future Davis County lines as well, meaning all 3 routes into downtown would have access to the grade-separated subway section.
Here is the map of downtown, including the subway in black. The sand blue lines represent the shared tracks used by multiple lines:


EDIT: The station name 'Grand Avenues' needs to be switched to 'Grand Boulevards'. Also, if any text is too small, click the link in the signature line for 'Album of Transit Maps and Designs' for the full res image file.

The total length of the TRAX subway would be just over 2 miles, which is a reasonable length for our population. Costs can be cut further by building with the cut-and-cover method. Assuming the Rio Grande Plan gets built, the 1-mile trench to the old depot would be great practice for the future TRAX subway. 3 Stations would be built for the subway: 700 South 400 West, with a direct connection to the TRAX station I have named "Industry" in my fantasy map; 300 South and 400 West, with a direct connection to the pedestrian plaza in front of the Rio Grande Depot; and Gallivan Plaza, with entrances on both sides of Main Street. The 2 stations on 400 West would be pretty bare-bones, with stairs/escalators/elevators connecting the island platforms directly to the surface. The station at Gallivan Plaza would more akin to a full metro station, with an underground mezzanine level to connect all the entrances to the platforms, and to connect the station directly to nearby buildings and developments.

As for the rest of the TRAX system, my predictions haven't changed much in a year. Here's the updated map:


New lines include the east-west commuter rail, the Davis County line, and the Cottonwood line from Fashion Place West (renamed on the map) up the median of I-215 to the Cottonwood Canyon transit center (built at the gravel pits), where riders can transfer to buses up to the ski resorts (or a Stadler cog train... or even a gondola if you insist...). There is also an additional branch of the University Line that goes to the Research Park and Hogel Zoo, which I included mainly because of the recent talk of a transit study for such a connection. Details of these routes are located in the Google Map linked in my signature line. (Be sure to turn on the applicable layers.)
Most impactful, however, would be the Murray-Ballpark Express tracks, which would be a major upgrade of those 6 miles from traditional LRT to something more like a light metro. Between Murray Central and Ballpark, I am envisioning a 4-track mainline, with the western two tracks used for express service (no platforms, no stops) and the eastern two tracks used as local service, making twice as many stops as TRAX currently does. This entire route would be built on an elevated embankment, and all railroad crossings would be replaced by bridges. This sort of upgrade may sound preposterous, but the numbers bear out that such a thing will be needed sooner than later. There are 15 at-grade crossings between Murray Central and Ballpark stations, shared between 2-3 TRAX lines now and more in the future, each running a 15-minute headway. This adds up to over 5,000 grade-crossing activations per day, meaning 5,000 opportunities for accidents and collisions, and 5,000 for-sure instances of backed-up traffic. Many of the roads that are crossed are major east-west arteries, and 3 of the roads have freeway interchanges, which generate a lot of traffic and which suffer greatly if there are blockages at the grade crossings. Furthermore, very little infill development will happen around active grade crossings. The constant noise of the bells and gates, the constant peril of getting hit by a train, and the continued sound of all the idling cars and passing trains is just too much. Worse still are streets like 17th South, which feature all the listed drawbacks but lack the benefit of having a station - who would want to live there? If the area around the main TRAX 'trunk' between downtown and Murray is ever going to get infill development, it will need more stations, and it will need those stations to be elevated. All of this points to a near-future need to upgrade the main 'trunk' between Murray and Downtown in one big project, rather than multiple smaller projects spread out over decades. By closing down the trunk and completely replacing it with an elevated 4-track main, TRAX will get the capacity upgrade necessary for it to remain relevant in the autonomous future, and the light-industrial area around the TRAX line can finally blossom as a dense, urban/residential corridor. (Compare Chicago's north shore line, and Portland's MAX system between Lloyd Center and Gateway stations.)

So, those are my thoughts/predictions/wishlist items for the future of our transit system. I'm sure things will evolve and change over time, but I really wish our planners would start work on some 'big-picture' proposals like this one. We need a comprehensive Master Transit Plan, because without one we won't build a cohesive, functional system - but rather we will be slapping band-aids haphazardly on the most popular problems, and hoping they mesh somewhat coherently. I hope this post inspires discussion on what our future holds and what we should be building for.

Happy new year, and a prosperous 2022 to all!
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  #8550  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2022, 4:18 PM
tygr tygr is online now
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Should UTA service be free? This bill would make it happen

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  #8551  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 10:24 PM
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Not sure it this is the correct thread, but I had a question about the Mountain View corridor extending north to I-80. Currently, the northern terminus of construction is at California avenue. A lot of industrial warehousing construction is occurring north of California Ave. Does anyone know what land will be used North of Cal Ave. to I-80?
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  #8552  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironweed View Post
Not sure it this is the correct thread, but I had a question about the Mountain View corridor extending north to I-80. Currently, the northern terminus of construction is at California avenue. A lot of industrial warehousing construction is occurring north of California Ave. Does anyone know what land will be used North of Cal Ave. to I-80?
It will curve to the west of where it currently terminates at California Ave. approximately like the following image:

MVC

Project Map from Utah.gov:
https://mountainview.udot.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/MVC_Project_Overview_Map.pdf

Last edited by Stenar; Jan 22, 2022 at 11:54 PM.
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  #8553  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2022, 10:00 PM
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UTA announced Free-Fare February for its entire system.
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  #8554  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 7:43 AM
Ironweed Ironweed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
It will curve to the west of where it currently terminates at California Ave. approximately like the following image:

MVC

Project Map from Utah.gov:
https://mountainview.udot.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/MVC_Project_Overview_Map.pdf
Thanks Stenar.

Not a lot of room to navigate through those buildings. I'm wondering if they have eminent domain for the buildings on the west side?
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  #8555  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 7:59 AM
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I'm definitely in the pro-free fare camp. Until UDOT charges vehicles a VMT (vehicle mile traveled) tax, I am totally in favor of eliminating transit fares. And since there is very little possibility of a VMT tax going into effect until all road traffic is predominantly robotaxis, I guess I will be pro-free fare for a very long time.

Go back to page 374 (posts from December 0f 2017) and read a few of the arguments there if you are curious. The main points are:
  • UTA gets only 10-15% of its revenue from fare collections. UTA also spends 7% of its budget on fare collection and enforcement, meaning that half (or more!) of all the money collected in fares is then spent to enforce fares! How perverse!
  • Critics love to point to empty buses as an argument that transit is unnecessary. I like to point to all the empty cars sitting in parking lots, or all the empty seats in single-occupancy vehicles and say that cars are unnecessary, but that usually gets me nowhere. If you want to shut up the critics, we need to fill the buses. It is so much easier to get funding for something that is popular, so we need the broadest possible base of support.
  • So many public services are free and unquestioned. Public libraries, parks, trails, and roads are all free to use. Imagine if you had t pay a fee to use the library. Who would ever use that?
  • Transit is cheaper to implement than building more roads, or even more lanes onto existing roads. Utilize what we have before building new stuff.
  • The best way to raise people out of poverty, or to raise anyone's status in society for that matter, is not to provide subsidized housing, it is to provide people with affordable transportation. Many studies prove this. Instead of providing subsidized housing that will only directly benefit a few individuals, we should spend that money on subsidized transit that will benefit ALL individuals. I am not against affordable housing per se, but I think it is one of many tools that can be used, and right now the correct tool to fight housing prices is better transportation.

The biggest argument I've heard against free transit this time around is that the $37 million dollars UTA is forfeiting annually by not charging fares could be better spent on transit improvements. I disagree, mainly because $37 million really isn't that much compared to what UTA transit expansion projects usually cost. For example, the FrontRunner Forward program received $300 million to double-track the most strategic sections of the line. It would take 8 years to save up to $300 million by collecting $37 million per year. But there is more! At the same time, UTA is building OGX, the BRT line from Weber State University to the Ogden FrontRunner station. That project costs just over $75 million, which is a lot for a single bus line, but it is half of the cost of UVX, which cost over $150 million. The Taylorsville BRT line is expected to cost $33 million, or nearly the same amount as the UTA annual fare revenue - just for the 1 route! Oh, and at the same time, UTA is also building the Vineyard FrontRunner station for $5.6 million.

And the list goes on and on. The point being, $37 million is not significant in the face of what UTA actually requires to keep its system growing. What UTA needs is government grants for new projects - the same way that public roads get public grants for construction and maintenance. Now, how do you increase the probability of getting a government grant? You need to show that a proposed project will be useful to taxpayers - which means for transit, you have to have a high ridership. What is the best way to get people to ride the bus? By making transit free!

I posit that by eliminating fares, UTA may be forfeiting $37 million in fare revenue, but it will be gaining much, much more than that by becoming a more popular and a more useful service to more Utah taxpayers. If you are upset by $37 million dollars, you are thinking too small. UTA needs to receive hundreds of millions of dollars just to keep up with current growth - for buying new electric buses to creating new BRT lines on Redwood Road, State Street, 700 East, Foothill Drive, 33rd/35th South, 45th/47th South, etc.
At the glacial pace UTA receives its funding now, and with ridership growth basically stagnant, these goals would take decades to achieve. But with a massive influx of riders, UTA could rightly demonstrate that they are making a tangible impact on traffic, and so receive their funding in a much more timely manner.

That's it, basically. Free fares for everyone, and raise your sights!
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  #8556  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 4:22 PM
Makid Makid is offline
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I am also in the camp of free fares. As Hatman mentioned 50% or more of the money that is received from fares is then used to collect fares. This means if UTA gets $37 Million in fares, it is spending between $18.5 Million and $25 Million in fare collection/ticketing services. This allows only a maximum of $18.5 Million annually to be used for transit improvements, operations or bond repayments. This is a slower way to improve transit.

If we look at the impact of Free Fares, we know from prior studies that UTA can gain anywhere from 50% to 100% increased ridership. Past experiences show that UTA receives a nearly 75% increase in the average daily ridership across the various modes offered.

This could put UTA at nearly 130K for bus, 110K for Trax, and 35K for FrontRunner on an average daily ridership metric.

While this is great, especially for a Metro of our size, there are some additional benefits along the Wasatch Front:

Traffic reduction
Improved Air Quality
More TODs
Lower parking requirements
More walkable developments

There is also something that is rarely discussed in any of these stories, probably because the numbers aren't really known. That is internal transit advertising. I have mentioned it previously but as the discussion of free fares is at its highest so far, I will discuss this more here.

The numbers I will use are very probably off but should provide a good reference:

Say UTA currently receives $40 Million annually from advertising. This is all forms, from bus/train wraps through the advertisements within the buses and trains.

Any increase in ridership will improve and increase how much UTA receives in advertising revenue. It is based on the Average Daily Ridership numbers (for the internal ads) and the estimated eyes along the routes (for the wraps). Most of UTA's train wrap revenue is gained from areas north of 1300 South due to the trains being more visible. Buses are more spread out.

If ridership was to increase by 50%, we could expect to see an equal increase in advertising revenue. The same would be in effect for a 75% increase or even a 100% increase. This means that a safe 75% increase in ridership from free fares would see a revenue increase of $30 Million annually (using 40 million as the start). This is vastly more than the maximum $18.5 million that UTA receives today from net fare collection.

This increased funding can be leveraged into improved and enhanced service. Each new mixed traffic route costs approximately $500K annually to operate and between $2 Million and $5 Million to begin service. The costs vary based on the type and frequency of service. Long distance route buses with more padding on the seats cost more than local route buses, accordion buses can vary based on power type, and then there are the stops/markers/seats that are placed. Many of these are 1 time costs with 15 year replacement cycles.

If we take just the $30 Million increase from ad revenue and use it for increased routes, better buses, increased frequencies, etc. all based on a ridership priority ROI, we could see at least 5 new routes annually and roughly 5 routes upgraded with combinations of better buses and better frequencies. This is just with the increased revenue from the ads.

Lastly, the increase in ridership from free fares does make larger transit projects more feasible. Take for example the 5600 West Transit route. It is required to be BRT until MVC is a full freeway and it must then be upgraded to LRT. Using the current estimated ridership (fare pay), it is estimated to move roughly 50,000 riders daily starting in 2050. That is hard to justify for a $3+ Billion route when for $1.5 Billion you could extend the Blue line to American Fork and gain 65,000 daily riders today. But if you have Free Fares, the 5600 W LRT would move nearly 80K daily. That is easier for people to justify the cost around. It also would make it stupid to not extend the Blue line to American Fork for the 100+K increase it would provide at $1.5 Billion.

It makes it easier to prioritize transit over road and highway expansions. This is why FrontRunner double tracking and even electrification are on the States list for improvements over adding a single lane to I-15. The ROI for transit improvements are vastly superior to that of a single lane highway lane.
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  #8557  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 8:22 PM
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Stenar Stenar is offline
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Originally Posted by Ironweed View Post
Thanks Stenar.

Not a lot of room to navigate through those buildings. I'm wondering if they have eminent domain for the buildings on the west side?
The buildings were built AFTER UDOT decided on that route. It's tight, but I assume UDOT set aside as much land as they need.

You can see the land was clearly set aside in this curved area between the warehouses:

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  #8558  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 6:07 AM
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Hatman Hatman is offline
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There is also something that is rarely discussed in any of these stories, probably because the numbers aren't really known. That is internal transit advertising. I have mentioned it previously but as the discussion of free fares is at its highest so far, I will discuss this more here.

The numbers I will use are very probably off but should provide a good reference:

Say UTA currently receives $40 Million annually from advertising. This is all forms, from bus/train wraps through the advertisements within the buses and trains.

Any increase in ridership will improve and increase how much UTA receives in advertising revenue. It is based on the Average Daily Ridership numbers (for the internal ads) and the estimated eyes along the routes (for the wraps). Most of UTA's train wrap revenue is gained from areas north of 1300 South due to the trains being more visible. Buses are more spread out.

If ridership was to increase by 50%, we could expect to see an equal increase in advertising revenue. The same would be in effect for a 75% increase or even a 100% increase. This means that a safe 75% increase in ridership from free fares would see a revenue increase of $30 Million annually (using 40 million as the start). This is vastly more than the maximum $18.5 million that UTA receives today from net fare collection.
That is a very good point. It reminds me of Google's plan to make their self-driving taxis free to use, so long as they could blare ads at you while you rode in one:

https://www.campaignlive.com/article/goo...e-rides-stores-self-driving-cars/1228552

https://medium.com/@itsbeneddy/googles-s...ee-on-demand-transportation-ac8e07e97399

It is impressive how much money is spent on advertising. Think of all the vase infrastructure required to operate something like YouTube - all the servers, all the web designers and maintenance, all the file storage, etc - and consider that all of it is paid for basically by advertising, since nearly all users of YouTube don't pay anything for it. This site follows a similar pattern.

UTA should go all-in on advertising. Make TRAX like the double-decker trams in Hong Kong, which have no default paint scheme, since every one is completely covered in ads all the time:



Maybe do some sort of sponsorship exchange so that we can take down some of the billboards downtown. Something like, you take down your board, and we'll give you 6 TRAX cars to decorate in perpetuity, or something.
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  #8559  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 6:09 AM
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Hatman Hatman is offline
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The buildings were built AFTER UDOT decided on that route. It's tight, but I assume UDOT set aside as much land as they need.
This interactive map will probably interest both of you, if you haven't seen it already:
https://uplan.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Story...l?appid=e630310b07564f51aec2030bfe377679

The planning and foresight for the Mountain View Corridor has been fantastic. I wish UDOT - or anyone in Utah, really - could adopt and implement a master plan for transit with the same effectiveness. Planning ahead and preserving ROW for the future will pay off bigtime down the road.
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  #8560  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 11:52 PM
Ironweed Ironweed is offline
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Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
This interactive map will probably interest both of you, if you haven't seen it already:
https://uplan.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Story...l?appid=e630310b07564f51aec2030bfe377679

The planning and foresight for the Mountain View Corridor has been fantastic. I wish UDOT - or anyone in Utah, really - could adopt and implement a master plan for transit with the same effectiveness. Planning ahead and preserving ROW for the future will pay off bigtime down the road.
Thanks Hatman.

The only thing I would add is: The immediate need to build out the freeway!!

Not in ten years, not 20, but now!!! The ridiculous traffic on I-15 warrants it!!

UDOT has only built the frontage roads of the corridor and not the actual freeway.

With all the federal money sloshing around, I find it odd there are still unfunded portions.
(This map was last updated in 2019?)

Utah County as usual is way behind the eight ball...No corridor planning further south,
let alone any construction.

I must be missing something.
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