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Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 8:28 PM
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Quixote Quixote is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
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Originally Posted by ue View Post
Light rail vehicles and heavy rail vehicles are different. Yes, some HRT vehicles are narrower, but generally speaking, they have higher capacity per train car, and the technology is different (for one thing, it's much older).
What’s the fundamental difference between the two technologies? That’s not a rhetorical question… I really want to know. What extra “equipment” does an EMU have underneath and/or on top (if running on pantographs) that an LRV doesn’t?

A single LRV, at least in LA’s case, is longer (90 feet) than an HRV (75 feet, which is actually longer than most HRVs around the world) and can accommodate as many, if not more passengers. It also is “heavier” by actual weight.

HRT trains have higher capacity because as a service they tend to operate in consists of 5-10 cars — depending on the length of the individual vehicle.

HRT is ultimately about the service, not the vehicles; to me, HRT = rapid transit. As long as it’s 100% grade-separated, can accommodate around 30,000 riders per hour, and is powered by electricity, then it’s a rapid transit (HRT) line. A 900-foot, 10-car LRV train (in theory) that’s fully grade-separated train and has 4-minute headways during rush hour wouldn’t be heavy rail? Yet Cleveland’s Red Line would be?

We've already disputed your claims of grade-separation and frequency being the distinction. LRT is generally in a dedicated right of way not unlike HRT. Frequencies can be greater and trains can run faster than HRT systems (not exclusively - merely it can happen).

So what's left? The rolling stock and how that functions in terms of station design and so forth. If anyone is ignoring anything, it's you - myself and others have clearly destroyed your points and yet you still latch onto your same talking points.
Fully grade-separated, high-frequency trains are considered metro lines, regardless of technology — see Manila (which you ignored) and Vienna U-Bahn’s U6.

When I made the comment about grade-separation and frequency, I was thinking specifically of LA’s needs. You can’t have surface-level trains crossing a busy intersection like Santa Monica/La Brea every 2 minutes during rush hour without creating huge bottlenecks. Grade-separation avoids that problem.

Reading between the lines, when I said that LA needs more HRT lines, I didn’t necessarily exclude LRT trains running in subway configuration. But LA’s LRT lines are limited to 270-foot trains, and as mentioned, it only takes one idiot driver along the at-grade portion to disrupt service across the entire line.
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