Our Sinking Cities

kingkirbythe.... · #1 Posted **May 1, 2022, 6:24 PM**

Report: Houston is one of the fastest sinking cities on Earth, could 'disappear'

https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/ar...0-17130571.php

Some of the world’s largest cities, including Houston, are sinking faster than sea levels are rising, according to a report from the World Economic Forum. There are 33 cities worldwide which are sinking at rates of more than one centimeter per year, which is five times the rate of sea level rise, the report said.

Houston is the 10th fastest sinking city in the world with a rate of 1.95 centimeters per year. The Southeastern Texas city is the only place in the Western Hemisphere included in the top 10 fastest sinking cities. The city sinking the fastest is Tianjin, China at a rate of 5.22 centimeters per year.

...

However, subsidence can not be reversed, according to the World Economic Forum. It can be slowed down, though, through measures such as reducing groundwater usage. In Jakarta, for example, rules and policies limiting the use of groundwater reduced subsidence from 28 centimeters a year to three centimeters a year.

Coastal cities around the globe are sinking

The subsidence renders coastlines even more vulnerable to rising seas

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...ce-rising-seas

Coastal cities around the globe are sinking by up to several centimeters per year, on average, satellite observations reveal. The one-two punch of subsiding land and rising seas means that these coastal regions are at greater risk for flooding than previously thought, researchers report in the April 16 Geophysical Research Letters.

llamaorama · #2 Posted **May 1, 2022, 6:38 PM**

Houston's problem is that it's suburbs are mostly unincorporated and make use of something called a Municipal Utility District or MUD to provide services. These are quasi-governmental entities authorized by the state legislature to provide limited public services to residents who pay them property taxes. They are usually suburban or exurban locations. Along with Emergency Services District they are basically a tool for developers to use in building out lots of greenfield sprawl in areas that aren't in the city.

This is just my personal theory, but MUD's and the conservative Texas state government are the real culprit behind Houston's sprawl and general "unfriendly" feeling built environment moreso than freeway construction or lack of zoning. Houston is a patchwork of insular housing developments that were never meant to connect together and keep out the riff raff by having no public spaces. And then because these things sort of politically demotivate annexation or incorporation attempts by suburbs, there's no layer of local government to plan anything, build community assets, provide a reasonable level of services, etc.

Dallas Fort Worth's key difference vs. Houston is that the North Texas region had established little farming towns(sometimes connected by interurban railways) like Plano or Arlington that knew the region was about to explode in population and aggressively annexed everything around back them in the 1960s to become "boomburbs". So DFW suburbs are in a city and have city things and are a little more clean.

Anyways, MUD's are all tiny and fragmented and therefore so is the water and wastewater systems of most of the Houston metro area, which therefore has to run on well water directly beneath the ground instead of being able to combine resources together to build reservoirs and long distance pipelines like Houston proper has done.You'll notice in Northwest Harris County every neighborhood with a name like "The Foxchase at Willow Run" will have one of those ball shaped water towers and a small wastewater plant on the edge of the subdivision next to the HOA amenity park.

You suck up all the ground water and a city built on a sandy coastal plain is of course going to sink.

benp · #3 Posted **May 1, 2022, 9:51 PM**

Sea level at Galveston is also rising by about 1 inch per year, so that in conjunction with about an inch per year of subsidence doesn't sound very promising for the area.

Obadno · #4 Posted **May 2, 2022, 3:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by benp

Sea level at Galveston is also rising by about 1 inch per year, so that in conjunction with about an inch per year of subsidence doesn't sound very promising for the area.

Are you sure about 1 inch per year, are we sure its not something like 1cm a year? If sea levels at Galveston were goin up at 1 inch per year we are talking 5 feet since 1960.

I dont think that has happened.

Galveston Harbor 1960:

Today:

https://goo.gl/maps/9WJBXCG66vCMPrtu5

Im not trying to be a dick there is just a lot of hyperbolic nonsense flying around out there about climate change that isn't at all realistic to what's actually happening. If sea levels on the gulf were rising that fast most costal communities with low elevations would already be swamped out at normal high tides

jmecklenborg · #5 Posted **May 2, 2022, 4:41 PM**

Land near coasts gradually rises or falls irrespective of sea level. This happens around the Great Lakes and other lakes as well as the ocean.

iheartthed · #6 Posted **May 2, 2022, 4:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Land near coasts gradually rises or falls irrespective of sea level. This happens around the Great Lakes and other lakes as well as the ocean.

Lakes and rivers, yeah, but not oceans. Lakes and rivers are much more dynamic. If an ocean was rising 1 inch/year it would be catastrophic.

benp · #7 Posted **May 2, 2022, 4:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno

Are you sure about 1 inch per year, are we sure its not something like 1cm a year? If sea levels at Galveston were goin up at 1 inch per year we are talking 5 feet since 1960.

I dont think that has happened.

Galveston Harbor 1960:

Today:

https://goo.gl/maps/9WJBXCG66vCMPrtu5

Im not trying to be a dick there is just a lot of hyperbolic nonsense flying around out there about climate change that isn't at all realistic to what's actually happening. If sea levels on the gulf were rising that fast most costal communities with low elevations would already be swamped out at normal high tides

Ah. My mistake.

The 1 inch per year is for sea level + subsidence at current rate. Measured total change was 18 inches since 1950, but the rate has been increasing over time. Local news articles earlier this year said another 25 inches between now and 2060.

JManc · #8 Posted **May 2, 2022, 5:35 PM**

So...hold out until my house in Kingwood will become beachfront property?

twister244 · #9 Posted **May 2, 2022, 5:52 PM**

The problem with sea level rise is it's not universal, and it's not 1 inch per year. Depending on where you are at, it can be a bit more or a bit less due to factors like thermal expansion. However, unlike Great Lake cities, oceans don't come back down.... they are just slowly going up.

The other problem is the rise is happening on a scale that people don't notice. If it's mm per year.... no one notices, but it does slowly compound over the years. And if you have sinking land coupled to slow continuous rises in sea level, people won't notice the problem until it's too late.

For example, with Miami, one of the problems with the Surfside collapse was salt water getting into exposed rebar, causing massive foundation issues with the building. Yes - It was spawned from neglect, but it did play a role. So, if you have sinking land with slow sea level rise.... In theory, you may have another building collapse at some point in the future as that water just creeps in a little more every year.

And when enough events occur related to it, local economies can react all at once, causing local chaos in real estate, etc.

Yuri · #10 Posted **May 2, 2022, 6:00 PM**

Miami seems particularly vulnerable. New York, for instance, can create artificial barriers on the bay and the sound. Ditto for Boston and Baltimore. What can Miami do, with the ocean in one side, the swamp on the other?

I admit I don't care much about climate change, the subject doesn't interest me that much, but in few decades there will definitely be problems for Miami, New Orleans and apparently Houston.

montréaliste · #11 Posted **May 2, 2022, 6:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuri

Miami seems particularly vulnerable. New York, for instance, can create artificial barriers on the bay and the sound. Ditto for Boston and Baltimore. What can Miami do, with the ocean in one side, the swamp on the other?

I admit I don't care much about climate change, the subject doesn't interest me that much, but in few decades there will definitely be problems for Miami, New Orleans and apparently Houston.

Who knows? There may be a hidden tourist attraction in the sinking bit.

Yuri · #12 Posted **May 2, 2022, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by montréaliste

Who knows? There may be a hidden tourist attraction in the sinking bit.

There's this movie on Netflix in a flooded cyberpunk Miami. I forgot the name, Hugh Jackman is on it. It looks much cooler than the current one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrbanImpact

City of Miami can do the same as New York....Miami is on a Bay and doesn't have many beaches. Miami Beach on the other hand...

I read somewhere the ocean water can rise from below, from the earth due the swamps or something like that.

UrbanImpact · #13 Posted **May 2, 2022, 6:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuri

Miami seems particularly vulnerable. New York, for instance, can create artificial barriers on the bay and the sound. Ditto for Boston and Baltimore. What can Miami do, with the ocean in one side, the swamp on the other?

I admit I don't care much about climate change, the subject doesn't interest me that much, but in few decades there will definitely be problems for Miami, New Orleans and apparently Houston.

City of Miami can do the same as New York....Miami is on a Bay and doesn't have many beaches. Miami Beach on the other hand...

mhays · #14 Posted **May 2, 2022, 6:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrbanImpact

City of Miami can do the same as New York....Miami is on a Bay and doesn't have many beaches. Miami Beach on the other hand...

That's beside the point. In Miami, the water percolates from the ground.

cabasse · #15 Posted **May 3, 2022, 6:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrbanImpact

City of Miami can do the same as New York....Miami is on a Bay and doesn't have many beaches. Miami Beach on the other hand...

isn't the problem for miami related to underground intrusion? you could build a barrier at sea level but that wouldn't prevent water from rising from within.

iheartthed · #16 Posted **May 2, 2022, 7:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuri

Miami seems particularly vulnerable. New York, for instance, can create artificial barriers on the bay and the sound. Ditto for Boston and Baltimore. What can Miami do, with the ocean in one side, the swamp on the other?

I admit I don't care much about climate change, the subject doesn't interest me that much, but in few decades there will definitely be problems for Miami, New Orleans and apparently Houston.

Miami will be the new Venice.

badrunner · #17 Posted **May 2, 2022, 8:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Miami will be the new Venice.

Venice never gets a 28 foot storm surge.

montréaliste · #18 Posted **May 2, 2022, 8:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Miami will be the new Venice.

Looking forward to the day Vegas becomes the new Venice.

bobdreamz · #19 Posted **May 3, 2022, 11:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Miami will be the new Venice.

I've been hearing this for decades now and it still hasn't happened.
Miami sits on a coastal ridge that gets as high as 33 feet above Sea level in parts of the city.
Is Miami prone to flooding?
Yes just like any other coastal city.
Is Miami sinking?
No

MolsonExport · #20 Posted **May 3, 2022, 2:06 PM**

Houston, we have a problem.