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-   -   CHICAGO | The 78 Site (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=233449)

Mr Downtown May 15, 2018 3:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left of center (Post 8187799)
Hopefully the planning department sees this as well, and advises Related to allow for additional east-west streets

The Chicago Department of Planning and Development????? Where the "Planning" is silent?

Yes, I'd like to have 14th as well, but the elevation is a tricky matter because the Metra tracks are descending there, so they cross 14th at only about +3. You'd have to dig down to -15 or so to get 14th through. Now you've got 500 feet of 14th that's below ground level, so what kind of streetscape can it possibly have?

Jim in Chicago May 15, 2018 3:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire (Post 8187876)
I don't know if I'm as concerned as you on this Left_of_Center. Spending time in the South Loop and Printer's Row has taught me that there is very little vehicular traffic in that part of the city. Sure, Well st. being connected will add some, but I doubt it's enough to earn the worries you have. I think because of the suburban hell to the east of the location and industrial wasteland just on the other side of the river it'll still be shielded from much traffic. Maybe years down the line when more people know about it, it'll become a shortcut, but I'm not worried. Most people will use public transit and their feet to get there

I'm not sure what you're talking about in terms of the general lack of traffic, but at the moment Clark, Harrison, Polk, etc. is hell on earth traffic-wise. I think much of this is, hopefully, temporary as all the traffic that hasn't been able to enter the loop off of the northbound Ryan for years now has found its way to the Chinatown feeder ramp and them up Clark. There are periods where it can take me 20-25 minutes to get from LSD to the corner of Clark and Harrison.

Kumdogmillionaire May 15, 2018 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago (Post 8188495)
I'm not sure what you're talking about in terms of the general lack of traffic, but at the moment Clark, Harrison, Polk, etc. is hell on earth traffic-wise. I think much of this is, hopefully, temporary as all the traffic that hasn't been able to enter the loop off of the northbound Ryan for years now has found its way to the Chinatown feeder ramp and them up Clark. There are periods where it can take me 20-25 minutes to get from LSD to the corner of Clark and Harrison.

Not the part of the South Loop(outside of Clark) I'm concerned about or that would affect this development really so... Also you are talking East West corridors, which don't feed into this development. Again, irrelevant, as well as talking about how bad rush hour traffic is, being that that's just a Chicago thing and not unique to those streets. Construction on the Jane Byrne is probably responsible for the Polk, Harrison issues anyway. Only Clark would be affected by this change, but for the best, since it wouldn't have to take Wells southbound traffic anymore

ardecila May 15, 2018 4:35 PM

Yeah even if you wanted additional East/west streets, I’m not sure there’s anything to connect to between Roosevelt and 15th. Within the site itself, the park allows for continuous connectivity from east to west, at least for pedestrians.

I think the traffic generated by this new development is entirely contingent on how auto-oriented Related chooses to go. The fact they are willing to spend a 9-digit sum on a new subway station suggests they are serious about transit orientation and low parking ratios.

Obviously there will still be Loop-bound cut-through traffic on Wells through the site, but I don’t see a lot of traffic on the other streets that would justify a full grid or wide collector streets. Compare to Lakeshore East, the internal roads are lightly used because the heavy traffic is routed around the perimeter on Wacker/LSD/Randolph/Columbus. The internal streets don’t form useful through routes, so they only serve vehicles with origins/destinations inside the site. There is a similar situation at the 78 with Clark, 18th, Roosevelt, and the new Wells.

Jim in Chicago May 15, 2018 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire (Post 8188522)
Not the part of the South Loop(outside of Clark) I'm concerned about or that would affect this development really so... Also you are talking East West corridors, which don't feed into this development. Again, irrelevant, as well as talking about how bad rush hour traffic is, being that that's just a Chicago thing and not unique to those streets. Construction on the Jane Byrne is probably responsible for the Polk, Harrison issues anyway. Only Clark would be affected by this change, but for the best, since it wouldn't have to take Wells southbound traffic anymore

Not irrelevant since it is you who mentioned familiarity with Printer's Row which is dead center of the area I'm talking about. Traffic is horrendous, and not just at rush hour.

Kumdogmillionaire May 15, 2018 9:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago (Post 8188847)
Not irrelevant since it is you who mentioned familiarity with Printer's Row which is dead center of the area I'm talking about. Traffic is horrendous, and not just at rush hour.

I guess I've just never noticed this :/ It's always dead when I'm roaming there. I also don't drive almost ever, so that might be a major factor in my selective bias

SolarWind May 17, 2018 2:15 AM

May 16, 2018


Randomguy34 May 24, 2018 2:19 AM

PD submitted on City Clerk: https://chicago.legistar.com/Legisla...vanced&Search=

Highlights
-Maximum 10,000 units (Assuming average 2.5 people per unit, max density is 258,064 ppl/sq mi)
-On average ~0.4 parking ratio
-FAR 5.6
-PD is for phase 1 of the project

Phase 1 consists of new roads, a river wall, and the relocation of the Metra tracks so that Lasalle St can be built on top at a later phase
https://i.imgur.com/YEN8MqP.png

Here's a general idea of the streets planned for the final phase:
https://i.imgur.com/fMjZVoh.png

left of center May 24, 2018 2:58 AM

Interesting, looks like there will be another road connection between (upper) Clark St and LaSalle, aligned roughly with where you'd expect to find 12th Pl. The connections along 13th St and 14th St and LaSalle look to be pedestrian only.

I still think it would be prudent for the planners to put in another street that connects Wells and LaSalle other than just 15th.

Kumdogmillionaire May 24, 2018 2:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left of center (Post 8197782)
Interesting, looks like there will be another road connection between (upper) Clark St and LaSalle, aligned roughly with where you'd expect to find 12th Pl. The connections along 13th St and 14th St and LaSalle look to be pedestrian only.

I still think it would be prudent for the planners to put in another street that connects Wells and LaSalle other than just 15th.

That would cut the park in half... no thanks, I've had enough of that annoying shit at Grant Park

the urban politician May 24, 2018 3:37 PM

The street connections for this site plan are pretty good, all things considered. Certainly better than the shitshow that is Dearborn Park (demolish that place, already!). I'm quite pleased to see this.

kemachs May 24, 2018 4:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolarWind (Post 8190682)
May 16, 2018



Once the 78 comes to life, that 2 story Target is going look like even more of an under-utilization of the intersection. Potential for redevelopment in 10 years, maybe? 20?

Of course the same is true of Dearborn Park, but that one would require the buyout of many property owners...

left of center May 24, 2018 5:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire (Post 8198157)
That would cut the park in half... no thanks, I've had enough of that annoying shit at Grant Park

It wouldn't be cutting the park in half. If the street oriented near 13th was extended eastward to meet Wells, it would only cut off the small northern tip of the park. I think its a fair compromise for accessibility and traffic flow.

Chi-Sky21 May 24, 2018 7:05 PM

I dont think it can be at 13th because of the ramps to Roosevelt. I think you could only really do it at 14th, and if you do that i think you need to make 14th go all the way through to Wabash

left of center May 24, 2018 7:32 PM

^ According to the plans posted by Randomguy, there appears to be an intersection planned for upper Clark a bit north of where 13th St would be on the grid (13th Pl perhaps?) that connects Clark to the to be constructed LaSalle St.

Kumdogmillionaire May 24, 2018 8:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left of center (Post 8198582)
^ According to the plans posted by Randomguy, there appears to be an intersection planned for upper Clark a bit north of where 13th St would be on the grid (13th Pl perhaps?) that connects Clark to the to be constructed LaSalle St.

Making an intersection right before a ramp is kind of an awful idea though...

pilsenarch May 24, 2018 9:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire (Post 8198672)
Making an intersection right before a ramp is kind of an awful idea though...

The intersection, complete with installed traffic signals, already exists (you can even see it in the photo above with jersey barriers in the middle of it)... I would assume that once it is turned on, the signals would be coordinated with Roosevelt...

Kumdogmillionaire May 24, 2018 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilsenarch (Post 8198794)
The intersection, complete with installed traffic signals, already exists (you can even see it in the photo above with jersey barriers in the middle of it)... I would assume that once it is turned on, the signals would be coordinated with Roosevelt...

It being in place doesn't make it any less bad of an idea...

pilsenarch May 25, 2018 12:39 AM

Well, the bottom line is that it was the only possibility of an intersection between Roosevelt and 15th with out some very serious compromises (i.e. tunnels)... it will work fine if the lights are coordinated...

emathias May 25, 2018 1:35 AM

Crain's reports the Related is proposing 10,000 units on-site. With 62 acres, using the downtown unit-to-occupant ratio that's a density of over 150,000 people per square mile. Of course it's only over about a tenth of a square mile, but still - pretty cool.


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