[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Mr Roboto

. Theres no defense for it, you cant defend it, so dont bother with your bullshit comparisons of Deerfield and Harper High.

Comparisons? It's almost as if you've never heard someone use a hypothetical before. This is not about comparing those schools, but rather illustrating that the school itself (i.e. building, teachers, administration, etc) has very little to do with the success of the students and that almost all of it has to do with the parents.

And wtf, parental expectations have nothing to do with it? What do you know? Are you a parent? I am, I have a child in CPS. Our expectations have everything to do with it.

Your anecdotal position does not further your argument. Also, no your expectations have nothing to do with it, the amount of time and attention your devote to your children does. Maybe you will commit more time to your children if you have high expectations, but the expectations are not why your kids are excelling, the time you are committing is.

Kids don't do do well because your expect them to, they do well because you help them do well. There are plenty of parents who do a lot of "expecting" and very little helping and the end result is almost invariably under performance among their children regardless of economic class.

Originally Posted by Mr Roboto

Before you respond, let me explain a little more clearly why TUPs idea of swapping asian students with black CPS students and your idea of swapping Deerfield High student with Harper high students is so freaking stupid.

Again, no one is proposing we actually do that, it's a hypothetical. An "if you were to do this" not a "let's do this!"

2. Even if it were possible, what factors are you holding constant? Do the students have the same parents? Do they bring their current parents to the new neighborhood. Do the Deerfield high school kids actually now have to grow up in Englewood for example? With all the same issues of crime/gangs, poverty, drug use, and police brutality, lack of access to quality food etc etc? Because if so, Id call bullshit on your stupid theory and Deerfield High school students would now perform pretty badly in school as well.

Uhh yes they have the same parents, live in the same place, etc, they just now take a bus to Englewood every day. That's exactly the point. Hell, let's say you moved the school and not the kids. Let's say you got a huge helicopter and flew Deerfield High, teachers and all, to Englewood and vice versa. The test scores and graduation rates at Deerfield High would plummet and Harper would be fantastic because the school has almost nothing to do with the education the children are receiving. The same would hold true if you did this for years and years.

4. They actually probably wouldnt perform quite as well given less resources anyway. Why? Because research has shown less resources actually can affect performance. Is it as significant an impact as parenting, home influences etc? Clearly not.

And if you look at the average cost per student of CPS versus the suburbs it becomes quite clear that they are spending about the same per student and getting radically different results. The fact is CPS does not have a lack of resources, bad teachers, bad administrators, or any other problem along those lines. CPS has a parent problem.