HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


View Poll Results: Were you shocked by any of the cities on the list or the order in which they appeared
Yes 9 34.62%
No 17 65.38%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #201  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2026, 4:45 AM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,030
All your construction updates show empty streets in the photos.
Seems to be a common thing there.

Massive parking garages nobody seems to want to walk by.
It's bleak

Maybe you shouldnt try to brag about high-rises when theyre mostly investments for people who live somewhere else.
Id rather see life. I know this is a skyscraper forum but they don't mean anything if nobody's around.
It's also weird being in Vegas off the strip but close to the big casinos..

Last edited by LA21st; Jun 1, 2026 at 5:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #202  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2026, 5:26 AM
Altoic's Avatar
Altoic Altoic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,538
Not at all! That's quite a broad brush you painted over the Miami housing market, and pretty false.

I know it's hard to believe but there's people who are renting and buying in these new towers who plan on living in the city. There's also multiple housing types under construction in Miami, and many are mid-rise and low-rise rental apartments and condos. They're in proximity to transit and often required to add workforce and affordable housing.

For instance, below is a multi-acre housing project that is moving forward. There will be 3,446 workforce apartments and 2,284 affordable apartments. A new tri-rail train station will be built in the community. Since it's pretty large it's going to proceed in phases.



Or take for instance Brickell, which according to you is the devoid of life. A developer recently completed a mixed-income 29-story highrise featuring 93 affordable units (50% AMI), 70 workforce units, and 302 market rate units. A school is also built on the property.



Or Hue Hub which is finishing up demolition to break ground this year. The community is entirely rental with new workforce units starting at $1,300. There will be 4,032 units. Each tower will rise 320 FT and the full build out calls for about 10.



All of these communities are not geared for investors that you seem to know all about. I'm also sure there's a lot of work to be done too, as Miami is still incredibly unaffordable. I understand LA doesn't build much because it's largely controlled by classist NIMBYS who halt any form of density, but that doesn't mean you have to lie about another market you know nothing about. If you want to be educated on the state of the market I'll post some more projects that, which may be surprising, people are planning to live in!

Last edited by Altoic; Jun 1, 2026 at 6:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #203  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2026, 2:48 PM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,030
Miami is known as a place that builds towers for investors. I never said ALL units or buildings are investors. So you're lying trying to imply that. And it's intersting your examples of affordable housing are nothing liike the stuff you mentioned on the previous page.

And once again, youri photo of Brickell looks devoid of life. Maybe that looks ok or normal to you, but for most, it doesnt.
Are you talking about the one person? Huh.

Miami Dade is losing people even with immigration and will going forward, so not sure who you're trying to convince. Unlike you, I don't think highrises are all that important, especially if they can't activate the neighborhood.
Whats the point? There's blocks of Chicago that have highrises and look empty too, so it's not just a Florida thing. I think it looks/feels weird anywhere.
Parts of Arlignton VA have this problem too. Crystal City, and Ballston and Rosslyn to a lesser extent. They look nice from afar, and when you get there it's "where's the people?"
They're just not pleasant or fun to walk in, which is why those streets look so dull.

Last edited by LA21st; Jun 1, 2026 at 3:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #204  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2026, 3:02 PM
mhays mhays is online now
Never Dell
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 21,049
I spent a few nights in Brickell last month. It was reasonably busy and walkable though the sidewalks weren't packed, and I was actually impressed by how it's coming together. The sheer number of residents (exploding with all the new towers) means people out and about despite the parking ratios. Many streets are narrow. Brickell City Center (the new mall) is fully leased and pretty busy. The restaurant scene seems pretty good.

As for Seattle's (and Bellevue's) height limits, the fact that every tower goes to the fullest height allowed suggests most would go taller if they could. I'm oversimplifying, and it's possible that with unlimited heights more sites would lay fallow waiting for great vs. good, but a lot of taller towers would be built.

Seattle's towers are mostly rentals, and mostly smaller units. They also come with fewer parking spaces than living units, all of them. Aside from the senior living tower (the complex average 90 years old iirc) they'll bring a lot of life to the street.
__________________
"Alot" has never been a word.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #205  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2026, 3:08 PM
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is online now
Volatile Pacivist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,103
Building towers for investors doesn't mean a place is empty. It means the towers are occupied by people renting the units from the unit owners rather than them being owner occupied. The empty ones aren't usually investment units. It's people who buy them for themselves as additional part time homes they only use occasionally.

But honestly even if it was true, it's crazy to attack a city just because someone is talking about its highrise construction. No reason to bring up totally different topics. Next thing people will be saying that we shouldn't discuss the construction of a particular city because the city has too much traffic. Or a high crime rate. Or some other flaw that has nothing to do with the topic.
__________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Don't ask people not to debate a topic. Just stop making debatable assertions. Problem solved.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #206  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2026, 3:10 PM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,030
The retail section is what, 4 blocks? I mean it should have some amenties and restaurants. Most downtown's do.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #207  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2026, 4:28 PM
UrbanImpact's Avatar
UrbanImpact UrbanImpact is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
The retail section is what, 4 blocks? I mean it should have some amenties and restaurants. Most downtown's do.
What are you talking about? Downtown Miami has tons of restaurants (I did the architectural plans for 2 of them) and retail, as well as 3 urban malls (Brickell City Center, Mary Brickell Village, & Bayside), and a new retail promenade (Miami World Center).

Last edited by UrbanImpact; Jun 1, 2026 at 4:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #208  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2026, 8:12 AM
bobdreamz's Avatar
bobdreamz bobdreamz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Miami
Posts: 8,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
The retail section is what, 4 blocks? I mean it should have some amenties and restaurants. Most downtown's do.
Flagler Street which is the main retail street downtown is about a mile long and is lined with shops & restaurants with mainly office space above.
It is sandwiched between Biscayne Bay & Bayfront Park to the East & the Miami River to its west which doesn't give it much room to be a vibrant downtown after hours.
Hence why other nearby neighborhoods like Little Havana across the river from downtown with apartments, shops & restaurants are quite vibrant at almost all hours.
__________________
Miami : 70 Skyscrapers over 500+ Ft.|150+ Meters | 10 Under Construction.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #209  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2026, 3:49 PM
Notonfoodstamps Notonfoodstamps is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Building towers for investors doesn't mean a place is empty. It means the towers are occupied by people renting the units from the unit owners rather than them being owner occupied. The empty ones aren't usually investment units. It's people who buy them for themselves as additional part time homes they only use occasionally.

But honestly even if it was true, it's crazy to attack a city just because someone is talking about its highrise construction. No reason to bring up totally different topics. Next thing people will be saying that we shouldn't discuss the construction of a particular city because the city has too much traffic. Or a high crime rate. Or some other flaw that has nothing to do with the topic.
It is true. A non-insignificant amount of condo buildings do functional sit "half empty" at any one given time when 50% of the condos purchased in Miami are specifically used as short-term rentals or vacation homes. Rental apartments had a sustained boom in the late '10s - early '20's, but supply has largely caught up to demand.

Miami's skyline growth is almost entirely underpinned by "wealth migration" / massive cash purchases by high-net-worth individuals with a splash of recent corporate relocations. Is what it is.

There's definitely no need to attack Miami as a city (been there and love it), but understanding the "whys" behind the "whats" is very important in fundamentally understanding what shapes a city.

Last edited by Notonfoodstamps; Jun 4, 2026 at 4:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #210  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2026, 4:32 PM
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is online now
Volatile Pacivist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notonfoodstamps View Post
It is true. A non-insignificant amount of condo buildings do functional sit "half empty" at any one given time when 50% of the condos purchased in Miami are specifically used as short-term rentals or vacation homes. Rental apartments had a sustained boom in the late '10s - early '20's, but supply has largely caught up to demand.
Vacation homes, sure. If downtown Miami (as opposed to Miami Beach or other likelier areas) has a significant percentage of them then that would make things less vibrant. But short term rental does not mean a unit spends a lot of time empty. That's stuff like air b'n'b which tend to be people coming and going quite frequently. But if there are actual stats to support the claim that there's a high percentage of vacant units then that would be interesting to see.
__________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Don't ask people not to debate a topic. Just stop making debatable assertions. Problem solved.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #211  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2026, 4:54 PM
mhays mhays is online now
Never Dell
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 21,049
While I'm not a fan of short-term rentals' effects on the housing market, they do have a big plus: their occupants will be tourists, out and about and spending money. They probably generate multiples of the restaurant business per bed vs. the average apartment. And they pack into all the touristy stuff like museums. Many will spend their time shopping.
__________________
"Alot" has never been a word.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #212  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2026, 6:02 PM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Vacation homes, sure. If downtown Miami (as opposed to Miami Beach or other likelier areas) has a significant percentage of them then that would make things less vibrant. But short term rental does not mean a unit spends a lot of time empty. That's stuff like air b'n'b which tend to be people coming and going quite frequently. But if there are actual stats to support the claim that there's a high percentage of vacant units then that would be interesting to see.
https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/florida-homes-seasonal-visitors-owners/

https://medium.com/@edmondthorne/florida...lies-struggle-to-find-homes-e7c806805248

https://thecapitolist.com/lendingtree-florida-leads-the-nation-with-the-most-vacant-homes/

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2025/09/08/vacant-homes-melbourne-daytona.html

What I said isn't news. Its def an issue and not a good one. Maybe some people on this page dont mind it cause they might be highrises? It's a skyscraperforum, but I prefer vibrancy.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #213  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2026, 7:39 PM
Notonfoodstamps Notonfoodstamps is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Vacation homes, sure. If downtown Miami (as opposed to Miami Beach or other likelier areas) has a significant percentage of them then that would make things less vibrant. But short term rental does not mean a unit spends a lot of time empty. That's stuff like air b'n'b which tend to be people coming and going quite frequently. But if there are actual stats to support the claim that there's a high percentage of vacant units then that would be interesting to see.
https://www.miamidda.com/files/assets/mi...sidential-analysis-report-2025_final.pdf

This is a good breakdown on Miami residential breakdown.

Not that DT Miami doesn't have a large downtown permanent residential population but to Mayhs point, Miami has a lot of foot traffic because of it's disproportional amount of people in staying high-rises/skyscrapers tend to be on vacation/tourist who are way more likely to be out and about exploring and shopping than someone who just finished the 9-5 shift.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #214  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2026, 7:55 PM
Altoic's Avatar
Altoic Altoic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,538
You say you prefer vibrancy but when I ask if you've ever visited Miami recently you ignore the question, which gives me the answer.

Miami's high-rise construction pipeline is not exclusively condos, it includes a large share of purpose-built rental apartments, in fact my previous list has rental stock. Of the condo stock that does exist, a growing portion explicitly permits short-term rentals. I think everyone knows short-term rentals generate nothing for affordability, but they certainly improve 'vibrancy', meaning units that might've sat vacant are actively generating occupancy and revenue.

Looking at the occupied stock in Brickell specifically, 73.6% of occupied units are renter-occupied, with only 26.4% owner-occupied as a primary residence. Of the total housing stock in Brickell, 20.9% are unoccupied, meaning they're unsold, used seasonally, or undergoing renovation. Downtown Miami skews even further to a rental market, with roughly 81% of occupied units held by renters and 18% of total stock (unoccupied + occupied) sitting vacant. Vacancy rates are even lower in Edgewater.

Source: https://www.point2homes.com/US/Neighborhood/FL/Brickell-Demographics.html
Source: https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/fl/brickell/

On the rental side, Miami ranks as the #1 most competitive rental market in the U.S., and Miami-Dade's rental occupancy sits at approximately 96-98% depending on the source.

Source: https://southfloridaagentmagazine.com/2025/12/12/miami-hottest-rental-market-2025/

The seasonal vacancy story is real but hardly concentrated in Miami proper. Sunny Isles Beach's 49% vacancy rate is a reflection of that, mainly from wealth migration and foreign wealth, however nobody is arguing Sunny Isles condos are full, nor vibrant.

The "empty Miami" assumption your pointing at is either from outdated data or a myth that draws from markets not associated with the city.

This conversation has happened repeatedly where your strong, and often wrong, opinions have derailed a conversation about construction and numbers, not whether a city is vibrant. When other users call you out you push further. I understand Miami is a highly polarizing, and often annoying city. I myself get annoyed by the politics and people there, but there's no reason to derail a thread with baseless opinions.

Also your sources are all about Florida and not Miami and one even specifically says "CENTRAL" florida??

Last edited by Altoic; Jun 4, 2026 at 8:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:11 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.