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Xing Lin Aug 17, 2022 12:05 PM

That 'competition' was more of a public modern art exhibition than anything-- the participants each used the 5WTC site as a way to express their own thesis or statement through some kind of bold visual or metaphor. It looks like there are a few interesting actual designs in there, but the fact that the most widely highlighted ones include a hand-drawn daycare centre and a poorly photoshopped 1WTC and 432PA reflects what the point of the competition was.

I'm happy with this height and design, as one of the last pieces of a unified, coherent WTC. If each WTC tower had tried to outshine its siblings (2WTC included) it would make a mess of the whole thing.

worldtrade2021 Aug 17, 2022 6:52 PM


Originally Posted by MAC123 (Post 9704458)
I can't tell if you're joking or not. Those weren't real redesigns dude.

There's no way of telling that every single of those designs weren't real proposed redesigns.

From earlier:

The 100-percent affordable cause has also been taken up by the architects collective CityGroup and the New York Review of Architecture, which recently released a “Call for affordable visions for 5 World Trade Center.”
They could be very real redesign options if the Port Authority or other developers were to consider a redesign to increase the amount of affordable units in the building. Hopefully that doesn't happen, the current design is imo better than the previous designs and can't really be improved upon.


Originally Posted by Xing Lin (Post 9704469)
It looks like there are a few interesting actual designs in there, but the fact that the most widely highlighted ones include a hand-drawn daycare centre and a poorly photoshopped 1WTC and 432PA reflects what the point of the competition was.

The hand-drawn daycare might reflect efforts to allocate more community facilities (including schools) into 5 WTC or for a drastically alternate design vision for the building and what it is purposed for.

NYguy Aug 17, 2022 7:38 PM


Originally Posted by Xing Lin (Post 9704469)
I'm happy with this height and design, as one of the last pieces of a unified, coherent WTC. If each WTC tower had tried to outshine its siblings (2WTC included) it would make a mess of the whole thing.

Instead, we got a bland complex where nothing is really noteworthy as far as design goes.

worldtrade2021 Aug 27, 2022 5:02 PM

Since Goldman won the election recently, the design of 5 WTC is more likely to be changed now if one of the alternate plans he's pushing has that.

Meanwhile, as of this past week, the marble cladding on the top of the dome on St Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church is nearly finished, and the top marble panels capping the west entrance have been placed. However there still remains a lot of work to be done on the western roof sections and some other parts of the dome with missing marble panels. Over the past few weeks, in addition to placing fixtures along the edges of the dome, there was also landscaping and paving work done on the southern side of the church.

July 13, 2022

August 3, 2022

August 25, 2022

NYguy Aug 27, 2022 5:25 PM

This is a Port Authority development. They’ve issued the design guidelines. No elected official can do anything but complain about it. Even if they could, this design wouldn’t hinge on who won an election.

worldtrade2021 Aug 27, 2022 5:41 PM


Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 9714033)
This is a Port Authority development. They’ve issued the design guidelines. No elected official can do anything but complain about it. Even if they could, this design wouldn’t hinge on who won an election.

That's good to hear. Earlier news made it seem like they would change the entire design to accommodate more residential units, but maybe what is being debated is how much of the existing residential units are permanently affordable, which has more to do with cost of those units and not the overall building design.

A poster on skyscrapercity suggested that construction work on 5 WTC would begin around mid 2023, around July to October.

Whatever is ultimately chosen to be built, it is not likely that construction will get underway until the 2nd and 3rd quarter of 2023, unless they are particularly ambitious about getting started with construction in the first quarter of 2023.

worldtrade2021 Sep 8, 2022 5:56 PM

Earthcam of St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church has been down for a few days now.

However this article says the painted iconography inside the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church is essentially complete.


St. Nicholas WTC: Historic Monument of the Community and the World
September 8, 2022
By Antonis H. Diamataris

The completion of the iconography of the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church and National Shrine at the World Trade Center, as evidenced by the amazing, exclusive, photos we published/posted this week, is now progressing rapidly.

It is indeed miraculous to see Fr. Loukas, a monk of the Holy Xenophon Monastery, a leading Orthodox Christian iconographer, perched high up, turning the lifeless wall into an eternal holy pilgrimage with his brushstrokes.

But also important is the plaque dedicated to the thousands of our fellow citizens who met a bitter death in the destruction of the Twin Towers on 9/11/2001.

The plaque, as we see with great satisfaction, contrary to the fashion of the time, is bilingual, English and Greek, as befits a Greek Orthodox church.

The message begins: “To all those who gave their last full measure – Eternal memory,” and follows with the famous quote from the Evangelist John: “Greater love has no one than this, to sacrifice your life for your friends.” John 15:13.

And below that – how well thought out is this tribute, how harmonious are the texts, worthy of the sacrifices of the dead – is a passage from the great Funeral Oration of Pericles: “For they gave their lives for the common weal, and in so doing won for themselves the praise that grows not old and the most distinguished of all sepulchers – not that in which they lie buried, but that in which their glory survives in everlasting remembrance.”

The Holy Church of Agios Nikolaos – St. Nicholas at Ground Zero will probably be visited by millions of people who will have the opportunity to read these amazing texts, which honor to the dead.

At the same time, this is also an honor to the Community that founded the original Church of St. Nicholas that was destroyed, as well as to the group of Community leaders who made generous donations and worked very hard for the establishment of this historic project.

We do not overlook that many years have passed since the destruction of the Twin Towers and that St. Nicholas, like the rest of the projects in the area, should have been built earlier. We do not overlook that costs have reached very high levels reflecting the situation at our Archdioceses at the time.

However, after the creation of the committee ‘Friends of St. Nicholas’ under the leadership of leading Greek-Americans such as Michael Psaros, Dennis Mehiel, and others and thanks to the fundraising abilities of Fr. Alexander Karloutsos, the project was completed.

And what counts is that what remains, a building that is a monument, a continuation in a way of the masterpieces of ancient Greece and Byzantium and which will be a point of reference for the Community and a pilgrimage for the whole World, Agios Nikolaos, has been completed.
Earlier article:


The Beautiful Iconography of St. Nicholas at WTC Progresses
September 6, 2022
By The National Herald

NEW YORK – Father Loucas, renowned iconographer from Mount Athos, is back up on the scaffolding at the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church and National Shrine at the World Trade Center working to complete its iconography.

Looking like Jesus Christ lifted him up there, his extraordinary tribute is etched in marble eternally on the north side of the Shrine, outside the Nave on the side of the main entrance. This work, which was done by hand and took all summer, was completed this week.

Visitors will also see an eloquent tribute to those who lost their lives on 9/11 – “To all those who gave their last full measure – Eternal memory.” There are also excerpts from Orthodox Christian scripture and Hellenic history.

The beautiful passage from the Gospel of John is quoted: “Greater love has no one than this, to sacrifice your life for your friends.” John 15:13.

The engraving also contains a quote from the great funeral oration of the ancient Greek statesman Pericles: “For they gave their lives for the common weal, and in so doing won for themselves the praise that grows not old and the most distinguished of all sepulchers – not that in which they lie buried, but that in which their glory survives in everlasting remembrance.”

worldtrade2021 Sep 12, 2022 6:28 AM

From the above article:

Some finishing touches are still concluding, including the frontage along Liberty Street beneath an arch in the wall. This will likely serve as a secondary entrance for the facility.

The slender view of One WTC as viewed looking northwest from the southern portion of the WTC site is finally coming into its own as equally imposing, it just needed a finished St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church to frame it properly: just like views of One WTC as viewed from the east at street level have improved with the construction of the PAC.

worldtrade2021 Sep 20, 2022 5:59 AM

St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church is currently expected to open on November 1, 2022


St. Nicholas Shrine Is Lit Up for the First Time – Μ. Psaros Interviewed on National TV
September 11, 2022
By Constantine S. Sirigos
NEW YORK – On the 21st dark anniversary of the terrorist attacks on the Twin Towers, the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church and National Shrine was spectacularly illuminated, the first time on September 11, to pay tribute to the almost three thousand victims on that terrible day.

With a picture of the late Fr. John Romas, pastor of St. Nicholas at the World Trade Center on September 11, 201, holding a cross that survived, Rachel Campos-Duffy began her interview with Michael Psaros that was broadcast by Fox News Sunday morning, marking the dark 21st anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

Campos-Duffy began the segment by noting, “this cross was one of the few things left behind when St. Nicholas church was decimated in the September 11th attacks,” but “the church vowed to rebuild.” She spoke to Michael Psaros, Chairman of the organization Friends of St. Nicholas.

“Michael, it is so great to have you here,” she said. “Tell me – obviously faith was so important in the days after. Not having the church there was probably traumatic for a lot of people. How important was it for you to have it built and consecrated – much the way America wanted to rebuild the towers.”

Psaros said, “Rachel, thank you on behalf of the St. Nicholas Shrine and national church for having us on Fox national TV. We consecrated the church on July 4th for a very important reason. The St. Nicholas National Shrine celebrates the American values of religious freedom and stands as a defiant symbol against the forces of religious intolerance around the world. On that horrific day, 21 years ago, when all of Ground Zero was destroyed, a small Greek Orthodox Church was destroyed along with it. That destruction was caused by an act of religious fanaticism and hatred. In response we have built not just a church, but New York’s only national shrine. And it was built as a symbol of peace and love in response to the act of violence and hatred.”

Psaros continued, “we are so proud! We are going to open on November 1 and the national Shrine is open to people of all faith, of all nationalities, and I invite America and the world on our behalf to please come visit after November 1.”

“It is beautiful. We can see it right here,” Campos-Duffy as she looked out the window onto the site. She declared, “and I will tell you I can’t think of a better symbol, a better church to be right there, next to the Freedom Tower, that celebrates and stands for religious liberty… I’m going to be there.”

Psaros concluded the interview by noting that “the National Shrine is also a symbol of the Resurrection over death, of good over evil, or light over darkness, of peace and love over hatred.”

worldtrade2021 Sep 29, 2022 3:50 AM


Fred Mills: The plan for the affordable units falls under a requirement from the city's mandatory inclusionary housing program. It says that any new development in rezoned neighborhoods must use 20 to 30% of its floor area for affordable properties.

Moses Gates: And that could mean you change a manufacturing building to residential. It could mean that you were only allowed to build a 4 story building here and now you can build a 40 story building here. Whatever it is, that if you do that you have to set aside a portion for income restricted housing, where it's reserved for people making less than a certain amount of money and rents are set at a certain rate and can only increase by a certain percentage each year.

Fred Mills: But some activists are fighting for the skyscraper to be 100% affordable. In fact, the tallest affordable housing structure in the world. They argue that it should be home to those families and survivors affected by the events of 9/11.

Moses Gates: The only way that can happen is if someone bought him out and took ownership of the building and ran that building at a loss. Because you know, if you're going to spend 2 to 3 billion dollars on that structure, you're going to have to come up with a way for the revenue to pay for it.

Fred Mills: Now many elected officials say there is value in adding more affordable units to an area. But they also recognize that subsidizing construction costs might not be the best use of their already limited resources. In recent months, the state government has made several moves on construction and funding for affordable housing developments throughout New York. But these are much smaller and don't face the same obstacles or spotlights as 5 WTC.

Moses Gates: You know there's a real difference between you know a process for figuring out what you want to do with the WTC and a process to see if you want to put up an apartment building in College Point. One affects the neighborhood. The other one really does affect not just the entire city but the region and arguably beyond that.

worldtrade2021 Oct 21, 2022 3:10 PM

Most recent NYC city planning commission discussing 5 WTC, starting around 1:00:00 and ending around 1:24:00

Controversy as PAC developer Perelman weighs in on affordability of 5 WTC

There was an update about what the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox church looks like on this website

No new news since then. Webcams that would show construction on the WTC site have been down or are not updating. It remains to be seen if the church will open on November 1, 2022 as previously announced.

worldtrade2021 Nov 20, 2022 11:01 AM

St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church is unsurprisingly still not complete. However, it seems there have recently been small signs of construction moving further to completion.

October 31 2022

November 18 2022

Night view October 31/November 1 2022

Night view November 18/November 19

This is assuming of course that the panels placed on the top of the dome won't again be removed (which they have been in the past). The western roof terraces still look unfinished.

There is this recent article from commemorating Thanksgiving:

New York, Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church: We enter into the Season of Thanksgiving

Dear Sisters and Brothers in Christ,

With tremendous gratitude to The Friends of Saint Nicholas for their constancy and their faith, we enter into the Season of Thanksgiving preparing to commence the regular liturgical life of the Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church and National Shrine on the Feastday of the Wonderworker of Myra. What a cause for thankfulness, that after twenty-two long years, we are now ready to open the doors to the Shrine for all the world to behold our faith, our traditions, and our beauty.

With the presiding priest of the parish, the Reverend Protopresbyter Andreas Vithoulkas, together with a small staff and the devoted laypersons of the Parish Council, the Saint Nicholas parish that graced Lower Manhattan with prayer and worship will once again take up its rightful place at Ground Zero. The fully functioning Parish will not only bear witness to our Faith and Traditions, but as the National Shrine provide a vital service of religious presence and intercessory reconciliation at Ground Zero. Where so much destruction was wrought out of hatred, Saint Nicholas will be a sacred place of faith, hope, and love for all people who pass through its doors.

We have traveled a long way to get here, to these days when the Eucharist will be continuously celebrated once again “for the life of the world.” And in the midst of our celebrations, there will always be the story of Saint Nicholas, the Hierarch from Asia Minor whose loving ministry has been acknowledged around the world in different forms, preeminently in the figure of Santa Claus. What a gift we have to give to the world, by teaching and preaching the pure Orthodox Faith on this Hallowed Ground, and bringing the true Saint Nicholas, the “Victory of the People,” to life through our mission and service at the rebuilt World Trade Center.

I pray that as we enter this season of Thanksgiving, and indeed preparation through fasting and prayer for the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Flesh, that we all give birth in our hearts to an intense and urgent desire to serve the world through our Saint Nicholas National Shrine. This is where we have a truly national and international opportunity to glorify God and share the riches and treasures of our Orthodox Christian Faith.

With Paternal Love and Blessings,

Archbishop of America
Additionally there is this note suggesting the church will very soon be open for worship services:


The Saint Nicholas National Shrine–
Promises Made, Promises Kept


Dear Supporters of the St. Nicholas National Shrine,

The Friends of Saint Nicholas are so very thankful and proud that our Shrine for the Nation, the resurrected Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, is opening for regular worship, beginning with the Feastday of its Patron Saint. As the last of the Icons are being installed, we know that there is great expectation among the faithful and even the wider New York Community for the full experience of the rebuilt Church and now, a National Shrine.

The Friends of Saint Nicholas made a solemn pledge to God, to our Church, and to ourselves that this holy work would be completed and revealed as the truly historic and magnificent edifice that it is. The Greek Orthodox Community around the country and the world can be proud that the promise that was made in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 – when the smoke still choked eyes and lungs, when the fires still raged below the surface, when the grief and magnitude of the loss still shocked our minds and hearts – the promise has been kept!

The Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church and National Shrine is complete. It will open for regular worship and attendance and for visitors during the Feastday celebrations surrounding December 6th, the Nameday of the Saint. It is a day that has been celebrated in the past at or near the site, but now, it marks the restoration of the Church to the community of Ground Zero.

Saint Nicholas is the promise of faith, the promise that is seen through the eyes of faith. We believed, and we acted. We have always believed that the dawn of the Shrine was just around the corner, and we now rejoice that the sun is shining through the very walls of Saint Nicholas, and will illuminate our beautiful Orthodox faith for all the world to see.

We thank all of you for standing with us and helping to bring the promise to fulfillment. God has been gracious to us, and we pray that we shall always be worthy of your support and your trust.

Χρόνια Πολλά to all!

With Gratitude,

Michael Psaros

Dennis Mehiel
Vice Chairman

Father Alex Karloutsos

worldtrade2021 Dec 6, 2022 1:48 PM

St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church is officially open


New York’s St Nicholas Church opens on patron saint’s day

The Church of Saint Nicholas, which was destroyed in the September 11, 2001, terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in New York, is reopening on Tuesday, the day that its namesake saint is celebrated by the Greek Orthodox world.

The church, which is also a shrine dedicated to the victims of the attack, will resume usual services and parish life after undergoing a massive reconstruction, US broadcaster CBS reported.

Designed by celebrated Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava, the church sits atop Liberty Park overlooking the Memorial Pools and the 9/11 Museum.

Saint Nicholas has been opened for several special occasions over the past few months.

Local News
Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church officially reopens to public after being destroyed on 9/11

By CBS New York Team

NEW YORK -- There's a major milestone Tuesday in the more than two decade rebuild and recovery from 9/11.

The only house of worship destroyed in the 2001 terror attacks is officially reopening in the shadow of the World Trade Center site. 

The new Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church is now also a national shrine. 

Tuesday marks the start of regular services and parish life for the church. 

It's also the first opportunity for the public to go in and see the newly completed interior. 
Recent evening time lapse of church from Liberty Street from 2:40 in 2:56

Construction on all parts of the church still seems incomplete, since there are still missing panels on the western dome, work on the roof still looks incomplete with equipment laying around, the eastern stairway leading up to the church from Greenwich Street is still not open to pedestrians that aren't construction workers, and machinery, barriers and construction vehicles on Liberty Street still haven't completely cleared out.

Image from first article of missing panels on western dome

Approximately 8:30 am eastern December 6, 2022

The newly opened church is one block east of the original church's location.


Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church officially reopened one block away from its original location. This time as a national shrine. 
The church's address is 130 Liberty Street just like the address of the former Deutsche Bank building was. Still, the newly built church is slightly north of where the former Deutsche Bank building was and 5 WTC is planned to be built at the site of the former Deutsche Bank building.

GeneralLeeTPHLS Dec 6, 2022 8:43 PM

It's great to see the church has reopened here. Hopefully we'll see WTC tower 5 rise in a few years, along with (of course*) WTC tower 2.

worldtrade2021 Dec 13, 2022 6:06 AM


‘We Are Demanding a Pause’

December 7, 2022 By Matthew Fenton
Affordability Advocates Rally to Delay Agency Vote on Five World Trade Center

A rally to demand a larger-than-planned number of affordable housing units at the last remaining development parcel in the World Trade Center complex drew elected officials and community leaders to the steps of City Hall on Monday morning. The Coalition for a 100 Percent Affordable Five World Trade Center voiced opposition to a plan for predominantly luxury housing at the site, and support for a grassroots vision to create apartments for mixed-income residents, including survivors of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

Vittoria Farrielo, a leader of the group, said, “this month, we expect the Port Authority [the government agency that has control of the site] to vote on a plan that will allow for only 25 percent affordable housing at Five World Trade Center. This 25 percent would get us 330 homes, at a maximum. But Lower Manhattan has lost thousands of affordable units in the years since September 11, 2001.”

City Council member Christopher Marte said, “we are demanding a pause on this upcoming vote and that the Port Authority come back to the table. We need to build the maximum amount of affordable housing Downtown. Every year that we lose affordable units in Lower Manhattan makes this community much whiter, much richer. When the City is trying to use racial justice as a narrative to rezone neighborhoods, we see our city, state, and federal governments take no action to build affordable housing in Lower Manhattan for people who desperately need it.”

Community Board 1 chair Tammy Meltzer observed, “the Mayor keeps saying he wants New York to be a city of ‘yes.’ We want this to be the community of ‘yes.’ Yes, this building can be built with affordable housing. Yes, it can be maximized. Yes, we have people living in Lower Manhattan who are not billionaires and millionaires. And yes, this community should be accessible for all of us, whether you work as a barista, or recently passed the bar exam.”

The focus of this campaign is the proposal, approved in 2021 by the Port Authority and the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation (another state agency), to erect a 900-foot-plus tower on the publicly owned vacant lot that occupies the three-quarter-acre block bounded by Greenwich, Albany, and Washington Streets, and Liberty Park. This plan calls for a 78-floor building, including 69 floors of rental units, comprising 1.2 million square feet of residential space. Of the 1,325 apartments planned for the structure, 25 percent (or approximately 330 units) will be permanently affordable homes, set aside for households earning less than 50 percent of the area median income (AMI), or below $51,200 for a family of three.

The Coalition for a 100 Percent Affordable Five World Trade Center was formed in response to this plan. “The goals of our coalition are to make sure that tower built at Site Five of the World Trade will be a fully affordable building, with a preference given to September 11 survivors, first responders, and their families,” explains Ms. Fariello.

The plan approved by the Port Authority and the LMDC is predicated on a policy axiom dictating that the site must generate as much (or more revenue) on a per-square-foot basis as the office developments that have been erected elsewhere within the complex. This arbitrary requirement effectively renders it administratively impossible that Five World Trade Center be dedicated to any public service purpose that does not maximize financial return.

Such a policy is contradicted by multiple other nearby uses. The leases granted by the Port Authority and LMDC to the National September 11 Memorial & Museum, the Ronald O. Perelman Performing Arts Center, and the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church and National Shrine (all located within the World Trade Center complex) rent many acres of publicly owned land—worth hundreds of millions of dollars—at a price of one dollar per year to each of the non-profit organizations that operate those facilities.

The Coalition for a 100 Percent Affordable Five World Trade Center has engaged a team of urban planning consultants who have devised a program that envisions a slightly smaller building at the site, combined with multiple tiers of affordability (including units set aside for low-income, moderate-income, and middle-income residents) that would need very little subsidy from taxpayers. But such a plan would require waiving the demand for any residential building on the site to generate as much income as an office tower.

worldtrade2021 Jan 7, 2023 9:25 PM

Looks like they finally fixed the lighting panel on the western part of the dome on St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church. Northern stairway appears to be open too, but with work continuing on the southern garden area. The western part of the roof still looks incomplete compard to the eastern part of the roof.
Also if the 5 WTC project is delayed, don't blame Silverstein:

Larry Silverstein follows @NYCMayor at NYU real estate conference, says among other things that the progressive city council “hinders the hell out of him.”

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