Big population drops in Los Angeles, San Francisco transforming urban California
From the Los Angeles Times:
Big population drops in Los Angeles, San Francisco transforming urban California BY HAYLEY SMITH, SARAH PARVINI MARCH 25, 2022 5 AM PT Los Angeles and San Francisco saw sizable declines in population during the first year of the COVID-19 pandemic, new census data show, underscoring how California’s housing crisis and other demographic forces are reshaping two of its largest cities. In terms of total numbers, Los Angeles County lost about 160,000 residents — more than any other county in the nation, the data show. But L.A. County has about 10 million people, so the per capita loss was slightly more than 1% compared with 6.7% in San Francisco and 6.9% in New York. “We are in this new demographic era for California of very slow or maybe even negative growth,” said Hans Johnson, a demographer with the Public Policy Institute of California. “And it does have implications for everything in our state — from how we live our lives to which schools are getting closed down to how much capacity we might need for transportation networks, and eventually to housing.” The data, published Thursday by the U.S. Census Bureau, show California as a whole saw a net loss of nearly 262,000 residents between July 1, 2020, and July 1, 2021, with the lion’s share of the losses coming from Los Angeles County: 159,621 people. The second-largest countywide loss in the nation was New York, which declined by about 111,000 residents. The findings paint a picture of a state in flux, with factors such as soaring home prices, dwindling birth rates and more work-from-home options contributing to a population on the move. “This loss that both California is experiencing and Los Angeles County is experiencing are kind of the perfect storm from a demographic perspective, and all the components that lead to population change are all trending in a downward direction for both the state and Los Angeles,” Johnson said. Nearly all of the state’s population loss was driven by domestic migration, data show, meaning most people who are leaving are choosing to go — often seeking more affordable housing and job opportunities, or moving with family. Jena Lords said she and her husband discussed leaving Bakersfield for several years because they were unhappy with the direction the state was going. They decamped to Idaho last year. “The top reason was 2nd Amendment rights,” said Lords, 39. “There’s also the high cost of living, tax fees, regulations.” Lords and her husband both had stints in the firearms industry, she said. To them, it felt as though “the governor didn’t want us to be able to defend ourselves.” The pandemic provided a rare opportunity for the pair to move — Lords had been working remotely as a department coordinator at Cal State Bakersfield and her husband quit his job in November 2020. Last spring, she accepted a position as an administrative assistant at Idaho State University. She and her husband lived in their recreational vehicle for 10 months before closing escrow on a $140,000 home sitting on half an acre of land in Pocatello, about an hour south of Idaho Falls, two months ago. “The hardest thing was leaving our friends and family — and the beach, of course,” Lords said. “It’s amazing, the difference in culture. It’s a real small-town feel.” California overall lost about 367,000 people like the Lords to domestic migration — a number higher than the net loss, which includes gains from births and other sources. Los Angeles lost about 180,000 to domestic migration The census numbers underscore population losses the state has faced in recent years. The state lost a seat in Congress for the first time in history due to sluggish population growth. The Bay Area, where skyrocketing housing costs have long been a major problem, was hit particularly hard. San Francisco lost about 54,000 residents and Santa Clara County — home to Silicon Valley — 45,000 people. But more affordable parts of Southern California, such as Riverside and San Bernardino counties, saw growth during this period, including people coming from other areas. Riverside saw the third-highest population gain in the nation with about 36,000 new residents, following only Maricopa County, Ariz., and Collin County, Texas, according to the data. California was also among the minority to see a “natural increase” in the population, or more births than deaths during that one-year period, the data show. More than 73% of U.S. counties experienced natural decrease in 2021. Yet natural increase is also slowing both nationally and within California. The state reported 91,996 more births than deaths from July 2020 to 2021, according to the census data, but that number was about 262,000 in 2015. And while the state saw a net gain in international migration — about 14,300 people moved to California from abroad — the number is also significantly lower than what it was in recent years. About ten years ago, Los Angeles County received close to 50,000 people through international immigration. This year, the county reported only about 4,000. “All those factors are operating together now in ways that we’ve never seen before,” said Johnson, the demographer. “We’ve had periods with large domestic out-migration, but not at the same time that we saw this big decline in foreign immigration and a slowdown in natural increase. So when you add all those things together, that adds up to population losses both for the state and for Los Angeles that are very, very unusual demographically.” Although the COVID-19 pandemic probably played a role in less immigration, the number of international migrants has been steadily declining for several years, said Paul Ong, director of the Center for Neighborhood Knowledge at UCLA. “It’s a combination of those things, but certainly it was happening before the pandemic,” Ong said. “In some ways, it’s part of what we see historically in terms of immigrants — that they do settle and cluster in a few areas and cities, but over time they move away. And when they move away, they sponsor new relatives coming in further away from the original core.” A shrinking population can have a negative effect on the local economy and can mean fewer skilled workers, Ong said. For some, the decision to leave California grew out of mounting frustration and a desire for change. “I started seeing the homeless population increasing and nothing being done about it,” said former Southern California resident Alfredo Malatesta, who immigrated to L.A. from Peru as a child. “It was starting to remind me of where I left many years before.” He and his wife, Erin, moved from Santa Clarita to Tennessee in 2017, and have taken a shine to rural life outside Nashville. “You feel like everyone is out to screw you in a way in a city like Los Angeles. And for the amount I pay to live here, the taxes, the infrastructure falling apart... everything is just like constantly like you’re getting screwed,” Malatesta, 43, said. After sitting down and mapping out the future, the couple decided they wanted some distance from the “fatigue” they felt in L.A. — and a new adventure with a simpler life. “I kept telling myself that my wife and I can’t live here happily, and the system is counterproductive and not efficient. It’s harder and harder to run a business when these stresses are pressing down on you,” he said. “It doesn’t seem like Los Angeles has an identity anymore.” Link: https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ia-census-data |
I hate these articles.. That was a one year blip due to zero immigration. Im sure LA, NY and SF are back to normal numbers wise right now
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I don't doubt that people left New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco between July 2020 and July 2021. That was peak pandemic, and a lot of people were on the move. All three cities were shut down, and lots of people who could not work remotely--people working in entire economic sectors, such as hospitality--couldn't pay the rent. And New York at that time was especially hard hit in terms of overwhelmed hospitals and morgues.
I myself left San Francisco with my husband just four months prior to the beginning of the period in question. These numbers don't surprise me. |
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Two reasons I see for this:
1) Quality of life. Strung out fentanyl addicts forming tent encampments in playgrounds don’t make for approachable and livable cities. 2) cost of living. On the west coast, it’s become too expensive too fast. Additionally, land entitlement is too costly and takes too long for meaningful increases in housing supply. More is made in entitlements, arbitrage, and impact fees than in actually building affordable market rate housing. |
I can only imagine that for high cost cities, the answer would have to be reduced household sizes and fewer children and roommates, right? It wouldn't make any sense for home prices and rent to be sky high if there was no demand, right? And there would no across-the-board housing shortage if cities were getting less dense in terms of households.
There's probably a point where these types of declines in otherwise healthy cities will slow or stop. Once most of the old building stock turns over. |
immigration and increased deaths for the year with COVID. 2022 data will be key to see if the trend holds or not, I suspect it will not at all.
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Same thing with household creation - households suddenly had a lot more money from saving and government programs.. many probably decided that they could afford to live on their own and just like that, many new households were formed, needing more housing units. COVID is a massive shock to the entire economic system, and we can see ripples of this through almost everything from car shortages, inflation, housing shortages, etc. Consumer demand and spending patterns shifted massively, essentially overnight. The market has to play catchup. |
But cities have been getting expensive for the last 15 years.
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But just about all those bars/clubs/symphony/opera/sports/good restaurants are back and pretty soon your boss may want to see you at least once or twice a week (probably more if you want him to depend on you and consider you promotion material). Time to move back to town and good news! The $3000 small apartment may only be $2800. |
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People left big cities at a point during the pandemic, but a large number of those people came back. Additionally, there was a pause on immigration, which someone already pointed out.
So, if you grabbed those numbers during that time period, and most of those people came back, it all just comes off as pointless. People left. People came back. |
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I left San Francisco the third week of March 2020 not only because everything shut down, but also because everything boarded up. The bars and restaurants were one thing, but when the highrise hotels boarded up, it was a signal that the disruption would be long and turbulent. And so it was.
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California has been hemorrhaging middle class residents for years. Not sure why people are trying to spin this.
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Just came back from a weekend in San Francisco and saw that despite all the news discussed about it here in this forum concerning housing and homeless, it wasn’t that bad. There was a lot of activity in both residential and commercial areas and foreign tourists were present along with the newer transplants and long-time residents.
Like I mentioned in another thread, the built form of SF outside of the core neighborhoods on the NE quadrant maintains high density and walkability while also being fun and simple to drive through. LA could learn a thing or two as well as other American cities trying to reach densities in which public transit and walking is just as viable as driving everywhere. That being said, California has to embrace more urban development. Cities that have lost population during the pandemic will eventually grow again, but hopefully they grow in a way that does retain the working middle class. Fortunately, I feel that SF still retained a bit of its identity within its neighborhoods despite the ongoing gentrification, which seemed to be limited to those newer developments in Mission Bay near Chase Center and Oracle Park. |
"Californian decline" just arrived in Brazil political discourse, specially in the ones happening in the far-right social media.
Interestingly, San Francisco area represented much better this new California stereotype, whereas it was only very few regions that grew faster in the 2010's than it did in 2000's, despite the high prices there. Its GDP is growing continuously at Chinese rates. On the other hand, Los Angeles area and Central Valley population growth plunged in this decade and they're the main responsible for California slow-ish growth. And the main cause is not the "Californian communism", but the ending of Mexican immigration, something that the right section of political spectrum is asking for. Go figure... |
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Whoever was writing headlines in LA Times on 25 March needs to take a long vacation. Population loss is transforming LA and SF? If only. Where are the empty freeways in LA or the urban prairies of the Sunset District of SF? When those things start happening I'll worry about population loss in California.
After 2000 the tech bubble burst, state tax revenues cratered, and there was much talk of California as a failed state. The state budget again took a hit following the 2007/8 real estate bubble, and again more talk in places like the New York Times of the failed state of California. Now we're seeing an explosion in property prices--but also healthy job growth and a massive state budget surplus--and again, California is doomed. It's true that California isn't the population growth juggernaut that it was in the first 80 years of the 20th century. It turns out that California's population growth started to decelerate just about the time that easily developable land ran out in the urban coastal parts of the state. And not coincidentally housing prices in California started to go out of whack at that time also. Of course, housing prices were always relatively expensive in LA and SF, but the difference wasn't the magnitude that it is today. So the slowdown in population growth isn't surprising. LA in particular doesn't appear to be a city in decline. Despite the apparent population loss, there are construction projects all over the city. The downtown skyline is booming. There is no abandonment. In the 1980s LAs population grew by 17% even though greenfield residential development was pretty much at an end. The city grew more crowded as newly arrived immigrant families doubled up in houses and apartments and converted garages. Schools on the east and south sides were bursting at the seams and the school district resorted to year round school to accommodate the growing numbers of students. School enrollments have now subsided and the schools that got built to handle the explosion in student population have excess capacity. I suspect that the pendulum is swinging back as the people in LA's overcrowded neighborhoods leave the city in search of lower housing costs--first to Inland Empire and High Desert, and then to other states. Long story short, there will always be a cottage industry of headline writers signaling California's impending doom. The state has had such an important place in the nation's psyche, that it is just too tempting a target. I also think that as Texas and Florida continue to grow, they will find themselves victims of the same phenomenon. |
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If you've ever been to the Bay Area or checked out a topo map, there's actually a nearly continuous ring of mountain ridges surrounding the inner core. And obviously there's a very large and wide bay, with protected wetlands as well. The only truly large, flat expanse is in the South Bay, in Santa Clara Valley. That's probably why this part of the Bay Area most resembles SoCal. Right now there's still room to sprawl in the outer Bay Area (Dublin/Pleasanton and beyond) out to Tracy, Stockton, and the Central Valley, but there's no more room left in the inner Bay Area so we're finally truly beginning to go vertical. https://media.nationalgeographic.org.../314/31435.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c6/45...4e8ee70d09.jpg |
Would be cool to see how the Bay Area increase its density in this century. With the landscape that exists there and in SoCal, the cityscape in both places could start to look like American versions of Tokyo or Mexico City. Just by rezoning Silicon Valley to allow duplexes and small apartment buildings like in SF and Oakland would do wonders to make that place slightly less expensive.
Also, that map shows how fucking stupid urban sprawl was. Large swaths of developable land in most of our metros are filled with surface parking, strip malls, and SFHs that are now filled with people who have a strong attachment to their low-density living. Nothing is inherently wrong with that, people ( even NIMBYs) deserve to own and protect their real estate properties and communities. However, if a place is growing rapidly with jobs and others moving in to work those jobs aren’t able to simply afford a studio apartment or closet to live in because the existing residents are unwilling to allow even a duplex to be constructed, that’s messed up. Or maybe it’s not. It’s just the new normal people in Silicon Valley and other desirable metros have to deal with. |
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why San Jose does not have a dense cluster of high-rises or is not booming with highrise construction like Austin, TX. I think one of LA and the Bay Area problems (and part of the problem of the US in general) is people prefer single family houses and sprawl. |
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http://www.franciscodacosta.com/arti...opoCreeks.jpeg |
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Austin is pretty much all sprawl too. TX barely has zoning and is super pro-development, but I doubt Austin will see many highrises in the future. It's probably a momentary burst, like when Houston and Dallas came on the scene in the 1980's. |
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Oakland County, MI is structurally semi-dense (streetcar suburbia) along the Woodward corridor, but it's mostly newer suburban and exurban sprawl. |
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https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sa...4d-121.8907041 The weighted density is high. |
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Dallas and Houston had enormous 1980's highrise booms. Since then, very few highrises have been built. Austin currently has an enormous highrise boom, very similar to the 1980's Dallas/Houston scenarios. |
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When you look at the weighted density by municipality, Santa Clara (5,629 ppsm) does come out somewhat ahead of both Oakland (2,446 ppsm) and Macomb (3,249 ppsm). But these are not extraordinarily different numbers, IMO. Especially when you consider that one of the largest municipalities in the country is located in Santa Clara County. |
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And then there's also the airport location. https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Z6t-UcH3T...rtino-0008.JPG https://beta.images.theglobeandmail....w940/image.jpg https://www.eastbaytimes.com/wp-cont...01-3.jpg?w=620 |
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I went up to San Jose for a job offer in 2013. Ten minutes of driving on the 880 (yes, I lived in SoCal...) and the cost to rent a bedroom in a suburban SJ house (between $900 and $1100 at the time) were enough to dissuade me from relocating, but the entire time I was there I couldn't shake the feeling that San Jose (which I thought had a very nice downtown, fwiw) and Silicon Valley in general felt and looked like an upscale Orange County, as absurd as that may sound. There's so much money, power and influence flowing through that valley that for someone like me who wasn't looking to relocate for a tech job (the job offer was for a probation officer position at Santa Clara County), it was hard not to feel out of place. |
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But, yeah, they look and feel very similar. Of course, OC has the coast, home prices that are maybe half that of Santa Clara, and is much less Asian. Santa Clara is probably majority or at least plurality Asian. OC doesn't feel that Asian for CA standards, outside of the northern end of the county around Garden Grove, and obviously Irvine. |
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The parts of SJ I visited and drove through felt like more upscale/richer versions of Westminster, Garden Grove, Santa Ana and Anaheim. Coastal OC (Newport, Corona, Laguna, San Juan Capistrano) is its own thing, not much of an equivalent to that anywhere, but when I lived in Orange County, the majority of my time was spent in inland OC for school and work (City of Orange, Tustin, Santa Ana and Irvine in particular).
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Half Moon Bay and Santa Cruz aren't even in Santa Clara County, for example ;)
Funny, I was thinking about comparisons to SG Valley (El Monte, Monterey Park and Azusa) but didn't say anything. Hell, coastal Bay Area (are Pacific Grove and Monterey part of that?) is so different from coastal SoCal at least in my limited experiences with the Bay Area. |
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This downtown seems pitiful for the largest city of 1 million in the center of the most US prosperous metro area:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jo..._(cropped).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jo..._(cropped).jpg |
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https://c8.alamy.com/comp/AC301W/aer...101-AC301W.jpg |
The airport is right next door to Downtown. I think its even closer than PHX is to Downtown Phoenix.
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