Dead Malls of Canada - Page 88

MolsonExport · #**1741** Posted **Dec 30, 2025, 4:36 PM**

I thought that Sarnia was about double the size of Port Huron

Djeffery · #**1742** Posted **Dec 30, 2025, 6:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I thought that Sarnia was about double the size of Port Huron

More than double, for city to city. I don't know how the surrounding CA's or whatever might compare.

GreatTallNorth2 · #**1743** Posted **Dec 31, 2025, 12:20 AM**

The "metro" of Port Huron is close to 160,000 so that is probably about 2x as big as Sarnia. I am not surprised that the mall in Port Huron is doing badly because it seems to only do well when the U.S. dollar is favourable to Canadians and when there is a lot of cross border traffic (i.e. no covid, etc.). That mall, when there is free flow of traffic, is servicing Port Huron, Sarnia and also people from London who want to take a day trip.

Marshsparrow · #**1744** Posted **Dec 31, 2025, 2:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

The "metro" of Port Huron is close to 160,000 so that is probably about 2x as big as Sarnia. I am not surprised that the mall in Port Huron is doing badly because it seems to only do well when the U.S. dollar is favourable to Canadians and when there is a lot of cross border traffic (i.e. no covid, etc.). That mall, when there is free flow of traffic, is servicing Port Huron, Sarnia and also people from London who want to take a day trip.

With the northern Detroit suburbs offering retail options such as Great Lakes Crossing - many just make the extra 50 minute drive to get to better shopping options than Port Huron.

MolsonExport · #**1745** Posted **Dec 31, 2025, 8:26 PM**

Interesting. Aside from the plethora of expressways, Port Huron looks and feels much smaller than Sarnia. I would never have guessed the metro to be about 160K...does that include Sarnia?

The main drag of Port Huron (could be Exeter, or Strathroy):

City proper Port Huron was bigger in 1931 than it is today. City proper Sarnia is four times bigger today than it was in 1931.

Loco101 · #**1746** Posted **Jan 2, 2026, 5:36 AM**

I had always thought of Port Huron as being smaller than Sarnia market-wise (and surrounding population) until I went shopping there and saw that they have businesses for larger markets such as Sam's Club and the Olive Garden as examples.
I'd much rather live in Sarnia but I have close family members there so I know a fair amount about the city.

Djeffery · #**1747** Posted **Jan 2, 2026, 3:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101

I had always thought of Port Huron as being smaller than Sarnia market-wise (and surrounding population) until I went shopping there and saw that they have businesses for larger markets such as Sam's Club and the Olive Garden as examples.
I'd much rather live in Sarnia but I have close family members there so I know a fair amount about the city.

I think a lot of certain types of businesses include the Sarnia area into their market potential when looking at Port Huron. Especially unique retailers and restaurants that aren't in Canada. Even in London, I knew lots of people that talked about going to Port Huron just for dinner at Olive Garden (after the London location closed) or a place like Cheap Charlies.

ssiguy · #**1748** Posted **Jan 2, 2026, 7:35 PM**

Who would even cross the street to go to the Olive Garden little alone go to another country?

Ozabald · #**1749** Posted **Jan 2, 2026, 7:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Who would even cross the street to go to the Olive Garden little alone go to another country?

Go to the Olive Garden in Bellingham and you will find many BC plated vehicles in the parking lot.

manny_santos · #**1750** Posted **Jan 3, 2026, 3:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101

From all my recent travels and shopping I totally agree that malls are doing better overall in Canada. I just mentioned how Asian immigrants are helping to keep our malls alive and we have a much larger percentage of our population of them compared to the states. It's not the only reason but it's something from my personal observations between both countries.

A recent cross-border example I noticed was between Sarnia ON and Port Huron, Michigan. Sarnia's main mall is doing very well and has few empty spaces. Port Huron which is about twice as large as Sarnia has a main mall that is almost dead. There is a Target and a Five Below store that anchor and there are only a small number of stores open with probably 70-80% of the spaces being empty. You can tell that it was once a successful mall. Very few Canadians shop there anymore but even the local population stopped going.

Every mall I've been to in the US this decade has had very noticeable signs of decline with empty spaces, store closing sales and little traffic. In Canada it really depends on the demographics and local population growth-decline but malls overall are not declining nearly as quickly as in the USA.

Last time I went to Port Huron was in 2010, and their mall was doing very well while Lambton Mall in Sarnia was mostly dead. Sounds like there’s been a reversal.

The Canadian dollar was a lot higher at that time as I recall as well.

TorontoDrew · #**1751** Posted **Jan 3, 2026, 4:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Interesting. Aside from the plethora of expressways, Port Huron looks and feels much smaller than Sarnia. I would never have guessed the metro to be about 160K...does that include Sarnia?

The main drag of Port Huron (could be Exeter, or Strathroy):

City proper Port Huron was bigger in 1931 than it is today. City proper Sarnia is four times bigger today than it was in 1931.

I wish every town did this with lights at Christmas, it's so old school.

Loco101 · #**1752** Posted **Jan 3, 2026, 8:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Who would even cross the street to go to the Olive Garden little alone go to another country?

In Ontario there are much better Italian restaurants. I think a lot of people like the Olive Garden for nostalgic reasons and that it's a fancier East Side Mario's if unlimited salad and bread are your thing.

Loco101 · #**1753** Posted **Jan 3, 2026, 8:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Last time I went to Port Huron was in 2010, and their mall was doing very well while Lambton Mall in Sarnia was mostly dead. Sounds like there’s been a reversal.

The Canadian dollar was a lot higher at that time as I recall as well.

Everyone in Sarnia has told me about how it has been a reversal. And most of it is because most goods have been cheaper on the Canadian side for the last decade. They only cross the river for things they can't get in Canada for shopping but many are simply just not going anymore due to all the Trump stuff.

MolsonExport · #**1754** Posted **Jan 5, 2026, 5:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Last time I went to Port Huron was in 2010, and their mall was doing very well while Lambton Mall in Sarnia was mostly dead. Sounds like there’s been a reversal.

The Canadian dollar was a lot higher at that time as I recall as well.

seems like it is doing fine: https://lambtonmall.com/map

even kept their Toys R Us (unlike London, where both locations have been shuttered).

Innsertnamehere · #**1755** Posted **Jan 5, 2026, 6:12 PM**

Port Huron is in many ways an exurb of Detroit, and has a lot of large-lot rural properties that inflate the metro population. St Clair County has a population of 160,000, a lot of which is rural.

The City of Port Huron itself has only a population of 28,000 - just 17% of the county population.

The rural area surrounding Sarnia comparatively has a very low population and is mostly agricultural. - 128,000 people live in Lambton County, of which 72,000 live in Sarnia itself (56%).

Innsertnamehere · #**1756** Posted **Jan 5, 2026, 6:24 PM**

A couple of other comments on recent conversations:

Wasn't Pacific Mall historically successful? I haven't gone in it for at least a decade at this point but I recall it doing fairly well in the 2000's and 2010's.

Also - US mall devolvement is much more advanced as the US has significantly more retail space per capita, despite generally similar disposable incomes (the US median household income is ~15% higher than Canada, but has much higher healthcare expenses to contend with).

That extra 6.7 square feet per capita would mean that a City like London would need an extra 3,600,000sf of retail space to match US averages.. That's equivalent to over 5 more Masonville Place malls.

So yes, malls like White Oaks and Masonville can still do well in Canada because they have 40% less competition than south of the border.

Anecdotally I think most of the US "overretail" is actually not in malls but rather in power centres - they have far, far more large-format power centre retail plazas from my experience than in Canada. Malls seem to be generally similar on a per-capita basis to Canada. I think American consumers just prefer power centres (does the better climate influence this?), which are also often struggling, leading to all asset classes underperforming.

It is also interesting to look at the amount of retail Canada and the US have compared to global trends - it really shows how much greater north american disposable incomes are than basically anywhere globally and how dominant large-format power centres are here compared to the rest of the world. Canadian incomes are lower than US

MolsonExport · #**1757** Posted **Apr 9, 2026, 6:05 PM**

the Dead Mall of Owen Sound (Ontario). You can hear how empty it is (get it?)

• Video Link

You know a mall is going down when it hosts a "Northern Reflections"

Let's head on down to nearby Orillia, where things aren't any better.

• Video Link

Both above malls host "Northern Reflections" outlets.

EnvisionSaintJohn · #**1758** Posted **May 20, 2026, 10:39 PM**

A video from Park Barriault of lilparkproductions.

I'm not sure it's entirely fair to call it the deadest mall in all of Atlantic Canada... as I think there are some with higher vacancy rates... It's certainly the deadest "major" mall in any of New Brunswick's "big" cities, and probably has the most vacant space of any mall in Atlantic Canada, especially if we're including the adjacent office tower too, as it's listed in the SSP database.

The tallest and most prominent building on the Saint John skyline sits mostly empty, connected to what only can be described as a dead or dying mall.

• Video Link

It's too bad he didn't get into the office tower, but maybe that will be in the next video.

I think it's a very sad statement on priorities in this city and province, that the tallest, and largest office tower by floor space in the province is sitting mostly empty and unused... especially when we're in the middle of a housing crisis... office tower to residential conversions are possible.

I think the right type of redevelopment for Brunswick Square would be well deserving of government funding and even subsidy if enough affordable units could be created out of this mostly empty office tower and the most dismal sections of this dying mall in the very centre of our city.

I've long speculated that a residential conversion of a large part of the office tower could be just the catalytic project to bring life back into this dying mall... i hope I love long enough to see the day.