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Dac150 Jan 17, 2010 4:59 PM

When given the size of the physical site, it wouldn’t make sense to build anything but a commercial building. In a sense, this could be considered a case of commercial restoration.

Stratosphere Jan 31, 2010 5:02 PM

Quote:

http://tribecatrib.com/images/storie...pac-update.jpg
A preliminary design of the performing arts center slated to be built at the World Trade Center site.[/b]
Wow! Art? More like a mess. A messy warehouse. Let's stack a whole bunch of carton boxes on top of each other and call it "art".

Lecom Jan 31, 2010 7:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 4652767)
Never question the mind of the artist!

Exactly. He's a gimmicky pop artist, not an architect. Art is open to interpretation, while buildings must relate to the site and address not only their surroundings, but also its interior function. Neither seem to be addressed here. Deconstructed, destroyed imagery of randomly piled boxes is wildly inappropriate at the site of such tragic destruction, and such massing seems really awkward for a building that requires a single large auditorium space. At least Calatrava created a harmonious, dignified public building for the site, unlike Gehry's amateur attempts.

NYguy Feb 2, 2010 1:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lecom (Post 4675667)
Exactly. He's a gimmicky pop artist, not an architect. Art is open to interpretation, while buildings must relate to the site and address not only their surroundings, but also its interior function.

Right. But who's to say that doesn't? We don't know anything about it but what we've seen from that photo. And look at the Beekman tower. Are we to say that the apartments in that tower aren't liveable spaces?

Lecom Feb 3, 2010 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 4677623)
Right. But who's to say that doesn't? We don't know anything about it but what we've seen from that photo. And look at the Beekman tower. Are we to say that the apartments in that tower aren't liveable spaces?

How does Beekman tie into this picture? The apartments are perfectly habiable - if anything, curved interiors add to the spatial experience. What I've seen from that preliminary model though doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Seriously, a space of that shape, with the protruding boxes, looks anything but efficient for a performing arts center, which typically needs a large, uniform central space and service spaces organized around it in a very efficient fashion (a theater is a spectacle machine, and it must function perfectly well, or else organizing something as complex as a theater production would be such a pain in the ass that no theater company would want to bother). I could see that massing work for residential, possibly commercial and hotel, but definitely not office or theater.

NYguy Feb 3, 2010 1:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lecom (Post 4679296)
How does Beekman tie into this picture?

This is how:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lecom
He's a gimmicky pop artist, not an architect. Art is open to interpretation, while buildings must relate to the site and address not only their surroundings, but also its interior function.

The Beekman tower has also been criticized by many like you for your reasons. You say that Gehry is no architect. That's your opinion, and you can have it. So we'll leave it at that, and not to turn this thread into a "who's an architect" thread.

As far as the PAC is concerned, there's a reason Gehry was selected for the job. Personally, I would rather see another midrise on that site. It would have been an ideal location for a hotel, similar in size to the Milineum Hilton. The tower 5 site could also work for a hotel, but really that should be reserved for commercial space.

eaalkaline Feb 6, 2010 4:31 AM

I wonder how much damage one of those trees on the roofs would do to the performing arts center whenever one falls over in heavy winds. :shrug:

I think Gehry, even for himself, may have gotten a little out of hand on this one. But in general I think he's a genius, so I have faith in the final product.

CGII Feb 6, 2010 8:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lecom (Post 4675667)
Exactly. He's a gimmicky pop artist, not an architect. Art is open to interpretation, while buildings must relate to the site and address not only their surroundings, but also its interior function. Neither seem to be addressed here. Deconstructed, destroyed imagery of randomly piled boxes is wildly inappropriate at the site of such tragic destruction, and such massing seems really awkward for a building that requires a single large auditorium space. At least Calatrava created a harmonious, dignified public building for the site, unlike Gehry's amateur attempts.


You really think that of this project? I actually think this is one of his more substantially compelling works. I really find the network of cozy, terraced green spaces along the building a really beautiful gesture. Could you imagine how much fun it would be to explore the building by discovering all of those fun little intimate spaces? It's much more spatial than Beekman, or MIT, or Millenium Park.

I mean, I can understand how one doesn't like Gehry, but he left a huge impact on the trade and really stands against all of the artistic pretense that many accuse him of.

evanmack Feb 6, 2010 3:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lecom (Post 4679296)
How does Beekman tie into this picture? The apartments are perfectly habiable - if anything, curved interiors add to the spatial experience. What I've seen from that preliminary model though doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Seriously, a space of that shape, with the protruding boxes, looks anything but efficient for a performing arts center, which typically needs a large, uniform central space and service spaces organized around it in a very efficient fashion (a theater is a spectacle machine, and it must function perfectly well, or else organizing something as complex as a theater production would be such a pain in the ass that no theater company would want to bother). I could see that massing work for residential, possibly commercial and hotel, but definitely not office or theater.

The Beekman Tower has everything to do with it because it was also designed by Frank Gehry....

Dac150 Feb 6, 2010 4:38 PM

Interesting project and all, but not necessarily appropriate for that land at the expense of replacing a commercial high rise. Let’s not forget that the space lost in 130 Liberty should be restored as well. When you really net things out, it’s the financial district. I think to a degree some are losing sight over that.

NYguy Feb 7, 2010 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dac150 (Post 4685325)
Interesting project and all, but not necessarily appropriate for that land at the expense of replacing a commercial high rise. Let’s not forget that the space lost in 130 Liberty should be restored as well. When you really net things out, it’s the financial district. I think to a degree some are losing sight over that.

It's all within the realm of making Downtown more of a 24-hour destination, or like midtown. It's most important to replace the lost office space, but if they can make room for a performing arts center in the process, I see now harm in it. It's amazing that in a city like New York there isn't one down there (forget about BMCC), but Midtown has been where all the action is. It's also an extension of the Fulton Street corridor, which is supposed to be the spine of this new 24 hour Downtown. I would like if they could at least build the hotel space above the PAC. But between the two sites, 5 WTC most definitely should be the office space.

Lecom Feb 13, 2010 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGII (Post 4685048)
You really think that of this project? I actually think this is one of his more substantially compelling works. I really find the network of cozy, terraced green spaces along the building a really beautiful gesture. Could you imagine how much fun it would be to explore the building by discovering all of those fun little intimate spaces? It's much more spatial than Beekman, or MIT, or Millenium Park.

I mean, I can understand how one doesn't like Gehry, but he left a huge impact on the trade and really stands against all of the artistic pretense that many accuse him of.

I love buildings like that. I spent a semester designing a hotel that worked along very similar principles. However, a hotel or apartment building by definition require multiple units, which might as well be modular. I still do not see how those units can result in efficient, workable PAC spaces. If this were a design for an apartment building by, say, the High Line, I'd be thrilled. However, I'm not sure whether the design works for its intended use and location.

NYC4Life Mar 3, 2010 7:47 AM

NY1

03/02/2010 08:49 PM
Deutsche Bank Deconstruction Back On Track

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3811/13356080.jpg

The agency in charge of bringing down the former Deutsche Bank Building says the project is now on target, three years after the 41 story structure was supposed to be gone. NY1's Rebecca Spitz filed the following report.

The shell that was once the Deutsche Bank building has stood for almost a decade as another awful reminder of the September 11th attacks, when it was riddled with toxic debris from the Twin Towers and human remains. It is half its original height now, whittled away by crews currently working on the 19th, 20th and 21st floors.

"There's always work going on three or four floors below with scaffolding being put around the building and protective work being put around the building. But if you would look at it, you'd see most of the workers standing on the 20th floor now," said Lower Manhattan Development Corporation President David Emil.

Work to take the building down was suspended following the fatal fire in 2007 in which two of New York's Bravest were killed. It also had to wait for contaminants that had peppered the building to be removed. That work was finished last fall, leaving just concrete and steel that is being painstakingly dismantled.

The LMDC says about six stories have come down since demolition resumed in November.

"It has to be done carefully, demolition is super dangerous. What we're trying to do is avoid any other serious accidents," Emil said.



The LMDC made a point of clarifying that it isn't smashing the building down, rather taking it apart carefully. But with 350 pieces of steel per floor, the process could last awhile.

The deconstruction cost is estimated to be close to $300 million, with about a third being offset by an insurance settlement from some of Deutsche Bank's former insurance companies.

"It's good to see there's progress being made. A lot of time we may not realize the complications -- it's not a simple job," said City Councilwoman Margaret Chin.

The LMDC says it's on pace to deconstruct two floors per month, meaning the building would be completely dismantled by the end of 2010.

"We have a lot of skepticism because dates have been missed before," said Community Board 1 President Julie Menin.

The LMDC says as far as it knows, no building in an American urban center has ever been taken down this way.

As the weather improves and days get longer, they also say they may extend work hours to allow for extra organizing and cleanup which should help them get to the finish line on time.



Copyright © 2010 NY1 News. All rights reserved.

winlinmac001 May 1, 2010 4:19 PM

This is perfect! If JP Morgan is no longer interested in the former Deutsche Bank Building Site, you may as well build a second "Freedom" Tower and eureka: Restoration of the Twin Towers--in the most beautiful skyline in the world! =) :cheers:

Get on it! :whip:

:banana:

:tup:

:notacrook:

JSsocal May 1, 2010 7:05 PM

Not gonna happen in so many ways...

Duffstuff129 May 1, 2010 7:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winlinmac001 (Post 4821077)
This is perfect! If JP Morgan is no longer interested in the former Deutsche Bank Building Site, you may as well build a second "Freedom" Tower and eureka: Restoration of the Twin Towers--in the most beautiful skyline in the world! =)

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

No.

Please read up on the design process/planning of the site.

gttx May 1, 2010 8:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lecom (Post 4697102)
I love buildings like that. I spent a semester designing a hotel that worked along very similar principles. However, a hotel or apartment building by definition require multiple units, which might as well be modular. I still do not see how those units can result in efficient, workable PAC spaces. If this were a design for an apartment building by, say, the High Line, I'd be thrilled. However, I'm not sure whether the design works for its intended use and location.

Do you have the same problem with the Pritzker Pavilion at Millennium Park? What about the Disney Concert Hall in LA?

If your issue is with Gehry's style as an architect, that's fine. But come on - the man (really, the firm) has extensive experience designing this type of building. Do you really think they just ignored the acoustic aspect of the whole thing? I understand if you can't wrap your head around how it will work, but you have to assume that they can. They've done it plenty of times before.

NYguy Jun 15, 2010 7:09 PM

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...-rss&FEEDNAME=

NYU to 'zero' in on WTC

By TOM TOPOUSIS
June 15, 2010

Quote:

New York University officials are eyeing lower Manhattan -- including a tower at the World Trade Center -- as part of their 20-year plan to dramatically expand campus housing, classrooms and other services, The Post has learned.

In a letter to the Port Authority and Lower Manhattan Development Corp., NYU Vice President Lynne Brown has requested a meeting with rebuilding officials to determine which downtown sites are available for campus expansion.

The university is planning to add 6 million square feet of new space, about half of which would be built in the college's core area in and around Greenwich Village. But Brown said the university can't meet all of it needs in the historic neighborhood.

"For that reason, we would like to discuss lower Manhattan as part of our exploration of remote sites," she wrote in a letter dated June 11.

Brown cited community officials who have advocated that NYU move into the World Trade Center's yet-to-be-built Tower 5, which is slated for the site of the former Deutsche Bank building now being demolished.

Tower 5 is expected to include 1.3 million square feet of space. The PA is looking for a developer willing to build either an office tower or a combination hotel and housing high-rise on the site after it's cleared by the end of this year, which would fit in with NYU's plans.

"We're certainly willing to meet with NYU and pleased that there is so much continuing interest in the site during its building," said a PA spokesman.

Brown said she wants to meet with LMDC officials to learn about any opportunities available downtown and "to assess whether there is some role that the university can play to help revitalize and diversify the area."

Under NYU's expansion plan, the university's campus would grow by 40 percent over the next two decades.

So far, officials have identified Downtown Brooklyn, a corridor along First Avenue in Manhattan -- near NYU's medical center -- and Governors Island as possible sites for growth.

Sources familiar with the university's plans insist that Tower 5 would not be used to replace a proposed 40-story tower that NYU still wants to build on Bleecker Street, which is the most controversial element of the expansion plan.

Julie Menin, chairperson of downtown's Community Board 1, said a move by NYU to expand in lower Manhattan would find broad community support.

"I raised this idea a number of weeks ago," Menin said. "I'm very pleased they are taking this idea seriously.

"I think it makes sense for a whole lot of reasons. Tower 5 is perfect for them."

uaarkson Jun 15, 2010 8:39 PM

Please be a hotel!

Dac150 Jun 15, 2010 10:15 PM

I don't think 1.3 million sqft of additional new office space would do Downtown any harm. Save the hotels...


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