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Duffstuff129 Mar 22, 2009 1:09 AM

Can we change the title of the thread to " New York | 5 Wtc | Ft max. 900| Floors" since in accordance with the master plan this tower must stay under 900 feet.

It's a small change but we might as well make it now.

Also: I liked the old design and as NYGuy said, it made a nice gesture towards 4WTC, bringing the whole "downward/upward (depending on how you look at it) spiral" to a nice conclusion/ beginning.

NYguy Mar 22, 2009 11:55 AM


Originally Posted by Duffstuff129 (Post 4153023)
Can we change the title of the thread to " New York | 5 Wtc | Ft max. 900| Floors" since in accordance with the master plan this tower must stay under 900 feet.


MercurySky Mar 27, 2009 7:59 PM

I think this building should be similar to either building 7 or 4. It is somewhat a mystery.

philvia Mar 29, 2009 2:08 AM

well they removed most of the plywood that was wrapped around the building... which means its clean and ready!

NYguy May 3, 2009 11:09 PM

Edward Cwik

NYguy May 7, 2009 8:13 PM

Deutsche Bank Building Deconstruction Delayed. Again.

By Eliot Brown
May 7, 2009

Once again, deconstruction of the former Deutsche Bank building across from Ground Zero has been delayed. Now, according to a status update from the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, the tower is on pace to be down by January 2010, three months later than the last schedule.

The new delay is the latest turn in what has become an ongoing menace of a project—one that has taken far longer than officials or construction industry executives ever imagined. First begun in 2005, the tower was on track to be down by early 2008. Initial work proved more regulation-heavy than first imagined, and then a fire in August 2007 that killed two firefighters stopped work for months. A new, more lengthy deconstruction plan followed, though it has taken far longer than initially scheduled.

The most recent delay comes as a result of a small electrical fire, which shut work down at the building in early April.

“Bovis [the contractor] estimates that as a result of the electrical incident, deconstruction will not resume until mid-July 2009,” the LMDC wrote in its status update, emailed yesterday. “We have directed Bovis to take all appropriate action, including adding additional work shifts to the job, to enable them to resume deconstruction sooner.”

It will take an estimated six months to bring down the tower once deconstruction begins (the contractors are currently doing abatement work). Should it go past January, it would seem to delay the Port Authority’s schedule, as the agency needs the site cleared so it can build a Vehicle Security Center.

NYguy May 12, 2009 12:14 PM


May 12, 2009

With a glut of commercial office space and the financial industry in meltdown, the Port Authority is actively looking to develop World Trade Center Tower 5 as a luxury hotel and residential building, The Post has learned.

A hotel and residential tower would rise at the current site of the Deutsche Bank building and would replace an earlier plan to sell the site to JP Morgan Chase, which had sought to build a financial tower with trading floors bulging off its upper stories.

Sources familiar with the bi-state agency's plans say the market for a luxury hotel and apartments has emerged as a stronger bet than holding out for a commercial tenant, now that JP Morgan is out of the picture.

"Basically, it's what the market will bear; that's the whole point of this," said a downtown official familiar with the plan for Tower 5.

The PA's latest plans for Tower 5 are actually the same tactic the agency pursued in 2006, after taking control of the Deutsche Bank site and the Freedom Tower in a deal that left developer Larry Silverstein with just three towers.

The agency had initially sought to sell the development rights for a residential building. But that plan changed as the demand for commercial space soared.

"It's back to the future," one downtown observer said of the move back to a hotel and residential tower.

The PA for months has been pushing to downsize the amount of office space that will be built at the World Trade Center for fear that there wouldn't be enough tenants for all five towers.

A PA proposal to delay construction of two of Silverstein's three towers on Greenwich Street and replace them with low-rise retail buildings has put the agency at loggerheads with the developer.

"The Silverstein team has not wavered on rebuilding the World Trade Center, and we never will," said Janno Lieber, president of Silverstein's World Trade Center Properties.

But PA officials have balked at Silverstein's request for additional help in financing his towers.

A PA spokesman yesterday insisted it's Silverstein's "responsibility is to privately finance and build three towers. The Port Authority's responsibility is to focus public resources on the projects that have the most public benefit."

To get the project back on track, Mayor Bloomberg has called a summit this week of the New York and New Jersey governors, the PA and Silverstein.

ZZ-II May 12, 2009 7:51 PM

good news, a tower 5 simply has to come!

Dac150 May 12, 2009 8:20 PM

This needs to be an office building.

NYguy May 13, 2009 1:08 AM


Originally Posted by ZZ-II (Post 4245944)
good news, a tower 5 simply has to come!

It's not really good news. This would be built no sooner than an office tower. Larry Silverstein has his own troubles trying to build a residential/hotel tower just blocks away.


Originally Posted by Dac150
This needs to be an office building.

That's true. Other than towers 2 and 3 (which the PA doesn't want built for years), this would be the only other option for office space Downtown. You have to wonder if certain factions of the PA don't want Lower Manhattan to rebound to what it was. Afterall, the longer it takes to absorb office space Downtown, the longer it would take for JC to rebound (remember, that wasn't an issue the first time around). On the other hand, if there's nowhere left to build Downtown, Midtown isn't necessarily the next option. Jersey City could be a prime location for the Downtown set.

NYguy May 14, 2009 8:13 PM

Timing, Tenancy May Be Key for Proposed WTC Hotel

May 14, 2009
By: Eugene Gilligan, Senior Editor

With the recession suppressing the need for office space in New York City, planners at the World Trade Center site could be calling an audible. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is now looking at building a luxury hotel and residential building to replace one of the planned office towers.

According to a report in the New York Post, the hotel and residential tower would be built at the site of the Deutsche Bank. The plan for that site was to sell it to JP Morgan Chase, which planned to build a new tower, complete with trading floors. Chase has now abandoned those plans.

As for the hotel option, there is a fair amount of hospitality development planned for Lower Manhattan, according to John Fox, senior vice president of PKF Consulting. A new W Hotel is now under construction near the World Trade Center site, Fox said, that is scheduled to open next year. In addition, Four Seasons announced plans last year to build a hotel on Church Street, to include hotel rooms and condominiums, although Fox said construction has not yet begun.

In the long term, a hotel is probably a good fit for the site, but its success will largely hinge on two factors, Fox said.

One is the mix of tenants in the office buildings that will eventually populate the site. Fox noted that in the early years of the World Trade Center, the towers housed mostly government agencies, tenants that do not generate much hotel room demand. It was only later, when the Twin Towers and surrounding buildings housed more financial firms, that the area became more attractive to hotel developers.

Timing is the other key component. “If the hotel was opening today, this wouldn’t be a good idea,” Fox said. But Fox said a luxury hotel would, at minimum, be ready to open its doors in four years, “and that’s pushing it.” New York City’s hotel market is now seeing both occupancy and room rate declines, with RevPAR down year-to-date about 31 percent, according to figures from Smith Travel Research. But PKF projects New York’s hotel market should start to rebound in late 2010 and 2011, Fox said.

Robert Goodman, senior managing director of FirstService Williams, said he was “very excited” when he read about the proposal, because he believes having a hotel/residential component at the site will attract office tenants.

“It’s very critical that a lively, dynamic work environment be created, and a hotel and residential component will accomplish that,” Goodman said. He noted that having a hotel and residential piece at the site will be attractive to media and advertising firms, and will attract more restaurants and cultural venues to the area. Attracting new types of tenants to Lower Manhattan will be critical, Goodman said, due to the shrinking head count at many financial services firms. “It’s a great coup, if it happens,” he said.

Dac150 May 14, 2009 9:25 PM

The hotel is the easy way out, if you can even call it that. Within the next decade many lease agreements are going to expire, and companies will want new space. The fact that the likes of the WFC are being deemed 'old news' indicates new office space will be desired by those who are hungry for it.

NYguy Jul 16, 2009 8:24 PM


A possible breakthrough in the money talks is not the only hopeful sign at the W.T.C. As we report this week, the Lower Manhattan Development Corp. is looking into jumpstarting the long-ago-proposed, and long-forgotten Performing Arts Center, by moving it to the Tower 5 site. At the current proposed location, the PAC is so far away from construction that no one in power is likely to think it about again for at least five years, if ever.

An arts center will add some hope to a site of such tragedy. It’s not a bad time to dwell on the signs of hope at the World Trade Center.

NYguy Jul 16, 2009 8:34 PM

A little more...

Arts center might swing over to the south side

By Julie Shapiro
July 17 - 23, 2009

The long-delayed Performing Arts Center at the World Trade Center site is making a comeback.

A new proposal would rescue the PAC from the tangle of infrastructure in the middle of the Trade Center site and plunk it down where the Deutsche Bank building currently stands. The move would allow construction on the PAC to begin far earlier than previously contemplated.

“It’s something we ought to consider that could advance [the current] timetable by several years,” said Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, who held a private meeting on the PAC last week. “It’s certainly something I’m glad I was able to put out to the community.”

The arts center was slated to go on the north side of the site, at Vesey and Greenwich Sts. The temporary PATH entrance occupies that location now, so construction on the performing arts center there could not begin until at least 2015, when the new PATH station opens and the temporary entrance is demolished. Some fear it will take even longer.

But the Deutsche Bank site could be available as soon as this winter, when the contaminated skyscraper comes down. The Deutsche Bank site was once earmarked for JPMorgan Chase, which was going to build Tower 5 there, but that deal fell through when Chase acquired Bear Stearns’ opulent Midtown headquarters toward the beginning of the financial meltdown early last year. Since then, the Port Authority has contemplated building a condo-hotel tower on the site, because demand for more offices Downtown is slim.

The impetus for Silver’s meeting came partly from the Lower Manhattan Development Corp., which is working on a feasibility study about moving the PAC to Tower 5. Several people who attended the meeting said the move looked doable, because the two sites are similar in size. It is unclear whether the PAC would be a stand-alone building or whether it would go in the base of a mixed-use tower.

A change to the W.T.C. site’s master plan would require approval from many parties, including the Port Authority, which owns the Trade Center site. Port Spokesperson Steve Sigmund said the Port would look into the move. Two community members who met with Port executive director Chris Ward several weeks ago said he appeared to support finding a new home for the PAC so it could open sooner. Moving the arts building could reduce the complications of building the transit center, which will also be near infrastructure related to the memorial and offices.

The city has not been briefed on the potential PAC move, a spokesperson for the mayor’s office said.

Silver said moving the PAC to Tower 5 has many advantages. In addition to the Tower 5 site being available sooner, the PAC could reuse the Deutsche Bank building’s foundation, saving time and money. Building the PAC on Vesey St., on the other hand, would be more difficult because of the subway running beneath it, along with the other belowground infrastructure.

Saving money is important, because fundraising for the PAC has not begun and it is unclear who will raise the money. The project has received $55 million from the L.M.D.C. but will need a combination of public and private donations to get off the ground.

The building’s design is also unclear. Frank Gehry is supposed to design the building, but his initial idea for a space for two arts groups was deemed too expensive several years ago, forcing one group out of the plan. Fundraising and design plans have continued to be delayed because the construction of the PAC was seen as being very far off.

Silver said the only potential downside of moving the PAC is that it would leave a hole in the Trade Center site near the memorial. Michelle Breslauer, a memorial spokesperson, said it’s important to have culture at the site but she did not take a position on whether the PAC should be moved. Some renderings of the Trade Center site produced by the Port Authority have shown a grassy field in place of the arts center.

Several people said L.M.D.C. chairperson Avi Schick was the one who came up with the idea to move the PAC to Tower 5, but an L.M.D.C. spokesperson declined to comment. Last year, Schick suggested moving the PAC to the Fulton Transit Center, a subway hub that was then stalled and out of money. The community did not support that idea, but there appears to be broad support for this PAC move.

“It’s very exciting,” said Julie Menin, chairperson of Community Board 1. “It’s high time that this occur.”

Menin has long suggested putting some performing arts space in one of the W.T.C. office towers, just to get the PAC off the back burner. Menin said it makes financial sense to put the PAC in the base of Tower 5, because it would save a future developer some money on the building, and the developer could buy naming rights for the center to help fund it.

Joyce Theater, a Soho and Chelsea dance company, is the last remaining tenant slated for the performing arts center, after political pressures pushed out two others and then cost considerations evicted Signature Theatre . Menin would like to see other tenants added, including big names like New York City Opera, which previously tried to move into the W.T.C.

A Joyce spokesperson did not return calls for comment.

Silver said the proposal to move the PAC is still in its infancy, but he will hold more meetings as the details grow clearer.

Michael Connolly, a Community Board 1 member who has been trying to keep the PAC in the limelight for years, was also happy with the recent progress.

“This is really good news,” Connolly said after Silver’s meeting, which he attended. “It’s vital to get the PAC built as soon as possible.”

NYguy Oct 22, 2009 11:30 PM

Deutsche demo could resume Nov. 2

Over two years after a fatal fire halted the demolition of the former Deutsche Bank building, the skyscraper could begin coming down on Nov. 2.

The city Buildings Dept. issued a demolition permit for the 26-story building on Tuesday. In an e-mailed update, the Lower Manhattan Development Corp., owner of the building, said contractor Bovis Lend Lease was mobilizing equipment and “is expected to begin” demolition on Nov. 2.

The L.M.D.C. previously said the building would take six months to come down but more recently officials said they could not put an estimate on the timeline.

“It’s terrific news,” said Catherine McVay Hughes, vice chairperson of Community Board 1. “We hope at long last the building will come down without any more incidents or delays.”

On Aug. 18, 2007, the contaminated Deutsche Bank building across from the World Trade Center site was being simultaneously cleaned and demolished when a worker’s discarded cigarette sparked a blaze that killed two firefighters. The L.M.D.C. finished decontaminating the building earlier this year, clearing the way for demolition to begin soon.

City raises doubts about moving W.T.C. arts building

By Julie Shapiro

Three months after rebuilding officials floated moving the World Trade Center performing arts center to the site of the former Deutsche Bank building, the move looks unlikely to happen.

The move would have allowed construction on the PAC to begin as soon as next year.
In contrast, the current site for the PAC, at Greenwich and Vesey Sts., will not be free until at least 2014, meaning the PAC wouldn’t be able to open until around 2017.

But although the PAC move gained tentative support in the community, changing any piece of the 16-acre World Trade Center puzzle is fraught with political, financial and engineering complications. Most significantly, if the performing arts center (or any other structure, for that matter) is ever going to be built at Greenwich and Vesey Sts., then the construction of the belowground supports needs to begin in the next few months.

The reason for the tight timeline is that the Port Authority is doing its own belowground work in the same area starting early next year, necessitating the shutdown of some PATH train tracks. The supports for the performing arts center ought to be built at the same time, because this may be the only chance to work near the PATH tracks.

“If we don’t take advantage of this opportunity, we believe it will be lost,” said Andrew Winters, director of the Mayor’s Office of Capital Projects.

Since it is so important to build the supports for the PAC soon at Greenwich and Vesey Sts., Cultural Affairs Commissioner Kate Levin said now is not the time to think about moving the PAC somewhere else. Levin and Winters spoke Wednesday at a public hearing on the PAC, held by City Councilmember Alan Gerson.

Another problem with moving the PAC to the Deutsche Bank site is that the Port Authority was supposed to get that site to build Tower 5. In exchange, the Port would set aside land to the north for the memorial and performing arts center. Renegotiating that agreement at this point could be difficult, Levin said.

Still, the idea of putting the PAC on the Tower 5 site is not entirely dead. The Lower Manhattan Development Corp. has been studying the feasibility of the move and will have a report by the end of the year, L.M.D.C. President David Emil said. If the PAC site moved, it could be the base of a commercial or residential tower.

The L.M.D.C. has committed $60 million to the PAC, of which about $8 million has been spent on planning and previous designs, but the arts center will need much more money to get off the ground. The PAC also needs a board or governance structure, along with a design (Frank Gehry will likely be the architect).

Levin said Wednesday that it was too soon to start putting any of that in place, since the site will not be available until at least 2014. Two to three years before then, it will be time to finalize the design, board and fundraising, she said.

Levin also provided details on plans for the PAC, which will be anchored by the Joyce Theater, a dance company. The PAC will contain: a 1,000-seat dance and performance facility, which Levin said the city does not have anywhere else; a smaller theater that could convert to a banquet hall; multipurpose rehearsal spaces; a cafe with a performance space, similar to Joe’s Pub; public spaces for lectures and community meetings; and programs on the ground floor to activate the streetscape.

NYC4Life Oct 23, 2009 12:46 AM

Demo to reseume novemver 2nd, amazing. I thought this article would say: "Demolition finally complete."

NYguy Oct 23, 2009 4:06 AM


Originally Posted by NYC4Life (Post 4519020)
Demo to reseume novemver 2nd, amazing. I thought this article would say: "Demolition finally complete."

Demolition will resume, but as we've seen time and again with this tower, it just doesn't want to come down. I hope there are no more incidents at the site.

Rail>Auto Oct 25, 2009 5:24 PM

I like WTC 5 much better that WTC 4

Dac150 Oct 25, 2009 5:36 PM


Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 4519275)
Demolition will resume, but as we've seen time and again with this tower, it just doesn't want to come down. I hope there are no more incidents at the site.

It’s become such a fixture that I’m almost going to miss it when it finally bites the dust.

One thing’s for sure is that the guests of the new W across the street are going to love opening the curtains to this….:rolleyes:

Dac150 Oct 25, 2009 5:38 PM


Originally Posted by Rail>Auto (Post 4522905)
I like WTC 5 much better that WTC 4

If you’re referring to thin air than you really must not like Tower 4. That ‘step latter’ design that JP Morgan threw out there is old news; a new design hasn’t been released and I don’t expect it to be anytime soon.

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