Heritage preservation and reconstruction

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Anything would be better than what they had planned to do with it.

Sticking to the same neighborhood, it looks as though 4 Victorian houses on robie and jubilee are being gutted in preparation to be demolished. At least 2 look to be in good condition.

Would these structures have been similar in importance to the one at Dal? Why all of the energy to single Dalhousie out?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Summerville

Sticking to the same neighborhood, it looks as though 4 Victorian houses on robie and jubilee are being gutted in preparation to be demolished. At least 2 look to be in good condition.

Would these structures have been similar in importance to the one at Dal? Why all of the energy to single Dalhousie out?

There have been so many converted to empty lots lately, I've lost track. Don't know why this one in particular got so much attention, perhaps because of Dalhousie's involvement/management or just because it makes an interesting story.

As for the others, unless you live in the area, the only way most people will be aware is if the news media covers it. Otherwise, you just notice that there are more gone the next time you drive by.

Development is great, but the way it goes in Halifax, one can only think that heritage preservation is relatively random, with little to no involvement from the city in trying to sculpt interesting, attractive neighbourhoods with thoughtful development happening in the right places.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Summerville

Sticking to the same neighborhood, it looks as though 4 Victorian houses on robie and jubilee are being gutted in preparation to be demolished. At least 2 look to be in good condition.

Would these structures have been similar in importance to the one at Dal? Why all of the energy to single Dalhousie out?

Old houses usually don’t get enough points for heritage status unless past owners were significant persons. The dal house had history that made it significant enough to fight for.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Summerville

Sticking to the same neighborhood, it looks as though 4 Victorian houses on robie and jubilee are being gutted in preparation to be demolished. At least 2 look to be in good condition.

Would these structures have been similar in importance to the one at Dal? Why all of the energy to single Dalhousie out?

Those ones are being torn down for a 9-storey, 77-unit building that is in permit stage.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Summerville

Sticking to the same neighborhood, it looks as though 4 Victorian houses on robie and jubilee are being gutted in preparation to be demolished. At least 2 look to be in good condition.

This is true, but it’s also the case that Robie is a logical thoroughfare for this kind of density. Not an easy circle to square; hard to prevent the heritage losses while adding the density this area very clearly demands at this point.

I do think that there are so many Victorians citywide that are in poor shape, which contribute little heritage value, that the negative heritage impact of developments like this could be offset if even a handful of those shabby buildings were rehabbed. There was a really good renovation on Gottingen Street over the past few months of this building: the whole facade was stripped bare to add new insulation and windows, then the decorative elements were re-installed, and some new, identical trim was made to replace lost or rotten stuff. It looks excellent now, probably better than ever. It was very extensive.

So this can be done. Imagine 100 vinyl-covered Victorians being given this kind of treatment in high-visibility locations. It would make a real difference.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Good points.

Which one on Gottingen, the green one or the purple one? There are lots of nice little places like those throughout the city that would hugely benefit from some renovation. It just takes some vision (and cash/skills).

It's why it amazes me sometimes how many people see a vinyl-clad box and think it's worthy of being torn down because it doesn't look good today... if some intiatives/incentives were put forward such that some of the uglier Victorians could improve their appearance, there would likely be more attention given to the ones that are getting torn down for "future options". It's easy for investors to buy the crappy looking ones and raze them because people generally don't have the vision for what they could be, and are just as happy to see them gone.

Perhaps if some of the buildings replacing them could actually be an improvement architecturally while adding density, it wouldn't seem to be as much of a loss, but the generic, cheap-looking stuff that's going up all over the city doesn't result in a net improvement over and above being able to cram more people into the same space. IMHO.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

this can be done. Imagine 100 vinyl-covered Victorians being given this kind of treatment in high-visibility locations. It would make a real difference.

I wonder about letting developers contribute in different parts of town if they are tearing down buildings. For example they could simply pay into a heritage fund that owners of historic buildings can tap into for publicly impactful renos.

I think there should be some rebuilt heritage-style buildings as well. If you look at that Gottingen streetscape there are some ugly and relatively low density 80's apartment buildings that could go. Of course the tenants need a new place to live but you manage that by finding them new units before demolishing, perhaps with some landlord subsidy; happens all the time around here and people are often really happy about it. If you allow density in some areas there is capacity to relocate existing tenants and money for rehabs of other buildings. If you try to keep everything to 4 floors this isn't feasible. Halifax developments these days do have this kind of density and scale that should make it pretty trivial to manage a few dozen existing tenants.

Agreed that some areas are suited to major development and density, while others should be heritage districts. Robie is a major corridor and should have high density buildings. It's obviously a big plus if hospital workers who want to live near work can walk there for example, and the local population makes higher-order transit more feasible which in turn will make it practical for those who commute in to use transit. If you go the other direction where you build a million-plus square foot foot facility surrounded by detached houses you will have much worse parking and other issues. And in turn you will see the "Friends" fighting parking garage construction and the like which they encouraged in the first place!

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Which one on Gottingen, the green one or the purple one?

The purple one. It had begun to look pretty beat up, so I was pleasantly surprised to see it get such a thorough makeover.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The purple one. It had begun to look pretty beat up, so I was pleasantly surprised to see it get such a thorough makeover.

Cool, thanks! I’ll make a point of looking for it the next time I am in the neighbourhood.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

... Which one on Gottingen, the green one or the purple one? ...

The purple one, but now it's green, lol. But, a different green (bluey green).

[MastClimberPro]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

The purple one, but now it's green, lol. But, a different green (bluey green).

I live around the corner from this property (in a hertiage house as well on North St) and an interesting side note to this renovation is that in order to do the work NS Power had to be involved due to the proximity of the powerlines out front. I can't remember if the lines were depowered or masked but before a single nail was driven the owners had to shell out $25K for NSPs intervention to make any renovations safely possible. That extra cost alone meant the renovation was delayed by years.

Sidebar:
It is another example of the personal expense incurred by individual property owners to do the sort of work needed to keep heritage properties looking good; the benefit of which is arguably shared by the community. I obviously would benefit greatly by having my home renovated under a more generous or expansive grant program so feel free to take anything I say with a grain of salt, but heritage preservation is something that the community clearly values. Some heritage properties are wrapped up in huge land banks owned by developers, certainly, who have no intention of maintanence or improvement. But many (most?) are owned by indivuals, families or couples who are pleased to preserve the past in the form of their own homes.

Building costs have skyrocketed generally and the vig individual homeowners have to pay to renovate in a way that's sensitive to heritage concerns is not nearly offset by the heritage grants that are currently available. Having NSP take such an outrageous pound of flesh on top of all that is a real kick in the teeth for those of use who take pride in the heritage of the city. Just one dude's opinion.

[Drybrain]

I agree there ought to be more incentives for heritage restoration. I'm a bit stunned about the NSPower costs, though--is it because the owners erected that scaffolding on the facade? (Whenever I've done any kind of renovation like roofwork or tree trimming or anything near my house, NSPower has come to wrap the lines, at no charge--granted, the work I've done has been far less extensive.)

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MastClimberPro

I can't remember if the lines were depowered or masked but before a single nail was driven the owners had to shell out $25K for NSPs intervention to make any renovations safely possible. That extra cost alone meant the renovation was delayed by years.

Thanks for sharing. I am always curious about things like this.

I don't believe that it's economically challenging for people to maintain painted wood shingles and trim in Halifax. The city is much much larger and wealthier than it was when these buildings were first built. I think it mostly has to be other factors like this, or landlords wanting buildings to fall over so they can redevelop.

I think it should be on the municipality and province to fix these issues, and groups like the Heritage Trust and Friends of ____ could play a positive role in raising awareness.

[JET]

Originally Posted by MastClimberPro

I live around the corner from this property (in a hertiage house as well on North St) and an interesting side note to this renovation is that in order to do the work NS Power had to be involved due to the proximity of the powerlines out front. I can't remember if the lines were depowered or masked but before a single nail was driven the owners had to shell out $25K for NSPs intervention to make any renovations safely possible. That extra cost alone meant the renovation was delayed by years.

Sidebar:
It is another example of the personal expense incurred by individual property owners to do the sort of work needed to keep heritage properties looking good; the benefit of which is arguably shared by the community. I obviously would benefit greatly by having my home renovated under a more generous or expansive grant program so feel free to take anything I say with a grain of salt, but heritage preservation is something that the community clearly values. Some heritage properties are wrapped up in huge land banks owned by developers, certainly, who have no intention of maintanence or improvement. But many (most?) are owned by indivuals, families or couples who are pleased to preserve the past in the form of their own homes.

Building costs have skyrocketed generally and the vig individual homeowners have to pay to renovate in a way that's sensitive to heritage concerns is not nearly offset by the heritage grants that are currently available. Having NSP take such an outrageous pound of flesh on top of all that is a real kick in the teeth for those of use who take pride in the heritage of the city. Just one dude's opinion.

We had the exterior of our 1905 house done, there was scaffolding and NSP wrapped the lines, at o cost to us. Two years ago we had our electric service upgraded for a heat pump, entire cost was under $6,000, including a new exterior stack. No charge from NSP. I doubt the accuracy of the huge NSP charge that you mention.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by JET

We had the exterior of our 1905 house done, there was scaffolding and NSP wrapped the lines, at o cost to us. Two years ago we had our electric service upgraded for a heat pump, entire cost was under $6,000, including a new exterior stack. No charge from NSP. I doubt the accuracy of the huge NSP charge that you mention.

I had a similar experience with NSP and agree with what you stated. They may have paid $25K for something, but it wasn't to get the power lines wrapped for safety.

That image shows a very funky arrangement of wires coming into that building, like what you see in some developing countries.

[MastClimberPro]

Originally Posted by JET

We had the exterior of our 1905 house done, there was scaffolding and NSP wrapped the lines, at o cost to us. Two years ago we had our electric service upgraded for a heat pump, entire cost was under $6,000, including a new exterior stack. No charge from NSP. I doubt the accuracy of the huge NSP charge that you mention.

I don't doubt the sum. Due to the nature of my work I encounter the impediment of power lines constantly. The costs to developers to get work done in the proximity of high voltage lines is significant (and the delays onerous). And not all lines are created equal nor is the infrastructure flat. I have been on side streets where NSP has been easily able to re-route and depower certain lines with lower costs associated. In other instances those options are either unavailable or more complicated and the costs rise. But it does seem as though there are lines where either the intensity of the voltage or the significance to the grid is such that the challenges of creating a contidion where people can safley work within 10' are higher than other instances. I faced the same challenges getting work done further down Barrington at the Velo, and similarly on the J2K build on the Bedford highway at the bottom of Flamingo.

[Wannabe Economist]

Indeed having the lines that go into your home wrapped is free. However, the cost here was likely to deal with the lines running along the poles right out front rather than the connection to the house. The cost to do anything to the high voltage lines is insane and 25k doesn't surprise me. In suburban areas the poles are far enough away from the houses that the high voltage lines running between the poles pose no risk but in urban areas where the poles are so close to the facade it's way more dangerous to have workers working on the front of buildings with power lines right behind them. IIRC it's not permitted to work within 10' of the live high voltage lines.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

The purple one, but now it's green, lol. But, a different green (bluey green).

Who’s on first?!

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Who’s on first?!

LOL - we can always adopt the same naming conventions we do for bridges.

The Old Green Old House v. the New Green Old House

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Wannabe Economist

Indeed having the lines that go into your home wrapped is free. However, the cost here was likely to deal with the lines running along the poles right out front rather than the connection to the house. The cost to do anything to the high voltage lines is insane and 25k doesn't surprise me. In suburban areas the poles are far enough away from the houses that the high voltage lines running between the poles pose no risk but in urban areas where the poles are so close to the facade it's way more dangerous to have workers working on the front of buildings with power lines right behind them. IIRC it's not permitted to work within 10' of the live high voltage lines.

Yes... Provincial Labour laws mandate safe distance from power lines... some lines are higher voltage than others and require further distance. If NSP's infrastructure is close enough to cause a safety issue, it's apparently the property owner's responsibility to make it safe, which may include de-energizing the line, which can require adding transfer switches, traffic control, etc. Presumably working on/near a major artery like Gottingen would increase costs and may require after-hours work or overtime to mitigate impact to vehicular traffic.