Combining MSAs
 

CSAs are too extensive in my view, but sometimes metro populations get "shortchanged" because of commuting patterns separating some counties which should be part of the metro.

My habit is to combine San Francisco and San Jose MSAs as well as add the Inland Empire to Los Angeles when posting stats here.

Other examples are Fairfield County, Connecticut which really belongs in the NYC metro.

I'd like to go the other way and split up MSAs. We think of northern Delaware as its own metro, semi-tied to Philadelphia like Reading or Atlantic City. Philadelphians know more about Atlantic City or Cape May than they do even the closest places in Delaware. But I guess there's a certain number of people in Claymont and Brandywine Hundred that work in Pennsylvania that means we get lumped in. And then Elkton, Maryland, is considered part of the Philadelphia MSA because some people in Elkton work in Newark, and since New Castle County is part of the Philadelphia MSA, then Cecil County, MD gets put into the MSA as well.

There is no truly right way to do it, but I think other measures can be somehow included to more accurately reflect the "sphere of influence" of a city on the surrounding areas.

I'm typically of the opinion that most MSAs need to be trimmed down.

Just look at the absurdity of the Chicago MSA as an example. WTF are Newton and Jasper Counties doing there?


That said, one instance were an MSA boundary is drawn too tightly is Milwaukee. Because Racine county's out-of-county commuters get pulled both north and south into the Milwaukee and Chicago MSAs, it doesn't meet the threshold to be added to either MSA. But in a more normal situation without the 800 lb. Gorilla to it's south, Racine County would almost certainly be added to the Milwaukee MSA.

Boston and Worcester being in separate MSAs is silly. Boston and Providence in separate MSAs? Sure, makes total sense. Sharing a CSA is right. But separating Worcester? Especially when parts of New Hampshire are in the Boston MSA?

You've made this argument before over the years, I don't know why you think MSA's like Chicago are TOO big. Why? What makes that a bad thing and smaller MSA's a better thing? That is counterintuitive.

This is patently false.

People who live in Delaware and Chester Counties are inextricably tied to Delaware. Thousands if not tens of thousands of them work in Wilmington. Almost everyone shops there. Northern Delaware is 15 minutes from Philadelphia city limits. Atlantic City is an hour. Cape May is almost 2 hours.

This is just a ridiculous statement all around.

These MSAs should be combined:

NYC + Fairfield County
San Francisco + San Jose
Detroit + Ann Arbor (maybe also add in Monroe County)
Cleveland + Akron
Raleigh + Durham
Los Angeles + Riverside

I could make a case either way for Baltimore + Washington. These are clearly two very intertwined metros, but they also have two very distinct center of gravities.

Toledo should probably be added to the Detroit CSA. This would likely occur when/if Monroe County is ever added to the Detroit MSA.

Ventura County should also probably be combined with the Los Angeles - Long Beach MSA.

I'd add that unlike Cape May and Reading, Northern Delaware is connected to Philadelphia via SEPTA Regional Rail. And not just a token stop stop either, it runs about 30 miles through the densest part of the state, from Claymont to Newark.

Tampa with Sarasota/Bradenton as well on the South end of Tampa Bay. Looking at them on a map, you would think they were one msa.
https://www.google.com/maps/@27.7323.../data=!3m1!1e3

For Pennsylvania:

• Pittsburgh + Youngstown-Warren-Boardman + Akron + Canton-Massillon + Cleveland-Elyria
  
• Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington + Baltimore-Columbia-Towson + Washington-Arlington-Alexandria + York-Hanover + Harrisburg-Carlisle + Lancaster + Reading + Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton + Trenton-Princeton + Edison + Newark-Union + New York-Jersey City-White Plains
  

This stuff is ridiculous

I agree, it's not just Chicago with far -flung counties added to its metro, that could be said about the majority of Metro areas. Take a look at Atlanta, and even N.Y.C, with over 22 counties, as just a few examples. Chicago's influence is a lot greater than people imagine.

combining MSAs benefits boosterism more than anything else.

Not the case with the SF Bay Area. It acts and functions as one singular area.

Agree with everything here except the Toledo/Monroe County point. Monroe County is very rural near the Wayne County border. Really, most of the county is rural, except for the city of Monroe itself, and the small amount of Toledo sprawl at the southern edge of the county. If anything, Monroe County should be with the Toledo MSA.

And I don't believe Toledo should be added to the Detroit CSA, either. There's a somewhat crazy dividing line between the Ohio and Michigan in metro Toledo. You have pretty extensive, mature suburban development on the Ohio side directly adjacent to farmland across the Michigan border. You can clearly see the pattern here. There is a little bit of sprawl on the Michigan side further east, but it's very limited to a small area between SR 223 and SR 24. I've never really seen a state line act as such a cutoff for development before. Most cities on or near state lines flow pretty seamlessly, but Toledo is almost entirely contained on the Ohio side, despite Downtown Toledo being only ~7 miles from the state line. There's a pretty clear dividing line between Detroit and Toledo, and the space between is virtually empty, so it makes sense for them to remain separated. Certainly less connection exists between those two cities than Cincinnati and Dayton, which are closer together and almost entirely linked by sprawl, but still remain separate CSAs.

Residual effect of the Toledo War?

It's an aburd assertion.

If anything, his statement is Exhibit A why Delaware has the reputation it has locally.

It reminds me of the time years ago when I listened to a woman chastise a store clerk at the Barnes & Noble on 202 in North Wilmington because it had collection jars on its counter for the Primate House at the Philadelphia Zoo, which had just burned down (it was super tragic, if you remember).

She chastised this minimum wage clerk for asking if she wanted to make a donation, to which she replied, "we have our own zoo here in Delaware".

The part of Monroe closest to Wayne County is where the nuclear power plant is located, so that's why it isn't developed. Monroe wouldn't add a meaningful number of population to the Detroit MSA, but it should absolutely be part of Detroit instead of being its own MSA. The entire county's population is about the same as some of Detroit's larger suburbs.

I think Toledo makes as much sense being part of Detroit's CSA as Flint. Maybe even a bit more. A few years ago Toledo was trying to create a commuter rail line to Detroit via DTW.

This paper raises some interesting questions:


https://urbanpatternsblog.files.word...f-problems.pdf

Many people from San Francisco proper might not commute back and forth between San Jose proper and vice versa but tons of people from either MSA commute back and forth.