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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

VivaLFuego Apr 20, 2010 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left of center (Post 4803050)
theres really no need to raise the cost of doing business in the Chicago area (considering its already high in comparison to some sun belt states), especially when cities such as Memphis and Kansas City are beginning to eat into Chicago's dominance as the freight train/air cargo/trucking capital of North America. If the Illinois Tollway Authority doesnt need to raise the tolls, then it shouldnt.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but of course tolls on commercial vehicles have already been hiked dramatically over the past decade, while the tolls for passenger cars have remained pitifully low by any standard.

It's worth noting, too, that uncongested roadways whose demand is managed/suppressed via charging tolls provide a huge economic benefit for businesses operating with any scale... the toll charge is generally money well spent for guaranteed and reliable travel times of goods and services unless the toll is ridiculously high. The fact that I-90 still sees so much congestion is itself a sign that tolls need to rise, at least during peak demand periods, irrespective of the needed reconstruction --- and if the congestion is to be relieved by widening to 4 lanes in each direction, well, that'll need money from a toll hike too.

And this is not even getting into whether an ideal funding source for the RTA would be toll revenue (a reliable and economically rational tax source, to be paired with a decrease in the undependable and fluctuating RTA sales tax), a la the New York MTA where the bridges and tunnels cross-subsidize transit service. Will never happen, of course, but hey, we can dream...

Taft Apr 20, 2010 6:29 PM

The new L cars have been spotted in the wild.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/rede...ew-l-cars.html

One bit I found interesting:

Quote:

Bombardier Transportation, which manufactures the cars, said 20 to 30 more passengers could be squeezed into the new cars compared with the current cars, according to the Tribune.

But CTA spokeswoman Wanda Taylor said capacity will be the same because the cars are the same size; they simply have been reconfigured.
I really don't understand the CTA's rationale here. How is it possible that these cars, with less room being taken up by seats and more open area for standing passengers, will hold the same amount of passengers as the old cars? Especially during rush hour, when people are pushing to get onto the cars, you'd think that at least a few other people could pack in.

Is this a PR move by the CTA? Or is their rationale sound?

Ch.G, Ch.G Apr 20, 2010 6:35 PM

^ Or is she just an idiot?

mwadswor Apr 20, 2010 7:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G (Post 4803887)
^ Or is she just an idiot?

:tup:

We have a winner!

Taft Apr 20, 2010 7:35 PM

Tracy Swartz (the RedEye's transit columnist) got the scoop straight from the CTA press office:

Quote:

"The fact sheet containing specs for the new rail cars lists the number of people the cars will hold based upon a mathematical calculation.

The industry standard for calculating the number of standees is 1 ½ square feet per person based upon the square footage of the rail car.

This is a theoretical calculation that doesn’t take into account that people are different sizes and shapes.

Using the rail car length and width, the total number of customers both seated and standing using this calculation is 123.

As the rail cars in the CTA’s fleet are the same size, technically the same number of people are able to board the cars.

In the new cars, however, the wider aisles allow better flow of traffic and provide more space for backpacks, luggage, bikes and strollers.

In addition there now are two wheelchair positions where the seats flip up to allow a secure position for mobility devices.

Some of the older cars do not have flip seats."
Not sure I agree with the "industry standard" calculation on this one...though I guess it makes sense from an average capacity standpoint. When these cars get crowded at rush hour, though, I'm guessing 1.5 sq. ft. per passenger is an overestimation.

ardecila Apr 20, 2010 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left of center (Post 4803050)
theres really no need to raise the cost of doing business in the Chicago area (considering its already high in comparison to some sun belt states), especially when cities such as Memphis and Kansas City are beginning to eat into Chicago's dominance as the freight train/air cargo/trucking capital of North America. If the Illinois Tollway Authority doesnt need to raise the tolls, then it shouldnt.

The tolls on trucks have already been raised, which they should be, given the disproportionate effect that truck traffic has on the condition of roads.

Raising the tolls on standard motorists using I-Pass is what's being discussed. The increase in cash tolls a few years ago was a stick to push people into adopting the I-Pass, and it worked spectacularly, but now with so many drivers paying the lower toll, the net revenues aren't enough for the tollway's needs.

I wonder if the collections expenses of the Tollway have gone down with Open Road Tolling and increased I-Pass usage? There are far fewer tollbooth operators, far fewer coin-counting machines to fix, etc.

ChicagoChicago Apr 21, 2010 2:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 4804228)
The tolls on trucks have already been raised, which they should be, given the disproportionate effect that truck traffic has on the condition of roads.

Raising the tolls on standard motorists using I-Pass is what's being discussed. The increase in cash tolls a few years ago was a stick to push people into adopting the I-Pass, and it worked spectacularly, but now with so many drivers paying the lower toll, the net revenues aren't enough for the tollway's needs.

I wonder if the collections expenses of the Tollway have gone down with Open Road Tolling and increased I-Pass usage? There are far fewer tollbooth operators, far fewer coin-counting machines to fix, etc.

I'd rather see a congestion charge ala London. I'm a firm believer in charging for consumption.

BTW, excellent point on the effect of heavy trucks.

Mr Downtown Apr 21, 2010 3:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 4804228)
Raising the tolls on standard motorists using I-Pass is what's being discussed.

Not according to the tollway authority.

The Illinois State Toll Highway Authority has no plans to increase tolls and has had no discussions about doing so, agency chairwoman Paula Wolff said today.

Wolff also scoffed at reports that the tollway was facing financial difficulties. "Our revenues are right on projection within the budget," Wolff told the Tribune.

Wolff dismissed a story in Crain's that said the Illinois State Toll Highway Authority would need to hike I-PASS tolls in order to pay for repairs on the Jane Addams Memorial Tollway (I-90).

ardecila Apr 21, 2010 11:03 AM

Discussed in the Crain's article. I have no idea what goes on at the Tollway, but I'm sure the idea of raising tolls has been floated.

OhioGuy Apr 21, 2010 12:41 PM

Is construction slated to begin on the Oakton yellow line station in Skokie this year? The wikipedia page says the station is projected to be completed by the end of 2009... obviously it's outdated.

VivaLFuego Apr 21, 2010 3:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy (Post 4805188)
Is construction slated to begin on the Oakton yellow line station in Skokie this year? The wikipedia page says the station is projected to be completed by the end of 2009... obviously it's outdated.

My understanding is that technically everything is ready to go (i.e. 100% engineering drawings complete, all necessary land and permits acquired), but there have been a variety of red tape hangups regarding both the state and federal grants that are programmed to help pay the construction cost. Something regarding needing the federal grant reclassified from one program to another, and of course the standard IDOT backlog which some might remember also delayed the Roosevelt Road Metra Electric station by at least a year.

OhioGuy Apr 21, 2010 9:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 4805357)
My understanding is that technically everything is ready to go (i.e. 100% engineering drawings complete, all necessary land and permits acquired), but there have been a variety of red tape hangups regarding both the state and federal grants that are programmed to help pay the construction cost. Something regarding needing the federal grant reclassified from one program to another, and of course the standard IDOT backlog which some might remember also delayed the Roosevelt Road Metra Electric station by at least a year.

Ok. Thanks. I was just curious if it had finally begun construction. Sounds like it's up in the air when the grants will finally get worked out and construction can commence.

denizen467 Apr 22, 2010 4:16 AM

Speaking of el station projects/proposals, what do people know about the status of these:

--Grand (Red) - They've clogged up State Street for forever now. How much longer?

--Merging Randolph and Madison into Washington/Wabash - Is this a definite go? If so, what is the next hurdle the proposal needs to clear?

--State/Lake - Is the prevailing thinking that this will be refurbished? Or merged or deleted?

ardecila Apr 22, 2010 10:36 PM

A Trib article a few days ago quoted CDOT, saying that renovation of State/Lake is tentatively planned for 2015.

bnk Apr 24, 2010 4:34 AM

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=37947

Durbin spars with House over Illinois' highway funding stake

By: Paul Merrion April 23, 2010

(Crain's) — U.S. Sen. Richard Durbin is in a high-stakes, head-on collision with the chairman of the House Transportation Committee over this year’s federal highway funding, with about $119 million at risk for Illinois.

Illinois’ senior senator and U.S. Rep. Jim Oberstar, D-Minn., are both demanding that the other back down, but Mr. Durbin appears to have the upper hand — at least, for now.

...

ardecila Apr 24, 2010 4:41 AM

Fuck. Illinois needs Oberstar as an advocate if we want to see any progress at all on transit or high speed rail.

Maybe it's just me, but more money flowing to IDOT is not on principle a good thing. Most of it will just go to gold-plating roads downstate anyway. It's not even a good economic solution, since the road-building jobs are temporary.

bnk Apr 24, 2010 4:54 AM

:previous:
I think this justifies Durbins action alone.

Quote:

from the article
Even though Illinois won more than $600 million in earmarks in 2005, including $100 million for Chicago’s Create project to fix rail bottlenecks, Illinois still wound up getting less in transportation funding in the overall bill than it collects in federal gasoline taxes — the state’s prime argument for continuing the same funding level.

“Five years ago, if negotiators looked at the top line of what the states were getting, what’s changed to make that deal different?” said Randy Blankenhorn, executive director of the Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning. “It’s great they give us $100 million for Create, but to turn around and take $120 million away is a net loss.”

Illinois currently ranks fifth-worst in the U.S. for its return on federal highway funding, getting back only 92 cents on every dollar it sends to Washington, D.C., according to a CMAP spokesman. That eight-cent gap costs the state almost 40,000 jobs.

Mr. Oberstar’s formula approach would reduce the amount Illinois is currently slated to get by about $119 million, or about 8% of the state’s federal highway funding this year.

...

spyguy Apr 24, 2010 3:38 PM

Cermak-Chinatown renovation

The CTA is using $12.5 million from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) federal stimulus funds to renovate the Cermak-Chinatown station on the Red Line and make the station fully accessible per ADA guidelines.

When this project is complete, customers using the upgraded Cermak-Chinatown will enjoy a bright, new ground-level station house on Cermak, equipped with an elevator to improve access for people with disabilities. Benefits of the project also include the addition of a new, permanent auxiliary entrance at Archer Avenue to provide easier access to and from the northern parts of Chinatown, including Chinatown Square and Ping Tom Park!
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/9...krendering.jpg

ChicagoChicago Apr 24, 2010 8:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnk (Post 4809975)
:previous:
I think this justifies Durbins action alone.

I don't expect that we should get back 100% that we pay in, but to get back 92 cents on the dollar, effectively subsidizing other states to the tune of 40,000 jobs... that's bullshit.

ardecila Apr 24, 2010 10:29 PM

It has nothing to do with whether we "should" get what we pay in. Illinois pays more than we get back because the average Illinoisan earns more than the average American. Since government spending is apportioned (usually) by population and related metrics, and NOT by the wealth of residents, wealthier states will always be subsidizing poorer ones.

Wealthier states also tend to be lean Democratic, which leaves many liberals upset as they see red states being subsidized, but it really has little to do with politics.


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