Newark is almost like another borough of New York City.

Thanks for the lengthy tutorial and analogy, but I lived in the Bay Area for four years and am far from an "outsider".

Your perspective is what it is, and mine is mine. So be it.

That's because it is.


I'm okay with "suburb", "suburban city" or "large town". And I stand by this having visited and stayed in both San Jose and Santa Clara twice within this year.

Fact.

This ^ is 100% on par with my Bay Area experience with regards to each of the three places you mentioned.

Downtown SJ is essentially an overgrown office park. New Haven, CT is arguably more urban.

Same could be said for Bellevue, WA, Plano, TX, Tysons Corner, VA and many other large suburbs (like San Jose). Your point?

My point was pretty clear.

I have a question about Mesa. I know it's a very large suburb with nearly 500,000 people but could it be a stand alone city or is it totally dependent on Phoenix?

Totally dependent on Phoenix. If not for the sprawl in the East Valley, it wouldn't be what it is today.

Population size means they annexed a lot of land. It has nothing to do with its role as a center or not.

SJ's core is a secondary SF-area center like Oakland's core. That would be true even if there was no incorporated City of SJ.

I've heard someone say that San Francisco and Oakland feed off of each other and operate like siblings and San Jose is more like a cousin. Would you agree with that analogy?

So if Hudson County is the de facto 6th borough, would that make Newark the 7th?

;)

I thought Yonkers was the 6th borough? ;) I digress.

Nah, it’s Philly or Miami. NYC has a lot extra boroughs. The transplants establish boroughs wherever they migrate to :D

on the last point, read ‘when wizards stay up late,’ by hafner & lyon for more on the topic. its a wonderful, breezy, can’t put it down history of computing. highest recommendation. :tup:

no, the 7th is broward.

Pretty much. NYC + Hudson County + Newark/Elizabeth probably covers 90% of the contiguous urban core of the New York region. If you add the eastern parts of Passaic County (Paterson, Passaic, etc.), which looks almost indistinguishable from Brooklyn and Queens, you might get to 95%. But unlike Hudson County and Newark/Elizabeth, Passaic isn't connected to NYC by a subway.

I've lived here my whole life and I consider anyone who stayed here for only four years to still be an outsider.

+ LA
+ Charlotte
+ Atlanta
+ Austin

OK, good for you.

Agreed. Oakland and nearby areas would be what Brooklyn and Queens are to Manhattan.

If you combine SF, Oakland and nearby obvious add on’s, the population would be around 1.8 million people. In contrast, there are areas of San Jose that do not seem to tie in with central areas of the city, i.e.; Evergreen, Alamitos, Cambrian Park etc. San Jose would be closer to 600,000 people.

Same with NY, if you add Hudson county NJ, Newark and others you would have like 9.7 million people.