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-   -   Why is American public transportation so poorly funded? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240251)

jtown,man Sep 13, 2019 3:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobdreamz (Post 8684741)
Do people in Tokyo view public transportation through a political partisan lens though like they do in the US? Let's be honest here since funding mass transit in major cities which are mostly liberal seems to be a thorn in the side of conservatives.

I would guess the answer is no for Tokyo. But even in liberal states with liberal cities transit funding is still weak or poorly spent. I think Atlanta vs GA is probably the best example of a conservative government going against a cities transit needs but then that leaves out places like NYC that need massive upgrades and places like Chicago, both being in liberal states.

Point? Transit is a bipartisan issue. Both suck at it, conservatives just suck more.

SFBruin Sep 13, 2019 8:01 PM

I think that the prime example of a liberal city having trouble getting transportation from a conservative state is Baltimore in Maryland. I read an article once that described a tension between building subways in the city and highways in the outer parts of the state.

Another example might be Milwaukee and Wisconsin in regards to the streetcar and, perhaps, the phantom plan for commuter rail in the region.

Busy Bee Sep 13, 2019 8:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 8685812)
Transit is a bipartisan issue. Both suck at it, conservatives just suck more.



Transit is a bipartisan issue. Both suck at it, conservatives just suck exponentially more.

Fixed

SFBruin Sep 13, 2019 8:58 PM

Is Atlanta particularly liberal?

I know that Georgia as a whole is red, and I assume that Atlanta is more liberal than are the more rural parts of the state, but I don't know how blue/red it is.

Ant131531 Sep 13, 2019 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFBruin (Post 8686527)
Is Atlanta particularly liberal?

I know that Georgia as a whole is red, and I assume that Atlanta is more liberal than are the more rural parts of the state, but I don't know how blue/red it is.

It's liberal enough that they voted for a 6 billion dollar transit plan back in 2016 with a sizable margin.

jtown,man Sep 13, 2019 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFBruin (Post 8686470)
I think that the prime example of a liberal city having trouble getting transportation from a conservative state is Baltimore in Maryland. I read an article once that described a tension between building subways in the city and highways in the outer parts of the state.

Another example might be Milwaukee and Wisconsin in regards to the streetcar and, perhaps, the phantom plan for commuter rail in the region.

Maryland, a conservative state? I've never heard that one. According to Wiki:

Democrats:55%
Republicans:26%

jtown,man Sep 13, 2019 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8686514)
Transit is a bipartisan issue. Both suck at it, conservatives just suck exponentially more.

Fixed

I actually don't mind that edit lol

:cheers:

SFBruin Sep 13, 2019 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 8686629)
Maryland, a conservative state? I've never heard that one. According to Wiki:

Democrats:55%
Republicans:26%

Well, I mean conservative as compared with the city of Baltimore. I'll dig up the article if I can.

SFBruin Sep 13, 2019 11:28 PM

Sorry if that was confusing.

hipster duck Sep 14, 2019 12:05 AM

I never thought American public transit was poorly funded. I think a lot of it is just poorly operated.

If you spend billions of dollars to build a rapid transit line, and then run trains every 15 minutes at peak, you're doing it wrong.

Nouvellecosse Sep 14, 2019 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFBruin (Post 8681568)
I can believe it. I like to think that everything balances out to an equilibrium set roughly by the market, but I guess now you're probably getting the point that it is pointless arguing with a libertarian zealot :D.

I do think, however, that if there was more market pressure in the United States to build transit systems, then there would be the political will to build better ones. If not, then that would mean that our political system is flawed, which is something that I think has yet to be proven.

Not proven that the political system is flawed? It also hasn't been proven that the political system operates similarly to a market. Ironically, one thing that has been proven - or at least widely accepted by economists - is the existence of flaws in the market system, referred to as market failures. I hate to think of anyone as a hopeless case, but I guess I'll have to believe you. :yes:

SIGSEGV Sep 14, 2019 1:18 AM

I wonder to what extent the division of jurisdiction contributes to this.

The Bay Area is the classic example of this, where BART, Muni, SamTrans, VTA, ACTransit, Golden Gate Transit, Contra Costa Transit, ACE, Caltrain, multiple ferry companies, and, to some extent, even Amtrak California all provide transit in the region. Not too mention all the Facebook/Google/whatever buses and The Marguerite and Bear Transit and I'm sure other schools also have bus systems. At least they all take the same fare card nowadays.

RavioliAficionado Sep 14, 2019 2:47 PM

I have to agree with several others here that I think it's more complicated then simply saying transit in the US is underfunded. There is quite a lot spent on transit in the US, it's just that it's not spent very efficiently. If operating\construction prices in the US were the same as they were in other 1st world countries there would be plenty of money to go around. Indeed there probably would be even more money because it wouldn't be such a political issue if it weren't for the constantly blown budgets.

Busy Bee Sep 14, 2019 5:42 PM

Everyone seems to be leaving out one key factor here. In the US we spend unreal amounts of money to have transit "fit" our absurd decentralized land-use, instead of having our land use fit transit. To say this is a fantastically collosal waste of resources is like shooting fish ina barrel.

RavioliAficionado Sep 15, 2019 2:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8687126)
Everyone seems to be leaving out one key factor here. In the US we spend unreal amounts of money to have transit "fit" our absurd decentralized land-use, instead of having our land use fit transit. To say this is a fantastically collosal waste of resources is like shooting fish ina barrel.

That might be true in cities like Seattle where they are building transit well out into the suburbs and getting diminishing returns, but the worst examples of cost overruns are lines in New York City and San Francisco which are all in high density areas, not the suburbs.

jtown,man Sep 15, 2019 3:53 AM

Delete please


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